The 2019-20 All-NBA Team!

skones · Post #181 » by **skones** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:12 am

Simmons and Butler are suspect. Middleton got hosed.

kanahda ballz · Post #182 » by **kanahda ballz** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:37 am

Tatum was inconsistent for the first three months of the season before going red hot for the last 2 months.

Siakam was consistently very good throughout the whole season.

The fact that Siakam in January was voted onto the all-star team while Tatum was named to the all-star team as a reserve is proof that Siakam was having the better season at that point.

And after that Tatum's numbers spiked due to the hot streak and he caught up to Siakam's numbers by the end of the regular season.

BenoUdrihFTL · Post #183 » by **BenoUdrihFTL** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:49 am

Lol why even designate positions if voters are just gonna ignore it and vote AD as center

Siakam 2nd team is a bit much, especially when you check his game log and note his production vs lottery teams compared to playoff teams. Apparently voters once again just looked at Toronto's record and assumed it's mainly attributable to their leading scorer and not Kyle Lowry

Baddy Chuck · Post #184 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:55 am

21/6/4 in 30 minutes a game shooting 49.7/41.5/91.6 on the team with the best record in the league. Yeah, that's an all-nba guy.

aminiaturebuddha · Post #185 » by **aminiaturebuddha** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:10 am

Jaqua92 wrote:
baller16 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
lol. says the raptor fan.

OK and....

You literally have Westbrick over Lowry, clearly you don't understand winning in basketball
Lowry wasn't a winning player until he had Kawhi.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

You do realize that in the 5 years before Kawhi got to Toronto, the Raptors never finished lower than 4th in their conference, and Lowry was the leader of those teams, right?

So unless your definition of a "winner" is narrowly limited to only people who have won championships, then that's just a ridiculous thing to say.

Woodsanity · Post #186 » by **Woodsanity** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:11 am

Bam>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Siakim

Huge travesty

aminiaturebuddha · Post #187 » by **aminiaturebuddha** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 am

Woodsanity wrote:Bam>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Siakim

Huge travesty

I don't think they were really directly compared to each other as Bam was listed as a center and Siakam a forward.

Bam vs Embiid vs Gobert is maybe a more interesting discussion.

Post #188 » by **zimpy27** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:28 am

It should have been this

1st: Doncic, Harden, LeBron, Giannis, Jokic
2nd: CP3, Lillard, Kawhi, Davis, Gobert
3rd: Lowry/Westbrook, Butler, Tatum, Middleton/Siakam, Embiid

Only toss-up is in 3rd team where I'd choose Lowry or Westbrook and Middleton or Siakam.

YogurtProducer · Post #189 » by **YogurtProducer** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:23 am

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:Lol why even designate positions if voters are just gonna ignore it and vote AD as center

Siakam 2nd team is a bit much, especially when you check his game log and note his production vs lottery teams compared to playoff teams. Apparently voters once again just looked at Toronto's record and assumed it's mainly attributable to their leading scorer and not Kyle Lowry

I agree, but competition at guard is higher than at F especially when some F’s got voted in as a guard (Simmons) or a C (Davis).

YogurtProducer · Post #190 » by **YogurtProducer** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:26 am

zimpy27 wrote:It should have been this

1st: Doncic, Harden, LeBron, Giannis, Jokic
2nd: CP3, Lillard, Kawhi, Davis, Gobert
3rd: Lowry/Westbrook, Butler, Tatum, Middleton/Siakam, Embiid

Only toss-up is in 3rd team where I'd choose Lowry or Westbrook and Middleton or Siakam.

To me it’s Tatum/Middleton/Siakam as all 3 were incredibly close IMO.

In a perfect world the 3rd team is Lowry/Middleton/Tatum/Siakam/Embiid

AirP. · Post #191 » by **AirP.** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:31 am

leolozon wrote:
AirP. wrote:Too bad All-NBA is mostly about scoring in the regular season and not about actually making their teams better.
I go off Dean Oliver's ORTG - DRTG to give the impact they had for their team per 100 possessions off offense and defense.
Also, this is about the regular season, not who you ride or die with in the playoffs.

First team
Giannis +19
Lebron +10
Harden +12
AD +19
Luka +6

Second team
Kawhi +13
Jokic +11
Lillard +9
Cp3 +12
Siakam +2 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Third team
Tatum +5
Butler +15 <- 3rd team?
Gobert +26 <- 3rd team?
Simmons +10
Westbrook -3 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Some others...
Bam +10
Middleton +14
Whiteside +18
S.Adams +16
C.Wood +13
Towns +11
Lowery +10
Anunoby +10
D.Robinson +9
Embiid +9
Nance Jr. +9
B.Lopez +9
Hayward +9
Gallinari +9
Mikal Bridges +9
Sabonis +9
Bledsoe +8
P.Bev +9
VanVleet +7
Leonard +4
D.Mitchell -1
D.Fox -1
J.Murray -1
Dragic -3
Beal -4
J.Crowder(Mem) -3, J.Crowder(Mia) +20
D.Rose -6
Drummond -7
J.Richardson -7
Hield -8
Wiggins(Min)-11, Wiggins(GSW) -7
Herro -9
Winslow -18

The stats is putting Lebron at +10 and Gobert at +26. Why going off that?

It's showing how dominate they were on both sides of the ball during the regular season...
During the playoffs you go against better players and with that, Gobert basically gets played off the court, but these awards are for the regular season.

Saint Lazarus · Post #192 » by **Saint Lazarus** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:33 am

Damn Middleton really got shafted

Fencer reregistered · Post #193 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:39 am

Saint Lazarus wrote:Damn Middleton really got shafted

My apologies if it's already been covered in this thread, but has anybody totalled up the votes for the three positions?

Guards surely got the least, given that guys who didn't make the team at forward and center got more votes than the 3rd team guards. The biggest example of that is Middleton. The funniest is Embiid/Simmons.

Strictly at a guess, I'd think the main reason for these anomalies is guard votes for Lebron and Butler outweighing any forward votes for Davis or Doncic.

Saint Lazarus · Post #194 » by **Saint Lazarus** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:42 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Saint Lazarus wrote:Damn Middleton really got shafted

My apologies if it's already been covered in this thread, but has anybody totalled up the votes for the three positions?

Guards surely got the least, given that guys who didn't make the team at forward and center got more votes than the 3rd team guards. The biggest example of that is Middleton. The funniest is Embiid/Simmons.

Strictly at a guess, I'd think the main reason for these anomalies is guard votes for Lebron and Butler outweighing any forward votes for Davis or Doncic.

The whole league conspired to get Davis onto the first team as a center but **** up with Middleton and the guard/forward designation.

Middleton should've gotten in as a guard over Westbrook, who doesn't even belong on the all-nba 15th team.

leolozon · Post #195 » by **leolozon** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:15 pm

AirP. wrote:
leolozon wrote:
AirP. wrote:Too bad All-NBA is mostly about scoring in the regular season and not about actually making their teams better.
I go off Dean Oliver's ORTG - DRTG to give the impact they had for their team per 100 possessions off offense and defense.
Also, this is about the regular season, not who you ride or die with in the playoffs.

First team
Giannis +19
Lebron +10
Harden +12
AD +19
Luka +6

Second team
Kawhi +13
Jokic +11
Lillard +9
Cp3 +12
Siakam +2 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Third team
Tatum +5
Butler +15 <- 3rd team?
Gobert +26 <- 3rd team?
Simmons +10
Westbrook -3 <- Shouldn't of made the list

Some others...
Bam +10
Middleton +14
Whiteside +18
S.Adams +16
C.Wood +13
Towns +11
Lowery +10
Anunoby +10
D.Robinson +9
Embiid +9
Nance Jr. +9
B.Lopez +9
Hayward +9
Gallinari +9
Mikal Bridges +9
Sabonis +9
Bledsoe +8
P.Bev +9
VanVleet +7
Leonard +4
D.Mitchell -1
D.Fox -1
J.Murray -1
Dragic -3
Beal -4
J.Crowder(Mem) -3, J.Crowder(Mia) +20
D.Rose -6
Drummond -7
J.Richardson -7
Hield -8
Wiggins(Min)-11, Wiggins(GSW) -7
Herro -9
Winslow -18

The stats is putting Lebron at +10 and Gobert at +26. Why going off that?

It's showing how dominate they were on both sides of the ball during the regular season...
During the playoffs you go against better players and with that, Gobert basically gets played off the court, but these awards are for the regular season.

My point is still the same. According to that stat Gobert was the best player in the league this year and 2.6 times better than Lebron. We know it Ain"t true. Why "go off" that stat?

AirP. · Post #196 » by **AirP.** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:02 pm

leolozon wrote:
AirP. wrote:
leolozon wrote:
The stats is putting Lebron at +10 and Gobert at +26. Why going off that?

It's showing how dominate they were on both sides of the ball during the regular season...
During the playoffs you go against better players and with that, Gobert basically gets played off the court, but these awards are for the regular season.

My point is still the same. According to that stat Gobert was the best player in the league this year and 2.6 times better than Lebron. We know it Ain"t true. Why "go off" that stat?

His IMPACT during the regular season was bigger to his team than LeBron's was.
I have zero problems saying LeBron is the better overall player by a wide margin, that's not what this is about, it's about who were the best players in the league for the SEASON(minus the bubble games). Once again, it's a regular season thing, hence the reason they do the ballots before the playoff when some players may go above and beyond what they did in the regular season.

Some players have a bigger impact in the regular season than the playoffs, Gobert is one of those players, Giannis is also a better regular season player than playoffs and will remain that way till he gets a good midrange shot or good 3pt shot, but he's working on that and could end up being an even better player than LeBron before he's done.

leolozon · Post #197 » by **leolozon** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:21 am

AirP. wrote:
leolozon wrote:
AirP. wrote:It's showing how dominate they were on both sides of the ball during the regular season...
During the playoffs you go against better players and with that, Gobert basically gets played off the court, but these awards are for the regular season.

My point is still the same. According to that stat Gobert was the best player in the league this year and 2.6 times better than Lebron. We know it Ain"t true. Why "go off" that stat?

His IMPACT during the regular season was bigger to his team than LeBron's was.
I have zero problems saying LeBron is the better overall player by a wide margin, that's not what this is about, it's about who were the best players in the league for the SEASON(minus the bubble games). Once again, it's a regular season thing, hence the reason they do the ballots before the playoff when some players may go above and beyond what they did in the regular season.

Some players have a bigger impact in the regular season than the playoffs, Gobert is one of those players, Giannis is also a better regular season player than playoffs and will remain that way till he gets a good midrange shot or good 3pt shot, but he's working on that and could end up being an even better player than LeBron before he's done.

No matter how you slice it, I don't think that Gobert had a bigger impact than Lebron in the RS and certainly not by 26 vs 10. And most advanced stats back it up. I don't believe that stat you brought up and I see no argument in your answer. I never saw anyone used it before.

AirP. · Post #198 » by **AirP.** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:07 am

leolozon wrote:
AirP. wrote:
leolozon wrote:
My point is still the same. According to that stat Gobert was the best player in the league this year and 2.6 times better than Lebron. We know it Ain"t true. Why "go off" that stat?

His IMPACT during the regular season was bigger to his team than LeBron's was.
I have zero problems saying LeBron is the better overall player by a wide margin, that's not what this is about, it's about who were the best players in the league for the SEASON(minus the bubble games). Once again, it's a regular season thing, hence the reason they do the ballots before the playoff when some players may go above and beyond what they did in the regular season.

Some players have a bigger impact in the regular season than the playoffs, Gobert is one of those players, Giannis is also a better regular season player than playoffs and will remain that way till he gets a good midrange shot or good 3pt shot, but he's working on that and could end up being an even better player than LeBron before he's done.

No matter how you slice it, I don't think that Gobert had a bigger impact than Lebron in the RS and certainly not by 26 vs 10. And most advanced stats back it up. I don't believe that stat you brought up and I see no argument in your answer. I never saw anyone used it before.

I've been using it for nearly a decade and it's a simple number that's worked well by for me as long as I understand the role of the player. If you don't like it cool, don't like it.

The ORTG and DRTG are calculations of figuring out how much the player helps his team per 100 possessions, not the flat ORTG and DRTG when the player is on the court that NBA.com uses.

If you look at LeBron's career, you can see how much more dominate he was in his mid 20s with this simple number and the last 3 years he's taken a step back, not because of his skill but because of his regular season effort.

This simple number also shows how much a player like J.Butler effects his teams, something most people don't get since he's not a bigtime scorer.

Spintown · Post #199 » by **Spintown** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:23 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Spintown wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Oh does Jokic get to play alongside LeBron next round as well?

No but he can definitely outplay AD to prove he is better

Awe yes, I cant wait for the rational takes if Jokic outplays AD but the Nuggets lose. Im sure we will plenty of nuanced takes of people giving Jokic credit even if they lose, because that happens so often around here...

I guess we won't have to worry about that tonight

gorz · Post #200 » by **gorz** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:27 am

Spintown wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Spintown wrote:
No but he can definitely outplay AD to prove he is better

Awe yes, I cant wait for the rational takes if Jokic outplays AD but the Nuggets lose. Im sure we will plenty of nuanced takes of people giving Jokic credit even if they lose, because that happens so often around here...

I guess we won't have to worry about that tonight