Jerry West is a GENIUS

Moderators: GeorgeMarcus, ken6199, BombsquadSammy, Domejandro, KingDavid, bwgood77, Dirk, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, infinite11285

Mk0
RealGM
Posts: 12,441
And1: 6,343
Joined: Jul 02, 2010
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#41 » by Mk0 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:07 am

kombayn wrote:OKC is sitting pretty at this point. I'd much rather have paired up SGA, Gallo and keeping our picks with Kawhi.

Dumping that warchest for PG was the issue. Who knows what they could have gotten you before the deadline? Maybe you move half of that for a point guard.

If the Clippers had someone like Dragic it would have made a huge difference.
Mk0
RealGM
Posts: 12,441
And1: 6,343
Joined: Jul 02, 2010
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#42 » by Mk0 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:09 am

lonzo_pelota wrote:clippers could still have sga and should of drafted mpj in 2018

I forgot about this. I thought they were going to draft him.
Spintown
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,847
And1: 2,279
Joined: Sep 09, 2012

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#43 » by Spintown » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:15 am

RaptorsLife wrote:Clippers really about to open up a stadium in inglewood

With no championships
No picks
I doubt Kawhi or pg will be there in 2024 or 2025


In a couple years its going to be the Ballmer Show (the only positive about the team)

I guess when you are filthy rich you can risk investing billions into something you love even if it doesnt give you the return you want.
ClipsFanSince98 wrote: That's the biggest edge the Clippers have. They are filled with junkyard dogs who will have the mental/toughness edge over just about everybody.
User avatar
Carlos_Danger
Junior
Posts: 423
And1: 619
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#44 » by Carlos_Danger » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 pm

The roster is good enough to win a championship. They just need a coach and an offense that doesn't suck.
User avatar
First Step
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,073
And1: 7,431
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
 

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#45 » by First Step » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:55 pm

Patches Perry wrote:
levon wrote:
Patches Perry wrote:You're probably right that his advisement is overstated, but in 2017 the Clippers were racing to the bottom with aging stars and awful contracts, and in 2020 they're championship favorites. I don't have insider evidence of West's exact role in that transformation but it's strange how often his teams are accidentally successful under his consult.

I think you'd have a pretty good record too if all of a team's successes (loosely defined by the way--were the Grizzlies a "success"?) were nebulously linked to your tenure, while none of the failures were attributed to you. I think West is an excellent executive, but at some point we need to stop mythologizing these people.


He's won executive of the year 2x - only executive in history to win with different organizations - once with the Grizzlies and once with the Lakers.

Bryan Colangelo, one of the worst basketball executives to ever get a job, won EOY with the Suns and Raptors.
dautjazz
RealGM
Posts: 11,758
And1: 6,876
Joined: Aug 01, 2001
Location: Miami, FL
 

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#46 » by dautjazz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

Short of a historic 1-3 failure, this team was destined to make the WCF, and may still do it next year. In the end of the day, they never had a team this good, and had hopes. I completely agree, it was WAY too much, but what if it's what it took to get PG13, and a result also get Leonard? On it's own it's a bad trade. You have to also think, what if it works and they win titles and keep the core for like 5 years, then the first round picks are essentially late first round picks. Would you take on a package of the SGA, Gallo, and the 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th picks of a draft for a PG13 + Leonard? I'm pretty sure you'll say no, and PG13 was 3rd in MVP voting in 2019, and Leonard was coming off a Finals MVP performance, so it looked like a no brainer at time. For as good as Gallo was this year, he's hard to depend on because of injuries, and SGA had an incredible improvement and all, but still I'd bite on this. Maybe you can trade PG13 and filler for Embiid or some other disgruntled star.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
User avatar
levon
Head Coach
Posts: 6,775
And1: 10,734
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#47 » by levon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 pm

Dupp wrote:Morris sucks, never liked him. That was a bad trade.


The trade that got them kawhi wasn’t.

Is there evidence PG was a requirement for Kawhi signing? Again, what does it mean for your org if you have to be bent over a barrel for a far lesser player for Kawhi to sign effectively a 2 year deal with you? I don't think it takes a particularly special executive to make the Paul George trade. I think the Thunder have brilliant FO.
Cavsfansince84
Head Coach
Posts: 6,748
And1: 5,218
Joined: Jun 13, 2017
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#48 » by Cavsfansince84 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:45 pm

Can you really blame Jerry for them blowing a 3-1 series lead and multiple 20 pt leads in those games? Should Jerry have been on the court leading them down the stretch or something? People also forget how good PG was his last year in Okc. He was getting legitimate mvp talk all year long(came in 3rd). The price was going to be steep.
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 47,576
And1: 34,627
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#49 » by Raps in 4 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:50 pm

SleepingDragon wrote:
Lawyershawn wrote:The trade was also implicitly for Kawhi Leonard.

It was a good trade. They had a legit shot at a ring.

Kawhi just wanted a 2nd star to play with, PG13 is not the only choice.

Jerry West overpaid for PG13.


Kawhi specifically reached out to PG.
User avatar
Pennebaker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,906
And1: 3,871
Joined: Nov 02, 2013

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#50 » by Pennebaker » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:52 pm

Lawyershawn wrote:The trade was also implicitly for Kawhi Leonard.

It was a good trade. They had a legit shot at a ring.


They actually did not have a legit shot at a ring. I recognized that fact the moment they pinned their title hopes on Paul George being reliable.

West may have also felt that way about George but wanted Kawhi at all cost anyway, so for the Clippers maybe landing Kawhi was their actual primary goal for this entire season.
Image
Drou
Junior
Posts: 429
And1: 356
Joined: Mar 28, 2017

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#51 » by Drou » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:55 pm

Chandan wrote:old fart should just stay in retirement.


Keep it classy :nonono:
europrospect93
Freshman
Posts: 97
And1: 67
Joined: Jul 09, 2018
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#52 » by europrospect93 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:58 pm

Haul for PG was unreal(and would result in GM firing in a vacuum instantly) but if you're in a situation where Kawhi is requesting a big name to come alongside him + you have a decent, young and fairly cheap roster you make that trade imo. They were legit title contenders and will be next season also, with or without additions.

Why sh*t on a guy with such a resume?
User avatar
Hello Brooklyn
Head Coach
Posts: 7,483
And1: 5,392
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#53 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Its idiotic to criticize this trade when it got them Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. Everyone would do it. Are you really pretending you wouldn't do it and allow Kawhi to go to the Lakers?

The Clippers basically had no chance to play together this year because of injuries and the pandemic. Still should have won, but its very plausible that they improve next year.

If they win next year it will all be worth it. I don't blame Jerry West one bit.

Only thing they should change is the coach. Doc Rivers had had enough chances.
HEAT33 wrote:Nets not even the best team in NY without Durant
User avatar
Hello Brooklyn
Head Coach
Posts: 7,483
And1: 5,392
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#54 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:05 pm

Honestly, its mostly Kawhi's fault.

You had a historic Free Agent class and he never did the work to develop relationships with any of those guys. KD, Butler, Kyrie, none of those guys wanted to play with him.

Instead he had to target a player who was already on another team and gut their assets for him.
HEAT33 wrote:Nets not even the best team in NY without Durant
User avatar
levon
Head Coach
Posts: 6,775
And1: 10,734
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#55 » by levon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Its idiotic to criticize this trade when it got them Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. Everyone would do it. Are you really pretending you wouldn't do it and allow Kawhi to go to the Lakers?

The Clippers basically had no chance to play together this year because of injuries and the pandemic. Still should have won, but its very plausible that they improve next year.

If they win next year it will all be worth it. I don't blame Jerry West one bit.

Only thing they should change is the coach. Doc Rivers had had enough chances.

You conveniently ignored the Marcus Morris rental trade. "Basically had no chance to play together": spare me the Docisms.

Pelinka trading the farm for AD, twice the player PG is, was considered a move that anyone can pull since AD tanked his value. Yet the Clippers trading everyone for PG because they couldn't get Kawhi to sign to basically his only viable option (join Lakers, get trashed worse than Durant, otherwise play in Canada) is some kind of no-brainer, 10/10 trade?

This is the kind of benefit of the doubt we afforded the Clippers all year. Guys like West and Doc being media darlings is hindering the ability for the actual Clippers org to make the right evaluations. They drank their own Koolaid.

Kawhi was the best thing to happen to the Thunder.
Doctor MJ
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 42,232
And1: 10,734
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Cali
   

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#56 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:17 pm

Jerry West is literally the guy with the best on-going track record of decision making in the history of the NBA. That doesn't mean everything he's doing is perfect, but if you're looking to tear apart a guy who has been making good decisions in the NBA for 60 years because a move he just made and the NBA world thought was reasonable at the time didn't work out, then you're literally just looking to tear down absolutely everyone whenever you have an excuse to.

This tendency toward gleeful nihilism is just ugly.
Hey: With what's going on in the world, my fuse is shorter than it used to be, and it's leading my lose my cool and then go on self-imposed breaks from things (such as RealGM). Please try to keep it civil, and I'll be looking to do the same.
CelticsFTW
Junior
Posts: 369
And1: 297
Joined: Nov 20, 2013
 

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#57 » by CelticsFTW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:19 pm

SleepingDragon wrote:
Lawyershawn wrote:The trade was also implicitly for Kawhi Leonard.

It was a good trade. They had a legit shot at a ring.

Kawhi just wanted a 2nd star to play with, PG13 is not the only choice.

Jerry West overpaid for PG13.


"Jerry West overpaid"? What?
Last time I checked, he wasn't the Clippers GM. Besides that, is there any evidence that he recommended trading for PG as well as recommending that package?
User avatar
whatisacenter
Veteran
Posts: 2,805
And1: 3,961
Joined: Aug 05, 2013
 

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#58 » by whatisacenter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:20 pm

you can't look at the trade with OKC and say that the Clippers sent all those assets for PG and Kawhi. Yes, Kawhi said get me PG and I will sign as a free agent but the trade with OKC stands on it's own. It was a horrendous overpay for a player with two broken shoulders and a history of playoff disappearances. If Jerry West walks on water, as some fans think, then he should have been able to get PG for market value instead of being put over a barrel by Sam Presti. The Clippers sent out more for PG than the Lakers sent out for AD and I would take AD all day everyday over PG.
User avatar
levon
Head Coach
Posts: 6,775
And1: 10,734
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#59 » by levon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:21 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Jerry West is literally the guy with the best on-going track record of decision making in the history of the NBA. That doesn't mean everything he's doing is perfect, but if you're looking to tear apart a guy who has been making good decisions in the NBA for 60 years because a move he just made and the NBA world thought was reasonable at the time didn't work out, then you're literally just looking to tear down absolutely everyone whenever you have an excuse to.

This tendency toward gleeful nihilism is just ugly.

I'm not tearing West down. I've said multiple times he's a top executive. I don't even know what he does for the Clippers. He might just be a spokesperson. None of this is West's fault. I'm just now also applying the Clippers' letdown to him, since his mythos gets aggrandized after every perceived success, even though we have little idea of what he actually does as a consultant for these teams. I want to keep the discussion around these people objective, because I think the Clippers' shortcoming this year is because of unobjective arrogance.
LAKESHOW
RealGM
Posts: 12,944
And1: 2,153
Joined: Mar 14, 2002
Location: HOME OF THE 16 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!

Re: Jerry West is a GENIUS 

Post#60 » by LAKESHOW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:22 pm

This is Truly Truly a sensitive topic. The Mans jersey and imprint is hanging in the rafters of Staples. Legend! Mad Mad respect for this man. He won the Kawhi sweepstakes. He also won Shaq, Kobe move etc...But this Move to acquire the Star player had strings attached. Kawhi ordered up PG, and Jerry West delivered on Kawhis behalf. And now, for his years of service to my LAKERS, I'm gonna bail him out. Jerry West put all groceries in the kitchen...HOWEVER, Mr. West did NOT hire the cook. THE COOK was there before Jerry West got there. So im gonna bail Jerry West out and lay it all at the feet of the cook. DOC RIVERS was not a Jerry West hire. DOC needs to be called out and put on front street. DOC rivers has a history of blowin leads. DOC rivers is the one who had CP3, griffin, etc and blew it. Im gonna lay this all at the feet of the Chef. The cook. Doc rivers is the culprit here
Home of the 16 Time World Champions

Return to The General Board