Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title

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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#141 » by Doug_12 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:32 pm

Jonny Blaze wrote:
Baronious wrote:The 3-6 finals record talk is the dumbest argument I've ever seen. We're penalizing LeBron because he overachieved and made it to the finals when his team had no business of being there? I guess he should have lost in the first round like Jordan did. That seems to be a bigger achievement in people's eyes... 2011 is the only year you can hold against him. That's it.

Jordan never had to face an all time great time like the warriors or 2014 SAS. He never had a finals appearance where both Pippen and Rodman were injured as well...

Let's also not forget Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan in 94 and almost made it to the conference finals without him. The only Lebron teams I can think of that may have been able to achieve that feat is the 2011 & 2012 Miami teams because of D Wade. Bulls winning 55 games without him and being 1 game away from the conference finals just shows how great of a team Jordan had around him. It would be fair to say he always had the superior squad in the finals. 6/6 record under those circumstances doesn't really surprise me...


What year did you start watching the NBA?

Lebron fans are something else.

Every season From 2010 until 2014 Lebron James played on the most talented team in the NBA. He did this while also playing in a horrible Eastern Conference.

When did his teams overachieve? a 3-6 record in the Finals is garbage with the amount of talent LBJ played with.

The Golden St Warriors were what the Miami Heat were supposed to be.

The 2007 and 2014 Spurs, 2011 Mavericks, and 2015 and 16 Golden St Warriors were not any better than some teams that Jordan defeated in the 1990's.

The 16, 17 and 18 Warriors are the only teams that were clearly better than any team that Jordan faced.

Corrected.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#142 » by knicksNOTslick » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:37 pm

Homer38 wrote:
knicksNOTslick wrote:
Baronious wrote:The 3-6 finals record talk is the dumbest argument I've ever seen. We're penalizing LeBron because he overachieved and made it to the finals when his team had no business of being there? I guess he should have lost in the first round like Jordan did. That seems to be a bigger achievement in people's eyes... 2011 is the only year you can hold against him. That's it.

Jordan never had to face an all time great time like the warriors or 2014 SAS. He never had a finals appearance where both Pippen and Rodman were injured as well...

Let's also not forget Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan in 94 and almost made it to the conference finals without him. The only Lebron teams I can think of that may have been able to achieve that feat is the 2011 & 2012 Miami teams because of D Wade. Bulls winning 55 games without him and being 1 game away from the conference finals just shows how great of a team Jordan had around him. It would be fair to say he always had the superior squad in the finals. 6/6 record under those circumstances doesn't really surprise me...

You say that's it like it's not a huge mark on his career. Jordan has never came up small on the big stage like that. His big time choke at the peak of his career is pretty bad. You can't just say that was it.
Also, DWade is better than any player Jordan has played with. For the Lakers, Anthony Davis was even in MVP and DPOY talks. Nobody else on the Bulls teams had that when Jordan was on the team.



The lack of respect of the great Scottie Pippen(top 30 players ever) is crazy.

Lack of respect? Just cuz I said DWade was better? The lack of respect for Wade just to prop up Lebron is crazy. Wade won a ring as the main guy and had to show Lebron how to win one because without Wade, who knows if Lebron would've gotten it with all that pressure mounting on him to win one. Remember how he came up so small in 2011. That was year one with the Heat and Lebron wilted under pressure.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#143 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm

knicksNOTslick wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
knicksNOTslick wrote:You say that's it like it's not a huge mark on his career. Jordan has never came up small on the big stage like that. His big time choke at the peak of his career is pretty bad. You can't just say that was it.
Also, DWade is better than any player Jordan has played with. For the Lakers, Anthony Davis was even in MVP and DPOY talks. Nobody else on the Bulls teams had that when Jordan was on the team.



The lack of respect of the great Scottie Pippen(top 30 players ever) is crazy.

Lack of respect? Just cuz I said DWade was better? The lack of respect for Wade just to prop up Lebron is crazy. Wade won a ring as the main guy and had to show Lebron how to win one because without Wade, who knows if Lebron would've gotten it with all that pressure mounting on him to win one. Remember how he came up so small in 2011. That was year one with the Heat and Lebron wilted under pressure.



But Wade was not the same player in the 2013 playoffs and after.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#144 » by Kobe187 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 pm

The conversation should be more of a 50/50 split as to the GOAT IF James wins a Championship as it’s really one sided currently in Jordan’s favour. James will pass KAJ and it’ll be a 1A 1B type scenario between him & MJ.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#145 » by timO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:00 pm

He will not, still 4/10, he needs two more chips.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#146 » by LesGrossman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:14 pm

Wierd how people have a short term memory problem. LeBron got swept in the finals, then missed the whole playoffs. The whole talk was "this should ultimately end the G.O.A.T. discussions for good", feel free to pull up GB discussions, it was pretty much consensus. Now Giannis' and Kawhi's teams lose in the 2nd round and that somehow reopens the discussions on ... LeBron's G.O.A.T. status? Exactly what has changed, other than his road getting possibly even easier now, having by far the best partner in AD and no superstar oppoents left? If anything this is the easiest ring ever. No asterisk because its their own fault to not make the finals, but in my book, this title wouldnt change a thing on LeBron's legacy.

Do the same, but without the only remaining other top5 player on your team to carry the scoring load (leading the taem in PER). That would be impressive. Giannis playing next to guys the Lakers would maybe allow on the bench is honorable, failing is nothing to be ashamed of, doesnt take away from the fact that Giannis is this seasons' MVP. Kawhi getting NO help from his supposed partner PG13 who predictably folds under pressure and clanks every shot is nothing that would prop up LeBrons status.

Sometimes i wonder, do guys get paid to create such threads? Is this guerilla marketing or something? Some of the takes are so unreal i refuse to believe real people would come up with that.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#147 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:18 pm

LesGrossman wrote:Wierd how people have a short term memory problem. LeBron got swept in the finals, then missed the whole playoffs. The whole talk was "this should ultimately end the G.O.A.T. discussions for good", feel free to pull up GB discussions, it was pretty much consensus. Now Giannis' and Kawhi's teams lose in the 2nd round and that somehow reopens the discussions on ... LeBron's G.O.A.T. status? Exactly what has changed, other than his road getting possibly even easier now, having by far the best partner in AD and no superstar oppoents left? If anything this is the easiest ring ever. No asterisk because its their own fault to not make the finals, but in my book, this title wouldnt change a thing on LeBron's legacy.

Do the same, but without the only remaining other top5 player on your team to carry the scoring load (leading the taem in PER). That would be impressive. Giannis playing next to guys the Lakers would maybe allow on the bench is honorable, failing is nothing to be ashamed of, doesnt take away from the fact that Giannis is this seasons' MVP. Kawhi getting NO help from his supposed partner PG13 who predictably folds under pressure and clanks every shot is nothing that would prop up LeBrons status.

Sometimes i wonder, do guys get paid to create such threads? Is this guerilla marketing or something? Some of the takes are so unreal i refuse to believe real people would come up with that.



When LeBron loses, it's an individual sport ... when Kawhi loses, it's a team sport

Your logic.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#148 » by leolozon » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:19 pm

OdomFan wrote:
leolozon wrote:People who don't want Lebron to be GOAT won't accept that he he could be no matter what. There's a lot of bias at play from people who grew up watching MJ (I grew up watching MJ).

I probably will have them at 1a and 1b not matter if Lebron wins it all another time (I don't think championships are an individual award, I care about how you play).

I just wish people admitted that who they have number 1 is dependant on their own personal take on peak vs longevity. And I wish that people kept the same criteria to rank other players after that. You sometimes see people who think MJ is WAY ahead of Lebron because of a slightly better peak, but then they'll rank a player with better longevity ahead of a player with a slightly better peak.

Yeah? well I wish people would remember that every team has a leader, which is what MJ and Lebron have always been for their NBA squads. The team deserves credit for every win and loss sure, but the leader of that team also deserve a major part of it for leading their squad which ever direction year after year after year of their overall careers. Lebron may have played longer, but MJ was able to make a bigger impact in a shorter amount of time. There for he's the greater player/leader.


I never said that the leader shouldn't get a bigger share of the credit... he should. But I don't think Jordan was that much more impactful at his peak, I think he had a better team around him for most of those years. I think Lebron had maybe 2-3 supporting casts that was as good as what MJ had in his 6 championships. I also don't think MJ ever faced a team as good as the Warriors.

In the end it's all about how you interpret peak vs longevity. I don't mind how you do it as long as you realize that Lebron beating MJ in pretty much all counting basic/advanced stats RS/playoffs could make some people lean for Lebron. And it's perfectly okay considering their peak/prime isn't that far off.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#149 » by Jonny Blaze » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:29 pm

Baronious wrote:
Jonny Blaze wrote:
Baronious wrote:The 3-6 finals record talk is the dumbest argument I've ever seen. We're penalizing LeBron because he overachieved and made it to the finals when his team had no business of being there? I guess he should have lost in the first round like Jordan did. That seems to be a bigger achievement in people's eyes... 2011 is the only year you can hold against him. That's it.

Jordan never had to face an all time great time like the warriors or 2014 SAS. He never had a finals appearance where both Pippen and Rodman were injured as well...

Let's also not forget Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan in 94 and almost made it to the conference finals without him. The only Lebron teams I can think of that may have been able to achieve that feat is the 2011 & 2012 Miami teams because of D Wade. Bulls winning 55 games without him and being 1 game away from the conference finals just shows how great of a team Jordan had around him. It would be fair to say he always had the superior squad in the finals. 6/6 record under those circumstances doesn't really surprise me...


What year did you start watching the NBA?

Lebron fans are something else.

Every season From 2010 until 2016 Lebron James played on the most talented team in the NBA. He did this while also playing in a horrible Eastern Conference.

When did his teams overachieve? a 3-6 record in the Finals is garbage with the amount of talent LBJ played with.

The Golden St Warriors were what the Miami Heat were supposed to be.

The 2007 and 2014 Spurs, 2011 Mavericks, and 2015 and 16 Golden St Warriors were not any better than any of teams that Jordan defeated in the 1990's.

The 17 and 18 Warriors are the only two teams that were clearly better than any team that Jordan faced.


Looks like I started watching it a lot earlier than you did. All you're doing is blindly hating without stating anything worthwhile.

07 Cavs, 15 Cavs, 18 Cavs are all teams that significantly overachieved. Those teams had no business of being in the finals. Now you're gonna come here and say but but but 15 Cavs had Love and Kyrie. Love was out of the playoffs in the first round. Kyrie was pretty much injured the whole playoff run and he was gone during the first game of the finals once he blew his knee cap. LeBron with Dellevadova as his second option took that GSW team to 6 games... but of course, haters like you will hold it against him.

16 GSW that won 73 games wasn't better than any of the teams Jordan defeated in the 1990s? :lol: :lol: :lol: Get real bro. 14 SAS and 16 GSW are far better than any team Jordan faced in the playoffs.

Like I said, the only finals you can hold against LeBron is 2011.


Why did you duck my question?

What year did you start watching the NBA?

I'm not hating anyone. My team destroyed Lebron James in the Finals, and I was there to witness it.

I do find guys you and Homer38 to be amusing. Grown men worshipping another man is strange....and then these same grown men getting irritated when others don't idolize these players is weird.....but to each his own.

The 2014 Spurs are exactly the type of teams that the Bulls would destroy. The Bulls destroyed deep teams with no real superstar like the 1991 Trailblazers or the 1996 Sonics.

The 91 Lakers, 93 Suns and and 97-98 Jazz were led by all time great hall of fame players. The Late 90's Jazz used to destroy Shaq/Kobe as well as Tim Duncan/David Robinson....but according to guys born in the 2000's all the other players in the NBA sucked.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#150 » by dautjazz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 pm

OdomFan wrote:
winston2chainz wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
Think about this, if Lebron wins this year it's 4, with a real possibility to win more, Durant essentially STOLE title hopes from Lebron in 2017 and 2018 by joining a 73 win core. Lebron would of beat a Durant-less Warriors team atleast once, not to mention he was VERY shorthanded in 2015 due to Love and Irving injuries, otherwise he would of probably beat that team as well. MJ didn't have an opponent like the Warriors or even the 2014 Spurs that he topped. I wouldn't count the 1991 Pistons to be in that category, and then who was the best teams he beat the Ewing Knicks or 1996 Sonics? Being honest with myself, the 1997 and 1998 Jazz were not that great, Stockton and Hornacek were well past their prime, it was classic overachievement by Sloan and Malone's continuing dominance that even put them in that position.


Durant stole Lebron's titles by joining a superteam, meanwhile Lebron won deserved championships by colluding with two of the best players in the Eastern Conference and forming the Miami Heat super team, and then bailing on them once Wade was declining to form another super team in Cleveland with two other all stars and masquerading it as "coming home".

Exactly this, then he jumped away from "home" again when that fell apart once again to go to Hollywood to form yet another super team with him, Leonard, Paul George and whoever else was promised to him during the time of the negotiations. That plan didn't work out, but in the end he was given Anthony Davis to work with.


To be fair, Lebron left Miami and Cleveland, then suddenly they were horrible, meanwhile Durant joined a 73 win team, and would of probably been a 50+ win team this year with a healthy Curry and Klay.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#151 » by Saints14 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:36 pm

These playoffs are really showing just how consistently great LeBron is. For every other star player, it's normal for them to have a disappointing series now and then...that Kawhi is getting slandered is a testament to just how high LeBron set that bar
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#152 » by Jonny Blaze » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:39 pm

Saints14 wrote:These playoffs are really showing just how consistently great LeBron is. For every other star player, it's normal for them to have a disappointing series now and then...that Kawhi is getting slandered is a testament to just how high LeBron set that bar


Lebron was horrible in the 2007 and 2011 NBA Finals.

He really wasn't that great in 2013 until the last two games.

Michael Jordan never had a below average Finals.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#153 » by Saints14 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:46 pm

Jonny Blaze wrote:
Saints14 wrote:These playoffs are really showing just how consistently great LeBron is. For every other star player, it's normal for them to have a disappointing series now and then...that Kawhi is getting slandered is a testament to just how high LeBron set that bar


Lebron was horrible in the 2007 and 2011 NBA Finals.

He really wasn't that great in 2013 until the last two games.

Michael Jordan never had a below average Finals.


He won the title in 2013 and overachieved in 2007, 2011 is the only real criticism IMO
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#154 » by The4thHorseman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:48 pm

Jonny Blaze wrote:
Baronious wrote:The 3-6 finals record talk is the dumbest argument I've ever seen. We're penalizing LeBron because he overachieved and made it to the finals when his team had no business of being there? I guess he should have lost in the first round like Jordan did. That seems to be a bigger achievement in people's eyes... 2011 is the only year you can hold against him. That's it.

Jordan never had to face an all time great time like the warriors or 2014 SAS. He never had a finals appearance where both Pippen and Rodman were injured as well...

Let's also not forget Bulls won 55 games WITHOUT Jordan in 94 and almost made it to the conference finals without him. The only Lebron teams I can think of that may have been able to achieve that feat is the 2011 & 2012 Miami teams because of D Wade. Bulls winning 55 games without him and being 1 game away from the conference finals just shows how great of a team Jordan had around him. It would be fair to say he always had the superior squad in the finals. 6/6 record under those circumstances doesn't really surprise me...


What year did you start watching the NBA?

Lebron fans are something else.

Every season From 2010 until 2016 Lebron James played on the most talented team in the NBA. He did this while also playing in a horrible Eastern Conference.

When did his teams overachieve? a 3-6 record in the Finals is garbage with the amount of talent LBJ played with.

The Golden St Warriors were what the Miami Heat were supposed to be.

The 2007 and 2014 Spurs, 2011 Mavericks, and 2015 and 16 Golden St Warriors were not any better than any of teams that Jordan defeated in the 1990's.

The 17 and 18 Warriors are the only two teams that were clearly better than any team that Jordan faced.

The 2010, 2015 and 2016 Cavs best team in the league???

2014 Heat best team???

Thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#155 » by loserX » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm

timO wrote:He will not, still 4/10, he needs two more chips.


By this argument, Bill Russell is the GOAT, why are we even talking about Jordan at all, maybe if he had five more chips.

This argument really needs to be buried and forgotten. Either:
- you can be a better GOAT candidate despite having fewer rings (in which case Jordan's ring count shouldn't be used so conclusively against LeBron)
- or you can't (in which case Russell's ring count needs to be used conclusively against everybody).
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#156 » by Dmagic » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm

NA IT WILL BE ALMOST TIED IMO--LEBRON GONNA HAVE TO GO 4 STRAIGHT WITH LA WINNING AT LEAST 2 IF HE 3 PEAT. ITS A WRAP
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#157 » by TOStateofMind » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:58 pm

This ship has sailed a while ago man. Nothing wrong with being 2nd best.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#158 » by TheMartian » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 pm

Why are Laker fans suddenly in all out support for Bron's GOAT status, when they vehemently argued the case for Kobe over Bron in the past? Oh wait, I think I know why.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#159 » by OGLife » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:03 pm

mzepol wrote:Why are Laker fans suddenly in all out support for Bron's GOAT status, when they vehemently argued the case for Kobe over Bron in the past? Oh wait, I think I know why.

Most of them believe Shaq and Kobe were better than Wilt.

Wilt is the best Laker ever.
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Re: Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title 

Post#160 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:09 pm

whitehops wrote:If you compare MJ’s playoff numbers in 98 where he was 34 years old (32/5/4 on .545 TS%) to lebron’s this postseason where he’s 35 (27/10/9 on .654 TS%) it puts into perspective how impressive lebron’s longevity is.

When you consider how many people assumed lebron’s game would fall off quickly in old age due to his reliance on athleticism, it shows how he’s defied almost every expectation.


I always thought it sort of weird that Jordan was building his Goat legacy in seasons where he wasn't necessarily statisticly dominant, but was on a run of team success. One way of doing it I guess.
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