With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds?

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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#41 » by Marty_Budda » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:21 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:Kawhi - mega choke this year
Lebron - choked in 07 and 11
curry - choked in 2016
kd - choked in 2016
giannis - choked this year and last year
paul - choked in 2015
harden - choked in 2017


Kids under 25 like Jokic and Doncic don't count, they have not had enough opportunities to get exposed as fraudulent and choke in the Playoffs yet.


This post right here is definitive proof that LeBron gets held to an unfair and different standard to everyone else. To say Lebron choked in 07, with that roster...at 22...and then say kids under 25 don’t count...LMAO
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#42 » by og15 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:36 pm

"Choking" is overused and usually followed with terrible analysis.

Just about every superstar has had dissapointing moments, and in the midst of it, they will get a lot of heat, there will be a lot of hyperbole, etc, etc, then most people will move on.

It is what it is.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#43 » by timO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:37 pm

boomershadow wrote:I think what RealGM really wants is a player who has never lost a game but also somehow at the same time been the underdog in each of those games.

That's not super unrealistic, is it?


That is why Jordan is the goat 6/6 when it matters.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#44 » by Edrees » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm

He "choked" because he gave up a 3-1 lead, against a team seed lower than him no less. Lebron has never done that. Kawhi is still better than a lot of players, but a player who gives up 3-1 leads can't be on the same level as Lebron.

Basically Kawhi isn't a fraud in terms of being a great player, he's just a fraud at being the best player It's the same way Curry is a great player, but after Curry gave up the 3-1 lead on Lebron, nobody would ever call Curry better.

Again, I will stress that CHOKING is when you lead big but lose anyway. That's what choking is. Just losing isn't choking.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#45 » by Cavsfansince84 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm

og15 wrote:"Choking" is overused and usually followed with terrible analysis.

Just about every superstar has had dissapointing moments, and in the midst of it, they will get a lot of heat, there will be a lot of hyperbole, etc, etc, then most people will move on.

It is what it is.


It can also change from series to series. Dirk had a tremendous series in 06 against the Spurs who were defending champs including 37/15 in game 7 to win it followed by another great series in the wcf of 28/13 then loses in the finals to the Heat and all people want to talk about with him is 2011 like he never had any other great playoff runs/series. Its just so fickle to me how people use that word. Players have up and down series. Sometimes they pull out one in a game 7 then play worse in the next. Its called being human.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#46 » by BombsquadSammy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm

Rodwilliams wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:As much as I'm personally enjoying what happened for obvious and well-known reasons, the truth is that it's folly to judge players on their low points.

Every player has low points along his career, and for most players, the lows are pretty low. Every guy's blown it at some point; not every guy's won a ring or an MVP. What are a player's high points? That's what we should evaluate them by.

You can easily recognize when someone has a clear agenda against a player, because they'll only talk about that player's low points (LeBron lost six Finals, Kobe only shot 31% in the clutch, Jordan couldn't get out of the first round until Pippen came, etc.) while in the same context only talking about their guy's high points.

Kawhi had a rough series and a lousy game, but he didn't have to turn in his rings or his Finals MVPs because of that.



This logic doesn’t work AFTER you won championships. Kawhi has 2 rings and then chokes a 3-1 lead against a Nuggets team with Jokic and Jamal Murray. No excuse for that. Choked in game 7. No excuse. Half that stuff you named with Kobe and Jordan happened before they won championships. Can’t apply that to this situation.


That's not true. Jordan's path is that least traveled; very few players retire on top (and if we factor his Washington years, which we should if we're being fair, even he didn't).

Kobe was the Lakers' biggest negative factor in their loss to the Pistons in the '04 Finals; he shot them out of that series, and that was after he'd become a three-time champion. He gave up a 3-1 lead to Phoenix a few years later.

'Tragic Johnson'--Magic's choke job in the '84 Finals; he was a two-time champ and a two-time Finals MVP by that point.

Steph came up short in 2016, and he was a champ and a two-time MVP at that point.

Some say the Spurs choked after being up 3-2 against Miami in 2013, and their championship mettle was more-than-proven by that point.

It happens. This stuff is dynamic-- it's not as though once someone figures out how to win, they become impervious to losing or struggling.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#47 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:49 pm

Edrees wrote:He "choked" because he gave up a 3-1 lead, against a team seed lower than him no less. Lebron has never done that. Kawhi is still better than a lot of players, but a player who gives up 3-1 leads can't be on the same level as Lebron.

Basically Kawhi isn't a fraud in terms of being a great player, he's just a fraud at being the best player It's the same way Curry is a great player, but after Curry gave up the 3-1 lead on Lebron, nobody would ever call Curry better.

Again, I will stress that CHOKING is when you lead big but lose anyway. That's what choking is. Just losing isn't choking.


Curry is better than lebron.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#48 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:52 pm

Rodwilliams wrote:
timO wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:Kawhi - mega choke this year
Lebron - choked in 07 and 11
curry - choked in 2016
kd - choked in 2016
giannis - choked this year and last year
paul - choked in 2015
harden - choked in 2017


Kids under 25 like Jokic and Doncic don't count, they have not had enough opportunities to get exposed as fraudulent and choke in the Playoffs yet.


curry choked in 2015 too

lebron chokes are 09, 10 and 11, 2011 was insane choking

KL was too alone, even Lebron has Kyrie to close the gsw or he will loses again



Why do you say Curry choked in 2015? Are you talking about the Finals MVP :lol:

Not sure if I would consider it a choke job but there is no way the Cavs should’ve pushed the Warriors to 6 games that year with two star players being injured.

Lebron gets a pass for 2010 but he definitely choked in 09 and 11.


2009??????
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#49 » by timO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:55 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Rodwilliams wrote:
timO wrote:
curry choked in 2015 too

lebron chokes are 09, 10 and 11, 2011 was insane choking

KL was too alone, even Lebron has Kyrie to close the gsw or he will loses again



Why do you say Curry choked in 2015? Are you talking about the Finals MVP :lol:

Not sure if I would consider it a choke job but there is no way the Cavs should’ve pushed the Warriors to 6 games that year with two star players being injured.

Lebron gets a pass for 2010 but he definitely choked in 09 and 11.


2009??????


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905300ORL.html

the other 5 games he was fantastic, but in this one he chokes
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#50 » by Homer38 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:57 pm

timO wrote:
Homer38 wrote:
Rodwilliams wrote:

Why do you say Curry choked in 2015? Are you talking about the Finals MVP :lol:

Not sure if I would consider it a choke job but there is no way the Cavs should’ve pushed the Warriors to 6 games that year with two star players being injured.

Lebron gets a pass for 2010 but he definitely choked in 09 and 11.


2009??????


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905300ORL.html

the other 5 games he was fantastic, but in this one he chokes


It was not a good game but not all-time bad even for a superstar.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#51 » by infinite11285 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:00 pm

timO wrote:
boomershadow wrote:I think what RealGM really wants is a player who has never lost a game but also somehow at the same time been the underdog in each of those games.

That's not super unrealistic, is it?


That is why Jordan is the goat 6/6 when it matters.


So of the 12 playoff runs he played in, only half mattered?
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#52 » by Cavsfansince84 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:01 pm

timO wrote:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905300ORL.html

the other 5 games he was fantastic, but in this one he chokes


MJ definitely choked in 89 then.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#53 » by celtics543 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Why did they have to choke? Can't we just say that the other team played better? Guys can lose without choking.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#54 » by Harry Garris » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:15 pm

Calling these guys "fradulent" is implying that they can't come up big in big moments. I think that most superstars who "choke" early on in their career come back and improve and do better the next time. It's not fradulent, it's just a learning process. They weren't ready for the spotlight yet, a few years later when they're older and wiser they're ready for it.

Sports media and fans especially take so much joy out of celebrating these extremely talented players losing in an embarrassing way when the whole world's watching. It can be satisfying to hate on a guy who couldn't live up to the expectations for a little while I get that. But it's so much better to see these guys improve and come back stronger and overcome. Personally I love redemption stories. That's why I'm still rooting for Harden, and I'd like to see Paul George snap out of it one day and become a good playoff performer.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#55 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:17 pm

timO wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:Kawhi - mega choke this year
Lebron - choked in 07 and 11
curry - choked in 2016
kd - choked in 2016
giannis - choked this year and last year
paul - choked in 2015
harden - choked in 2017


Kids under 25 like Jokic and Doncic don't count, they have not had enough opportunities to get exposed as fraudulent and choke in the Playoffs yet.


curry choked in 2015 too

lebron chokes are 09, 10 and 11, 2011 was insane choking

KL was too alone, even Lebron has Kyrie to close the gsw or he will loses again



Listing 2010 is dumb but listing 2009 is one of the dumbest things ever written on this forum.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#56 » by Harry Garris » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:19 pm

celtics543 wrote:Why did they have to choke? Can't we just say that the other team played better? Guys can lose without choking.


The vast majority of the time it wasn't a choke. Like give me a break with Curry in 2016, he was great in 6 out of 7 games in that series and had one bad game plus one really bad turnover in game 7. He wasn't a disaster for the entire series. Lebron in 2011, that was choking. Paul George in the playoffs this year, that was choking. Choking is when you can play at a certain level in the regular season and mentally break down and just can't do it in the playoffs. Sports fans love to call a guy playing marginally worse in the playoffs because he's facing better defense and better coaching choking and it just isn't.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#57 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:19 pm

And yeah everyone fails and / or chokes. It’s not a huge deal, kawhi will be fine. He’s certainly not as good as we thought though and raptors cast needs more credit now


Kawhis still a top 5 player minimum and they’ll still contend next year.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#58 » by Synciere » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 pm

They're not frauds. ^This is just one the most competitive the league has EVER been. Those are the facts. The growth of the league internationally has been a boon also. Look at Jokic and Murray on the Nuggets. Luka is a beast. Even the young guys like Tatum and Jaylen Brown on the Celtics have been a part of the wave. Teams are more stacked because players are better today. The days of winning 11 titles in 13 years are gone. Even 6 titles in 8 years isn't likely to happen.

We need to stop calling guys frauds just because they lose to other great players/teams. WE should be looking at the WHOLE picture in its totality instead of constantly going for the hot takes after every year. Kawhi is not a bum or a choke artist, nor is he the best player in the world just because he won a chip last year. Lebron is still the best player in the world and it's not that close. KD would've been second, and in this era of players moving and free agency and activity from front offices, moving to better teams doesn't make one a bytch or sucka.

This might've been a choke job in and of itself, but it's not something we can paint the entire league with.
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#59 » by timO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:31 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
timO wrote:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200905300ORL.html

the other 5 games he was fantastic, but in this one he chokes


MJ definitely choked in 89 then.


32-13-4-3-2 on 50%FG is a choke :lol:
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Re: With Kawhi choking, every superstar has choked in the Playoffs, are they all frauds? 

Post#60 » by timO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:33 pm

Dupp wrote:
timO wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:Kawhi - mega choke this year
Lebron - choked in 07 and 11
curry - choked in 2016
kd - choked in 2016
giannis - choked this year and last year
paul - choked in 2015
harden - choked in 2017


Kids under 25 like Jokic and Doncic don't count, they have not had enough opportunities to get exposed as fraudulent and choke in the Playoffs yet.


curry choked in 2015 too

lebron chokes are 09, 10 and 11, 2011 was insane choking

KL was too alone, even Lebron has Kyrie to close the gsw or he will loses again



Listing 2010 is dumb but listing 2009 is one of the dumbest things ever written on this forum.


sure, orlando were favourite to advance to finals :lol:

cavs best record on the league, not :lol:

dumb and dumber

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