Lebron gotta be considered the GOAT now when the Lakers win the title

[loveandbeer]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

What have D-Wade or Kyrie done post-Lebron? They're both good second fiddles but let's not kid ourselves with this 30ppg / MVP player nonsense.

Wade is my favorite player of all time but you can't honestly say he was the same player in 2012-2013...

[The Rodzilla]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

see this is what i was talking about

1) MJ fan
2) worried

MJ fans are worried

[OdomFan]

they are worried and MJ is worried, thats why he made the documentary of himself and greenlit it on the day of the cleveland championship parade

if he gets to 4 championships then he is potentially only 2 years away from 6 (6 - 4 = 2)

if he can get to 6 then it would be 6 while everybody was trying to stop him, MJ has 6 when everybody was trying to help him

Nah, the only people worried here are the Lebron fans who keep trying to put this guy in the GOAT conversation because of this reason or that reason. Michael Jordan has absolutely nothing to worry about because again, his overall career was better no matter what happens in these playoffs, and he was the better individual leader and player between the two.

no, we will just have to agree that im correct because i see what they are doing, first they pin their hopes on someone stopping him and now they are reduced to downplaying this situation, like its the weakest playoffs in history or lebron is once again stacking the deck

another thing they will say is that this is not a real nba championship, anything to discredit the power of the Lebron

Lebron fans will say exactly this if the Lakers lose. You can only deny that you individually wouldn't say that. However I doubt that to be true.

[SoulJah]

No, and he never will be. We've known this since 2010, and that was underlined again in 2011.

People acting like LeBRon is a God who turned 3 franchises around are also forgetting that he burned and gutted those franchises when he left.

MJ had Scotty Thought!!!

True, but MJ didn't peace out to go play with Scotty in his prime every 4 years like LeBron does. No honor, no pride in anything but himself.

LeBron is the best player of his generation, but he will never be the goat because he started ring chasing in his mid-20's. He will never be the goat because when things got even a modicum more difficult, he always took the cowards way out.

To me. LeBron is just this generations Shaq except with more longevity

This pretty much accurately sums up LeBron's career.

[QPR]

If the Lakers beat the Nuggets then LeBron will have been in the finals in 10 of his 17 professional seasons, which becomes 10 in 14 since the first trip. That is pretty crazy, even if most were in the East in its weaker years - he has basically been playing 90+ games per season for the majority of his career.

[msr999]

"when the Lakers win"!!!! Talk about counting your chickens.

[GusFring]

You guys say this every year, he's not the goat.

[The Rodzilla]

Nah, the only people worried here are the Lebron fans who keep trying to put this guy in the GOAT conversation because of this reason or that reason. Michael Jordan has absolutely nothing to worry about because again, his overall career was better no matter what happens in these playoffs, and he was the better individual leader and player between the two.

no, we will just have to agree that im correct because i see what they are doing, first they pin their hopes on someone stopping him and now they are reduced to downplaying this situation, like its the weakest playoffs in history or lebron is once again stacking the deck

another thing they will say is that this is not a real nba championship, anything to discredit the power of the Lebron

Lebron fans will say exactly this if the Lakers lose. You can only deny that you individually wouldn't say that. However I doubt that to be true.

no, Lebron fans are experts in accepting losses and continuing on because it has happened so much

the problem is the Jordan fans, they are not accepting

[E-Balla]

LeBron is more Shaq than Jordan. Any argument for LeBron as the GOAT would be better served for a Kareem is the GOAT argument.

Also before the postseason started I've been on record saying this is an asterisk season. The circumstances behind this postseason and every other postseason in league history has been so wildly different, which is why the asterisk exists. Not to discredit the ring but to make note that the ring came in a different circumstance than what's expected. Every other year the winner has been the best NBA team, whoever can go through the slog of 82 games and the wear and tear that brings to still win it all. This year is more about who's the best basketball team in a vacuum.

[dribble1614]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

What have D-Wade or Kyrie done post-Lebron? They're both good second fiddles but let's not kid ourselves with this 30ppg / MVP player nonsense.

Wade is my favorite player of all time but you can't honestly say he was the same player in 2012-2013...

D-Wade and Anthony Davis are both MVP level players. D-Wade carried Shaq to a title before LeBron ever even made a Finals appearance! LeBron can't do it without ultra elite scoring/offensive help.

[Homer38]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

What have D-Wade or Kyrie done post-Lebron? They're both good second fiddles but let's not kid ourselves with this 30ppg / MVP player nonsense.

Wade is my favorite player of all time but you can't honestly say he was the same player in 2012-2013...

D-Wade and Anthony Davis are both MVP level players. D-Wade carried Shaq to a title before LeBron ever even made a Finals appearance! LeBron can't do it without ultra elite scoring/offensive help.

Jordan can't win without Pippen and the best coach in NBA and maybe in sports history too.

[dribble1614]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

see this is what i was talking about

1) MJ fan
2) worried

MJ fans are worried

Ain't nobody worried buster. When the facts get laid out plain and clear, LeBron GOAT arguments get shut down.

[OdomFan]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

What have D-Wade or Kyrie done post-Lebron? They're both good second fiddles but let's not kid ourselves with this 30ppg / MVP player nonsense.

Wade is my favorite player of all time but you can't honestly say he was the same player in 2012-2013...

What did Lebron and his teams do in the playoffs during the Pre Wade/Bosh years? get swept in the Finals and constantly lose in general Wade a second fiddle, good one. Last time I checked he already proved to be more than a second fiddle when he led the Miami Heat to a series victory in his rookie year with only young Caron Butler and Lamar Odom next to him, then went on to take them even further during the Shaq years going deep in 2005, and winning it all in 2006.

Say what you want about the officiating against Dallas, but the fact is they got the job done where as Lebron on the other hand couldn't even get his team to the playoffs during his first 2 seasons in the NBA. (but he was just an 18 year old kid!) that was his choice to choose the NBA over playing college hoops, so it counts. Lebron got to the finals in 2007 only to get swept, then it was down from there until he had to join up with Wade and Bosh out of desperation of not being able to beat the Celtics. We'll never know what a Wade vs Lebron series could have been like because they both chose to team up, but in the end i think it's silly for anyone. (especially someone who claims Wade to be their all time favorite player) to claim he was just some second fiddle. Not even close.

[smallgains]

That ship has sailed far away but there's nothing wrong with 2nd or 3rd...

[E-Balla]

If longevity was the deciding factor, LeBron would have noted he's chasing Kareem but he's not.

Still behind MJ in championships, individual awards, peak, most major advance statistics favor Jordan, also LeBron has never lead a team to a dynasty which gets overlooked as most of the top players ever have done it, Jordan did it twice.

Jordan also won three in the weakest era we have seen in 40 years. The mid to late 90's was garbage. No Euro players, high schoolers and expansion. Look at those sonics and Jazz rosters.

The weakest era accorsing to who? I could easily argue that the weakest era was 2005-2016.

You're both wrong. The clear weakest era is 68-75 when the talent was split between 2 leagues. Plenty of the top players of that era (Rick Barry, Connie Hawkins, Dr. J, Artis Gilmore, etc) weren't even in the NBA at the time.

[OdomFan]

What have D-Wade or Kyrie done post-Lebron? They're both good second fiddles but let's not kid ourselves with this 30ppg / MVP player nonsense.

Wade is my favorite player of all time but you can't honestly say he was the same player in 2012-2013...

D-Wade and Anthony Davis are both MVP level players. D-Wade carried Shaq to a title before LeBron ever even made a Finals appearance! LeBron can't do it without ultra elite scoring/offensive help.

Jordan can't win without Pippen and the best coach in NBA and maybe in sports history too.

Phil has an argument, but to try to put him up on this pedestal as being unbeatable against all others in the 90s is just silly. The 90s had a ton of great coaches coaching great teams who constantly challenged and defeated those Bulls throughout that decade. It was not remotely as easy as some of you try to make it out to be.

[Marty_Budda]

No. Bron kept teaming up with players who were the alpha of their teams before playing with him. That alone is a red flag.

MJ never did that and dominated.

But longevity wise, gotta give it to Bron for his consistency.

What is the record of Jordan without the great Scottie Pippen?

0 rings that's fact.

But that doesn't change the fact Bron continue to seek out alphas to pursue his runs. That's facts too, no?

So Love, Kyrie, Davis and even bosh are alohas now? Literally none of them has had any success without Lebron...

[The Rodzilla]

How so? Anyone can win a title playing this weak competition. His Finals opponent will be a either a 5th seed that nobody expected to make out of the 2nd round or a very young/inexperienced team with no superstars either.

And he gets to duck the 2 best players who were his competition in Giannis and Kawhi.

Plus he choked in the 2011 Finals and has inferior regular season and playoffs stats all across the board.

LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals with way more help and superstar talent. He could never win without another #1 option / MVP level player or player capable of scoring 30 ppg. Jordan went 6-0 and smokes LeBron in the playoffs and Finals.

Also keep in mind LeBron is being outplayed by one of his own teammates through 2 rounds. Jordan never had a teammate put up anywhere near his production, regular season or playoffs.

LeBron is closer to Kareem than Jordan.

see this is what i was talking about

1) MJ fan
2) worried

MJ fans are worried

Ain't nobody worried buster. When the facts get laid out plain and clear, LeBron GOAT arguments get shut down.

they get shut down because you are worried

if you arent worried then you wouldnt worry about what lebron is doing

Lebron is so good, what a great passer etc

Lebron has choked 10 years ago, he is nothing

[SupaManu]

No shot. As someone who has been fortunate enough to watch both careers, it's still MJ and i really don't think its close unless Lebron wins a few more titles after this year.

[ropjhk]

The Clippers and Bucks bowing out actually hurts Lebron's potential case. Had he faced them and beaten them we would be a lot more impressed than him having beaten the Nuggest and Heat/Celtics. As it is now, a championship is still a feather in his cap and brings him closer to Jordan, but it doesn't put him over the top IMO. If anything, not winning a championship when your greatest threats have been eliminated will hurt Lebron's case for the GOAT title.

A championship this season will set up next season as the run that could put him over the top. Back to back championships will have a huge impact on Lebron's GOAT argument. I've considered Lebron to be the 2nd best player of all time since his 2016 championship. I've always said the pathway for Lebron as the GOAT required a near perfect end to his career. He has a chance to pull that off with the Lakers and it has to begin now.