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Spintown wrote:

Duke4life831 wrote:

Spintown wrote:Lets see if Jokic can prove he deserves the spot over AD next round

Oh does Jokic get to play alongside LeBron next round as well?

No but he can definitely outplay AD to prove he is better

Awe yes, I cant wait for the rational takes if Jokic outplays AD but the Nuggets lose. Im sure we will plenty of nuanced takes of people giving Jokic credit even if they lose, because that happens so often around here...

Shock Defeat wrote:

TravisScott55 wrote:Russell Westbrook making 3rd team over Lowry is a joke.

WB: 27, 8, and 7 on 47% shooting
KL: 19, 5, and 7.5 on 42% shooting

So Russ average 8 more points, 3 more rebounds, almost the same assists AND was more efficient than lowry

No competition.

Russ is NOT more efficient that Lowry in any form of the word, in any statistical category.

eFG% is the best measure we have of who is the most efficient scorer

Lowry - .518
Westbrook - .497


AST/TO Ratio is probably a good scope for who is a more productive playmaker (per 100 possessions):

Lowry - 2.45/1
Westbrook - 1.57/1

Westbrook being more efficient is simply not true.



Lowry is also better at every other facet of basketball with the exception of finishing at the rim in transition.

We could go further into Ortg, Drtg, Team success, PIPM, RPM, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, OWS, DWS, VORP, WS, WS/48, yada yada yada, but there is no point because if anyone actually thinks Westbrook is a better player then Lowry, nothing we can say will matter despite all the evidence presented. It's not true, has never been true, and will never be true no matter how many OMG SICK DUNKzZzZzZ highlight videos of Westbrook are on Youtube.

It's not even close. It's an absolute joke. And it's totally unfair to Lowry that these "experts" can't tell the difference between a great basketball player and a high usage chucker. And people wonder why there is such a passionate group that defends Lowry as being the most underrated player in the NBA. Well, crap like this is it in a nutshell.

Siakam had bad playoffs but they guy led his team to the 3rd best record in the league. That is worth something. What is AD doing in the first team over Jokic is a bigger travesty!!

I agree that Pascal should be on the 3rd team, Tatum should be ahead of him

Also agree that Lowry is more effective than Russ, but box score stats are king when it comes to these things.

Duke4life831 wrote:

Spintown wrote:

Duke4life831 wrote:Oh does Jokic get to play alongside LeBron next round as well?

No but he can definitely outplay AD to prove he is better

Awe yes, I cant wait for the rational takes if Jokic outplays AD but the Nuggets lose. Im sure we will plenty of nuanced takes of people giving Jokic credit even if they lose, because that happens so often around here...

Hey, if he clearly outplays AD and is an overall net positive(offense and defense) and they still lose I will personally say Jokic deserved the first team spot over AD

Since AD got 1st team All-NBA at center instead of forward that lead to Butler getting 3rd team instead of Embiid. I think it worked out best because Butler deserves it more than Embiid.

LeBron James is now the only player in history with 16 ALL NBA selections. Crazy that he is still at MVP level though. He definitely has two more ALL NBA years in him for sure.

I cant wait for AD jokic matchup so we can finally settle this debate.

Siakam over Tatum is questionable.

Gobert over Embiid?

Ben Simmons should not be anywhere on the all NBA team dude is a scrub.

Too bad All-NBA is mostly about scoring in the regular season and not about actually making their teams better.
I go off Dean Oliver's ORTG - DRTG to give the impact they had for their team per 100 possessions off offense and defense.
Also, this is about the regular season, not who you ride or die with in the playoffs.

First team
Giannis +19
Lebron +10
Harden +12
AD +19
Luka +6

Second team
Kawhi +13
Jokic +11
Lillard +9
Cp3 +12
Siakam +2 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Third team
Tatum +5
Butler +15 <- 3rd team?
Gobert +26 <- 3rd team?
Simmons +10
Westbrook -3 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Some others...
Bam +10
Middleton +14
Whiteside +18
S.Adams +16
C.Wood +13
Towns +11
Lowery +10
Anunoby +10
D.Robinson +9
Embiid +9
Nance Jr. +9
B.Lopez +9
Hayward +9
Gallinari +9
Mikal Bridges +9
Sabonis +9
Bledsoe +8
P.Bev +9
VanVleet +7
Leonard +4
D.Mitchell -1
D.Fox -1
J.Murray -1
Dragic -3
Beal -4
J.Crowder(Mem) -3, J.Crowder(Mia) +20
D.Rose -6
Drummond -7
J.Richardson -7
Hield -8
Wiggins(Min)-11, Wiggins(GSW) -7
Herro -9
Winslow -18

Raps in 4 wrote:

DS17 wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:Swap AD and Jokic.
Swap Tatum and Siakam.
Replace Westbrook with Lowry or Kemba.

No, don't swap Jokic for AD.

Why not? Jokic is better.

He isn't. Jokic has better argument over giannis not AD.

Doncic younger All-team (1st) all-time?

NY 567 wrote:

TheGOATWill wrote:

NY 567 wrote:Everything looks fine except Siakam on the 2nd team and AD over Jokic is a joke. AD is a second option

Is defense important in basketball?

Of course. But ADs defense isn't enough to put him over Jokic. The impact and gravity Jokic brings on offense is just too much. AD has a career history of being a fairly ineffective lead guy. He's perfect on the Lakers as a 2nd option.

What does having a history of being an ineffective lead guy and being a 2nd option have to do with anything. This year's All-NBA Team is obviously based on current season's production.

The Comedian wrote:They voted for this before the bubble, IIRC.

That explains why Siakam made second team, though I think Tatum was better during the pre bubble season as well.

That makes more sense. In the 7 bubble games, Siakam's numbers went WAY down (17/6/2 on 51 TS%) which contributed to a bit of a dip in his numbers while Tatum was more or less the same or even a bit better (22/6/4 on 61 TS%). The overall numbers are already close and the fact that Toronto was basically locked into 2nd already at that point is probably what swayed some voters into putting Siakam on the 2nd team over Tatum.

Personally, I also think Tatum should have been 2nd team and Siakam 3rd team. I can see why it played out how it did, though, especially knowing that the voting was done pre-bubble.

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AD should be in as a forward, he hasnt started at center all year.

My teams:

Jokic/Giannis/Lebron/Harden/Doncic
Gobert/AD/Leonard/Lillard/Paul
Embiid/Butler/Tatum/Simmons/Lowry

gorz wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:

DS17 wrote:
No, don't swap Jokic for AD.

Why not? Jokic is better.

He isn't. Jokic has better argument over giannis not AD.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than AD.

Westbrook is a silly selection. The main thing setting him apart from ten other guards/players better than him is USG%. That's pretty much it. Even as a Rockets fan, I can confirm that him over Lowry is a joke. There's a lot of other silliness here, too, but whatever.

Raps in 4 wrote:

gorz wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
Why not? Jokic is better.

He isn't. Jokic has better argument over giannis not AD.

Giannis and Jokic are both better than AD.

What has giannis proven over AD in the playoffs? Nothing. Better stats? AD has better stats and per than Jokic and yet you claim jokic is better than AD. AD's impact is higher than jokic bc of offense and defense. Jokic has been great but Nuggets fans need to put some more respect on Murray and Harris name.

Ball so hard wrote:

NY 567 wrote:

TheGOATWill wrote:Is defense important in basketball?

Of course. But ADs defense isn't enough to put him over Jokic. The impact and gravity Jokic brings on offense is just too much. AD has a career history of being a fairly ineffective lead guy. He's perfect on the Lakers as a 2nd option.

What does having a history of being an ineffective lead guy and being a 2nd option have to do with anything. This year's All-NBA Team is obviously based on current season's production.

Yeah, and he's the second banana to LeBron. Jokic is the lead guy, as awesome as Murray has been that's Jokics team. Jokic is capable of being a number 1 on a title contender, something AD simply is not capable of. Why should he be on the first team over a guy who is flat out more effective than he is?

Shock Defeat wrote:

TravisScott55 wrote:Russell Westbrook making 3rd team over Lowry is a joke.

WB: 27, 8, and 7 on 47% shooting
KL: 19, 5, and 7.5 on 42% shooting

So Russ average 8 more points, 3 more rebounds, almost the same assists AND was more efficient than lowry

No competition.

Russell Westbrook's efficiency is pretty damn bad and far below Lowry's.

Lowry has 59 ts %
Russell 53 ts%

Russell Westbrook really has no business being in the all nba team this year - he's an inefficiency scorer and a bad defender. There are atleast 3 guards more deserving than him. He gets selected due to name recognition alone. Sadly in part due to many the media members voting for these awards likely also thinking that player efficiency is measured by fg%.

THE J0KER wrote:

Childs wrote:

This is not about who is better, Davis or Jokic, but who is center.

According to basketball-reference, Jokic played 100% of playing time this season on the center spot, while Davis most of his time (60%) played on PF spot behind classic centers McGee/Howard!

So, if we count Davis as the forward (as we should), the real all-NBA first team should be Doncic-Harden-LBJ-Giannis-Jokic, the 2nd team is Paul-Lillard-Kawhi-Davis-Gobert!

Lebron also played a majority of his time at PG. Would you prefer if they had bumped Harden to the second team and move Kawhi to the first team? As another poster mentioned, it seems they have quasi-moved on from picking the best player at a certain position... or at a minimum voting based on best at a given position has been inconsistently done.