Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2

Moderators: GeorgeMarcus, ken6199, BombsquadSammy, Domejandro, KingDavid, bwgood77, Dirk, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, infinite11285

User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,419
And1: 57,239
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#21 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:48 am

zimpy27 wrote:Made one big shot but has been pretty poor impact wise his entire career. Very skilled and has a beautiful game but he doesn't help the team win as you might expect.



He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
MagicBagley18
Head Coach
Posts: 6,831
And1: 8,334
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#22 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:50 am

Karate Diop wrote:
Lakers LeBron wrote:I can't imagine someone watching that Celtics/Heat game and thinking that Kyrie would be worse than Kemba
Yep. Kemba is just small time. Doesn't get it done down the stretch. We saw Team USA ball hog Kemba tonight and it wasn't the least bit surprising...

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using RealGM mobile app


His best stretch of the game was 4th quarter and overtime where he was 4/8.....let’s make no mistake he’s sucked last night but even in game 7 he started off the 4th with a big momentum 3.

his play is inexcusable past 3 games but a majority of his points came in the stretch last night
User avatar
TheBrooklynKidd
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,803
And1: 2,485
Joined: Jul 31, 2013
     

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#23 » by TheBrooklynKidd » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:53 am

Dupp wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Made one big shot but has been pretty poor impact wise his entire career. Very skilled and has a beautiful game but he doesn't help the team win as you might expect.



He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.


Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.
jirrit
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,451
And1: 3,662
Joined: Mar 01, 2011
Location: Belgium
Contact:
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#24 » by jirrit » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:02 pm

picc wrote:Celtics fans hate Kyrie, so they’ll continue to pretend all the teams problems were solved solely by him leaving and they’re better off with Kemba.

Which of course is ridiculous.


Why is that ridiculous?
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,419
And1: 57,239
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#25 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:06 pm

TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Dupp wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Made one big shot but has been pretty poor impact wise his entire career. Very skilled and has a beautiful game but he doesn't help the team win as you might expect.



He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.


Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.




It’s definitely both and probably more the improvements of the two young stars but they clearly had chemistry issues last season and I think Kyrie was a big part of that. Chemistry issues also probably restricted those two guys a little last season too.
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
Pelly24
Starter
Posts: 2,267
And1: 1,348
Joined: Aug 02, 2016
     

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#26 » by Pelly24 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm

Dupp wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Dupp wrote:

He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.


Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.




It’s definitely both and probably more the improvements of the two young stars but they clearly had chemistry issues last season and I think Kyrie was a big part of that. Chemistry issues also probably restricted those two guys a little last season too.


It just seems like people continue going back to the chemistry part more than they should. Confirmation bias is a very powerful thing. If Tatum and Brown and Hayward were good last year like they are now there probably aren't even that many chemistry issues. Winning kind of cures all. It's just always felt like a such a reach to think Kyrie wouldn't be devastating on this team.

And as for overrated, that's such a ridiculous idea. He's a six-time all-star and two-time all-nba guy who only injuries have prevented from collecting even more accolades but is still only 28. So many people have underperformed in the No. 2 role he played with LeBron (PG, for instance) so you'd think people at least give him credit for that. Then he had better seasons the moment he left LeBron thus destroying any ideas that he needed an all-time great to be elite.

We haven't even seen the best version of Kyrie yet. He could actually lead the nets in scoring this year. His passing gets sharper every year, his aresenal remains the deepest. Just hope he's healthy
MagicBagley18
Head Coach
Posts: 6,831
And1: 8,334
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#27 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:43 pm

TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Dupp wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Made one big shot but has been pretty poor impact wise his entire career. Very skilled and has a beautiful game but he doesn't help the team win as you might expect.



He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.


Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.


Lost in your response is that that growth would never have came with kyrie
celtics543
Starter
Posts: 2,361
And1: 1,654
Joined: Dec 29, 2004
       

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#28 » by celtics543 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:49 pm

Steve Kerr hit a big shot in a Finals game but I don't want him trying to carry my team either.
User avatar
oaktownwarriors87
RealGM
Posts: 11,442
And1: 3,180
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
 

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#29 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:33 pm

tyguy wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:He hasn't been the same since he hurt his back carrying the entire team in 2016.

Woo boy there is still left over salt from 2016?



Me: Compliments players tremendous play in hate thread

RealGM: YOU STILL SALTY BRO!?!?!?
PockyCandy wrote:Is Ball's shot any more ugly than Curry's? Curry just seems to launch it towards the basket like an 8 year old.
FlatearthZorro
RealGM
Posts: 16,884
And1: 8,733
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Location: Somewhere in Boston
     

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#30 » by FlatearthZorro » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:34 pm

Lakers LeBron wrote:I can't imagine someone watching that Celtics/Heat game and thinking that Kyrie would be worse than Kemba


Kemba's decent has been pretty decent, despite him being undersized. Kyrie was absolutely abysmal in the 1 run in the playoffs he had with us, so no idea why anyone would think he'd do better- how's .380 from the field on 21 shots a game sound to you?
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
FlatearthZorro
RealGM
Posts: 16,884
And1: 8,733
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Location: Somewhere in Boston
     

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#31 » by FlatearthZorro » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 pm

nikster wrote:
Lakers LeBron wrote:I can't imagine someone watching that Celtics/Heat game and thinking that Kyrie would be worse than Kemba

He was wrose than that in the Bucks series


He was worse in that entire playoffs run, he shot ~.400 from the field in the Indiana series..
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,419
And1: 57,239
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#32 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 pm

Pelly24 wrote:
Dupp wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.




It’s definitely both and probably more the improvements of the two young stars but they clearly had chemistry issues last season and I think Kyrie was a big part of that. Chemistry issues also probably restricted those two guys a little last season too.


It just seems like people continue going back to the chemistry part more than they should. Confirmation bias is a very powerful thing. If Tatum and Brown and Hayward were good last year like they are now there probably aren't even that many chemistry issues. Winning kind of cures all. It's just always felt like a such a reach to think Kyrie wouldn't be devastating on this team.

And as for overrated, that's such a ridiculous idea. He's a six-time all-star and two-time all-nba guy who only injuries have prevented from collecting even more accolades but is still only 28. So many people have underperformed in the No. 2 role he played with LeBron (PG, for instance) so you'd think people at least give him credit for that. Then he had better seasons the moment he left LeBron thus destroying any ideas that he needed an all-time great to be elite.

We haven't even seen the best version of Kyrie yet. He could actually lead the nets in scoring this year. His passing gets sharper every year, his aresenal remains the deepest. Just hope he's healthy




The team did look a bit dysfunctional Last season though and players have spoken on it too. Stevens coaching looked normal and some times bad for the first tine ever too and there’s the fact that these guys were better as a team and individually the season prior also. I definitely think there’s something there.
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 10,239
And1: 2,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#33 » by DarkXaero » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:17 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Dupp wrote:

He was pretty important that whole series but besides that his skill has always far outweighed his impact.


But the worst thing is the big chemistry issues and dramas he brings. That is pretty evident with how good the Celtics are post Kyrie after swapping him for a worse player.


Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.


Lost in your response is that that growth would never have came with kyrie
There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 10,239
And1: 2,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#34 » by DarkXaero » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:18 pm

celtics543 wrote:Steve Kerr hit a big shot in a Finals game but I don't want him trying to carry my team either.
Did Kerr also average close to 30 PPG in the Finals on good efficiency?
MagicBagley18
Head Coach
Posts: 6,831
And1: 8,334
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#35 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:
Are they really good because they don’t have to deal with Kyrie’s drama? Or is it because the improvements that Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Theiss made were collectively more impactful than the downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba?

Lost in Boston fan’s Kyrie obsession is the much more likely explanation that their success is attributed to two top 3 picks taking leaps in their 3rd and 4th years and a former All-Star recovering from a devastating injury.

You’re right about that series and the playoffs in general. Surprisingly he’s actually 8th all time in Finals PPG.


Lost in your response is that that growth would never have came with kyrie
There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.


1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.
User avatar
infinite11285
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 17,707
And1: 17,368
Joined: Aug 12, 2008

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#36 » by infinite11285 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 pm

GrindCityHustle wrote:Gun to your head, him or Westbrook?


The gun.
DarkXaero
RealGM
Posts: 10,239
And1: 2,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#37 » by DarkXaero » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Lost in your response is that that growth would never have came with kyrie
There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.


1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

1) Everyone failed in Boston last year, Tatum had a very subpar sophomore year, Brown wasn't very good, and you had guys like Rozier & Morris also being detrimental to the locker room chemistry. Kyrie hasn't done anything in our locker room yet, so I don't know what's being insinuated there by us overlooking things.

2) In this case, their relationship starts with basketball, it absolutely matters. They got to know each other being coworkers, and that's how their relationship started. Your personal analogy doesn't apply here.

3) Tatum has taken a huge step this year, that's actually the biggest reason for Celtics improvement. If he performs at this level last season, it would be a very different story. Kyrie deferred to Lebron plenty in Cleveland, and he also took his shots, it worked extremely well. I don't see any evidence that Kyrie would not have worked well with this version of Tatum, especially since Kemba is still getting the ball down the stretch, but not doing much with it. Going from an average player to an All NBA player is a huge leap, and it's what Tatum did from last season to this year. That can't be discounted.

4) That's a very narrow minded view of looking at things and I can do it too: Cavs with Kyrie = championship, Cavs without Kyrie = no championship. That's like removing all the context and circumstance, and putting out a blanket statement.
MagicBagley18
Head Coach
Posts: 6,831
And1: 8,334
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#38 » by MagicBagley18 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:52 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.


1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.

1) Everyone failed in Boston last year, Tatum had a very subpar sophomore year, Brown wasn't very good, and you had guys like Rozier & Morris also being detrimental to the locker room chemistry. Kyrie hasn't done anything in our locker room yet, so I don't know what's being insinuated there by us overlooking things.

2) In this case, their relationship starts with basketball, it absolutely matters. They got to know each other being coworkers, and that's how their relationship started. Your personal analogy doesn't apply here.

3) Tatum has taken a huge step this year, that's actually the biggest reason for Celtics improvement. If he performs at this level last season, it would be a very different story. Kyrie deferred to Lebron plenty in Cleveland, and he also took his shots, it worked extremely well. I don't see any evidence that Kyrie would not have worked well with this version of Tatum, especially since Kemba is still getting the ball down the stretch, but not doing much with it. Going from an average player to an All NBA player is a huge leap, and it's what Tatum did from last season to this year. That can't be discounted.

4) That's a very narrow minded view of looking at things and I can do it too: Cavs with Kyrie = championship, Cavs without Kyrie = no championship. That's like removing all the context and circumstance, and putting out a blanket statement.



Your doing backflips because kyrie deferred to lebron James? Haha. Of course he did. He was never going to defer to a player he deemed wasn’t his equal or younger than him when he was in a mentor role. That’s why tatum has flourished this season because he was thrown the keys and and empowered by kemba and his teammates.

This version of tatum doesn’t happen with kyrie- that’s the whole point and the disconnect you don’t get. Doesn’t mean kyrie sucks and can’t play basketball and won’t work out with KD but when kyrie is the “leader” alpha it won’t work and kyrie knows that that’s why he’s back as the Batman.

This has been talked about ad nauseam....the reality is and it’s fact is that kyrie left and the Celtics got better. The young players got better and the team advanced further than they did with him. kyrie is your problem to have now, enjoy him.
Godsplan
Freshman
Posts: 80
And1: 70
Joined: Aug 03, 2020

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#39 » by Godsplan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:56 pm

Meh... Kyrie role on the Celtics was to be the leader over there, a role I don’t think he’s suited for

Over here in Brooklyn, we want him as a second option. 2 completely different cases and we know what Kyrie could do as a second option.

Also, the most overrated player to some extent has to be Kawhi.
Low raw stats
First FMVP as a 3rd or 4th best player that put up less than 15 points in the first few games
Had a great run in Toronto but was launched over Lebron and other players.
Talked about as being possibly more clutch than Kobe etc etc.
Godsplan
Freshman
Posts: 80
And1: 70
Joined: Aug 03, 2020

Re: Kyrie has got to be the most overrated player Part 2 

Post#40 » by Godsplan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:01 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Lost in your response is that that growth would never have came with kyrie
There's no way of knowing that. Even during this playoffs run for the Celtics, Kyrie has been in touch with Tatum to encourage him, and Tatum considers him a big brother figure. Marcus Smart loves Kyrie as well. You guys need to stop vilifying Kyrie for everything, and acknowledge that there were other major issues with that Celtics team as well.


1) I haven’t villafied kyrie for everything...many issues last year. Kyrie was one of many issues but he failed miserably in Boston. Doesn’t hold all the blame at all but he also can’t be overlooked like many of your fan base Tries to.

2) being friends or a mentor to someone doesn’t correlate to on court production/ cohesion/chemistry or being a leader in the locker room. So that’s cool that him and Tatum talk and that’s nice of kyrie. I have friends I talk to all the time and our my boys but I couldn’t work with them on a day to day basis.

3) there is a way of knowing that because I’m watching it happen live. Tatum has grown exponentially. He’s getting the ball at the end of games down the stretch. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t but he’s learning from it and getting the opportunity. Part of what makes kyrie so good is that he will take the big shot but he also would never ever defer at end of games like kemba would. Brown also made a leap.

4) luck, circumstance, what have you facts are facts. Cavs trade kyrie they still make finals, kyrie gets hurt Celtics still make ECF w/ out him, kyrie leaves Celtics and their in the conference finals without him. That’s a blemish on his resume no matter how you look at it. IT as a starting point guard =ECF, Rozier comes in = ECF , kemba= ECF.


The last part makes no sense to a degree. The main talking about about the 2015 finals is Lebron had no Kyrie or love. When he had both. Kyrie put up 41 in a eliminating game And outperformed the unanimous MVP. Lebron did need him, to say otherwise is ridiculous. They got smoked in the 2018 finals and Lebron has went to 7 other finals in total without Kyrie. That says a lot more about Bron, and a testament to his greatness, than Kyrie To be honest, but suggesting the Cavs didn’t need Kyrie is foolery. Lebron would even tell you that. Stats and numbers/receipts will tell you that. Trying to goalpost move to Lebron making the finals after Kyries trade, ignoring he got swept, is you being insincere as you are claiming dark is.

You have a point about the whole Celtics thing and perhaps Kyrie overall. Then again, nobody looks at Kyrie as a top 5 player. Most people understand his role on a team, atleast where he’s best at. Everybody except the Celtics expecting him to be a leader I suppose. This past season for the Nets was a throwaway season for a reason. Everyone is anticipating KD, not Kyrie. We know his role. You guys didn’t.

That point stands firm. Cavs don’t win 2016 if Kyrie was hurt. No amount of blemishes can take that away. Cavs still making the finals is a testament more so to Lebron, not Kyrie. Cause when KD went to GSW, Bron got smoked with Kyrie and got Swept without him.

Return to The General Board