Updated best young cores

[The Rebel]

it's a good list, but as you admitted you need Memphis in there at about 5. Mavericks are too high with just Doncic and Porizingis as a potential all-star. just two dudes (where all the others have 3-5 guys) with only one being a legit star already. Also, Bridges - potential starter - he is a starter already and plays huge minutes. he might have remote all-star potential as a top 3 and D guy in the entire league.

otherwise good thread and good post.

I would argue 1 player at an MVP level like Luka is worth 2 shots at allstars. Tatum and Jokic are definitely close but i would still have Luka higher.

Jokic was 4th in mpg voting last year and put up the 8th best playoffs statistically in NBA history, sorry but saying he is not on the same level as Luka is a joke.

[dakomish23]

You cannot convince me to take the Nuggets core over Luka. Not a chance in hell.

The Nuggets are playing Conference finals, Luka is getting fat somwhere on the private yacht , Denver is improving every year, Jokic is difference maker as well , he's not that inferior to Luka, Luka is just more selfish player on the offense.

He's better than Jokic while being 4 years younger. This isn't even up for debate. And if Porzingis was healthy we'd be looking at a Mavericks-Lakers match up right now.

That would have been a fun 2nd round series. Not sure who comes out on top but I like the surrounding pieces on DEN more.

[Richard4444]

1. Denver- Jokic, Murray, Michael Porter Jr, Monte Morris, Bol Bol (RFA), Diop
2. Dallas - Doncic, KP, Brunson
3. Celtics - Tatum, Brown, Robert Williams, Grant Williams
4. Memphis - Ja, JJJ, Clarke, Brooks, Melton (RFA), Grayson, Tyus
5. Suns - Booker, Ayton, Oubre, Mikal, Cameron Jonhson,
6. Pelicans - Zion, Ingram, Josh Hart, Lonzo Ball, Hayes, NAW
7. Hawks - Trae Young, John Collins, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Skal (RFA)
8. Timberwolves - KAT, DLO, Malik (RFA), Juancho (RFA), Culver, Okogie, Naz
9. Bucks - Giannis, Divicenzo,
10. Heat - Bam, Herro, Nunn, Derrick (RFA)
11. Bulls - Lavine, Markkanen, Carter Jr, Coby White, Gafford
12. Sixers -Simmons, Matisse, Milton, Furkan
13. Pacers - Sabonis, M Turner, Aaron Holiday
14 Magic - Isaac, Fultz, Gordon, Bamba
15 - Spurs -Dejounte, Derrick Whte, Lonnie Walker, Keldon, Poetl
16. OKC - SGA, Dort, Bazley,
17 - Kings - Fox, Bagley, Jabari
18. Nets - Levert, Allen, Kurucs
19. Knicks. RJ, Mitch, Frank, Randle
20. Raptors - OG, Davis, RHJ, Matt Thomas
21. Hornets -Devonte, PJ, Myles, Monk
22. Utah - Donovan, Bradley
23. GSW - Wiggins, Paschal, Looney, Chriss
24. Cavs- Sexton, Kevin Porter Jr, Garland
25. Wizards - Rui, Troy, Bryant, Wagner
26 - LAC - Shamet, Zubac
27- Portland - Trent, Zach, Afernee
28. Detroit - Kennard, Sekou, Bruce
29- Lakers - Kuzma
30- Houston - None

[Jadoogar]

1. Denver Nuggets - Nikola Jokic (MVP), Jamal Murray (All-NBA), Michael Porter Jr (All-Star), Bol Bol (starter)
2. Dallas Mavericks - Luka Doncic (MVP), Kristaps Porzingis (All-NBA), Jalen Brunson (starter)
3. Boston Celtics - Jayson Tatum (All-NBA), Jaylen Brown (All-NBA), Robert Williams (starter)
4. Miami Heat - Bam Adebayo (All-NBA, Tyler Herro (All-Star), Duncan Robinson (All-Star), Kendrick Nunn (starter)
5. New Orleans Pelicans - Zion Williamson (All-NBA), Brandon Ingram (All-NBA), Lonzo Ball (All-Star), Jaxson Hayes (All-Star)
6. Memphis Grizzlies - Ja Morant (All-NBA), Jaren Jackson Jr (All-NBA), Brandon Clarke (All-Star)
7. Phoenix Suns - Devin Booker (All-NBA), DeAndre Ayton (All-NBA), Kelly Oubre (starter), Mikal Bridges (starter)
8. Atlanta Hawks - Trae Young (All-NBA), John Collins (All-Star), De’Andre Hunter (All-Star), Cameron Reddish (starter)
9. Minnesota Timberwolves - Karl-Anthony Towns (All-NBA), DeAngelo Russell (All-Star), #1 pick (All-Star), Malik Beasley (starter), Josh Okogie (starter)
10. Chicago Bulls - Zach Lavine (All-Star), Lauri Markannen (All-Star), Wendell Carter Jr (All-Star), Coby White (All-Star)

All of these players can't be allstars. Lonzo has shown nothing to signal he could be an allstar.

[manchambo]

In light of these playoffs, i wanted to rexamine the best young cores list. I'm going to define young as 25 years or younger

1. Mavericks - Luka (potential MVP), Porzingis (potential allstar)
2. Celtics - Tatum (all nba), Brown (potential allstar), Robert Williams (likely role player), Grant Williams (likely role player)
3. Nuggets - Jokic (all nba), Murray (potential allstar), Michael Porter Jr (potential allstar)
4. Suns - Booker (potential all nba), Ayton (potential all star), Bridges (potential starter)
5. Pelicans - Zion (potential allstar maybe more), Ingram (allstar), Josh Hart (potential starter), Lonzo Ball (potential role player)
6. Hawks - Trae Young (potential all nba), John Collins (likely allstar), Hunter/Reddish (potential role players)
7. Timberwolves - KAT (all nba), D'angelo (allstar kinda), #1 pick
8. Heat - Bam (potential all nba), Herro (likely starter), Nunn (likely starter)
9. OKC - mostly relying on picks but SGA is potential allstar
10. Bulls - Lavine (potential allstar), Carter jr (potential allstar), Markkanen (likely starter), Coby White (potential starter)

Cavs, Knicks, Hornets, Magic haven't shown much/i don't watch these teams.
Jazz and Philly have 1 core player under 25, i'm unsure how we would rank them.

it's a good list, but as you admitted you need Memphis in there at about 5. Mavericks are too high with just Doncic and Porizingis as a potential all-star. just two dudes (where all the others have 3-5 guys) with only one being a legit star already. Also, Bridges - potential starter - he is a starter already and plays huge minutes. he might have remote all-star potential as a top 3 and D guy in the entire league.

otherwise good thread and good post.

I would argue 1 player at an MVP level like Luka is worth 2 shots at allstars. Tatum and Jokic are definitely close but i would still have Luka higher.

I don't see how you define Jokic as not MVP caliber. This is his second playoffs where he is easily in the MVP discussion.

[DarkAzcura]

I think phrase "best young core" should be reserved for teams that meet two criteria:
1. They are not in the playoffs or barely snuck in for the first time.
2. They do not completely suck. There is some indication of steady improvement over a couple of years.

Memphis and Dallas meets criteria 1. Celtics absolutely do not!
Suns meets criteria 2. T-Wolves and Hawks do not!

Bucks, Celtics, Denver no longer belong in the discussion. When a team like the Celtics (for example) tries to say they also have the best young core, that is like having your cake and eating it too. Make up your mind...is your team a legit title contender, or are they the best young core? If your team is a title contender, then why do you need to make yourselves feel better by dreaming of how you have the best young core? That is a term reserved for daydreaming fans whose team are on the outside of the playoffs.

You edited this post, but it still doesn’t make much sense. Being a good playoff team shouldn’t disqualify you from this discussion. It is actually more evidence that the team is one of the best young cores.

[sportfan6197]

In light of these playoffs, i wanted to rexamine the best young cores list. I'm going to define young as 25 years or younger

1. Mavericks - Luka (potential MVP), Porzingis (potential allstar)
2. Celtics - Tatum (all nba), Brown (potential allstar), Robert Williams (likely role player), Grant Williams (likely role player)
3. Nuggets - Jokic (all nba), Murray (potential allstar), Michael Porter Jr (potential allstar)
4. Suns - Booker (potential all nba), Ayton (potential all star), Bridges (potential starter)
5. Pelicans - Zion (potential allstar maybe more), Ingram (allstar), Josh Hart (potential starter), Lonzo Ball (potential role player)
6. Hawks - Trae Young (potential all nba), John Collins (likely allstar), Hunter/Reddish (potential role players)
7. Timberwolves - KAT (all nba), D'angelo (allstar kinda), #1 pick
8. Heat - Bam (potential all nba), Herro (likely starter), Nunn (likely starter)
9. OKC - mostly relying on picks but SGA is potential allstar
10. Bulls - Lavine (potential allstar), Carter jr (potential allstar), Markkanen (likely starter), Coby White (potential starter)

Cavs, Knicks, Hornets, Magic haven't shown much/i don't watch these teams.
Jazz and Philly have 1 core player under 25, i'm unsure how we would rank them.

You have a glaring omission in the Memphis Grizzlies.

Ja Morant, JJJ, Brandon Clarke, and maybe Brooks.

I knew i was missing someone. i would put them in the 5-6 range and kick out the Bulls.

OKC can't be a young core with future picks. SGA is nice and Dort is a solid role player but they don't belong here with the other teams

[Jadoogar]

You have a glaring omission in the Memphis Grizzlies.

Ja Morant, JJJ, Brandon Clarke, and maybe Brooks.

I knew i was missing someone. i would put them in the 5-6 range and kick out the Bulls.

OKC can't be a young core with future picks. SGA is nice and Dort is a solid role player but they don't belong here with the other teams

I would honestly have SGA over any player on the teams i excluded.
I forgot about the Kings, but Fox would be the closest player.

[europrospect93]

OP forget about some notable youngsters, so order is wrong.

1. Mavericks - Luka (potential MVP), Porzingis (potential allstar)
2. Celtics - Tatum (all nba), Brown (potential allstar), Robert Williams (likely role player), Grant Williams (likely role player)
3. Nuggets - Jokic (potential MVP), Murray (potential allstar), Michael Porter Jr (potential allstar), Bol Bol (potential starter)
4. Suns - Booker (potential all nba), Ayton (potential all star), Bridges (potential starter), Oubre (potential starter)
5. Pelicans - Zion (potential allstar maybe more), Ingram (allstar), Josh Hart (potential starter), Lonzo Ball (potential starter), Jaxson Hayes (potential starter)
6. Hawks - Trae Young (potential all nba), John Collins (likely allstar), Hunter/Reddish (potential starters)
7. Timberwolves - KAT (all nba), D'angelo (allstar kinda), #1 pick, Malik Beasley (starter)
8. Heat - Bam (potential all nba), Herro (likely starter), Nunn (likely starter)
9. OKC - mostly relying on picks but SGA is potential allstar
10. Bulls - Lavine (potential allstar), Carter jr (potential allstar), Markkanen (likely starter), Coby White (potential starter)
Grizlies - Morant (potential allstar), JJJackson (potential allstar), B.Clark (starter), D.Brooks (starter)
Kings - Fox (potential allstar), Bagley (starter, potential allstar), Harry Giles (starter)

Agreed, I would put Tatum as potential MVP also. He is consistently improving and is already an all NBA two way player, he could end up having one in the future or playing at that level.

It's close between the three(Mavs, Nuggets and Cs), I would do it like this:
1a) Nuggets
1b) Mavs
1c) Celtics

But it's very close and could go either way. I think MPJ has a lot of potential and fits the team well but without him I would probably give a nudge to Mavs. Celtics are not that far away either.

[celticfan42487]

OP forget about some notable youngsters, so order is wrong.

1. Mavericks - Luka (potential MVP), Porzingis (potential allstar)
2. Celtics - Tatum (all nba), Brown (potential allstar), Robert Williams (likely role player), Grant Williams (likely role player)
3. Nuggets - Jokic (potential MVP), Murray (potential allstar), Michael Porter Jr (potential allstar), Bol Bol (potential starter)
4. Suns - Booker (potential all nba), Ayton (potential all star), Bridges (potential starter), Oubre (potential starter)
5. Pelicans - Zion (potential allstar maybe more), Ingram (allstar), Josh Hart (potential starter), Lonzo Ball (potential starter), Jaxson Hayes (potential starter)
6. Hawks - Trae Young (potential all nba), John Collins (likely allstar), Hunter/Reddish (potential starters)
7. Timberwolves - KAT (all nba), D'angelo (allstar kinda), #1 pick, Malik Beasley (starter)
8. Heat - Bam (potential all nba), Herro (likely starter), Nunn (likely starter)
9. OKC - mostly relying on picks but SGA is potential allstar
10. Bulls - Lavine (potential allstar), Carter jr (potential allstar), Markkanen (likely starter), Coby White (potential starter)
Grizlies - Morant (potential allstar), JJJackson (potential allstar), B.Clark (starter), D.Brooks (starter)
Kings - Fox (potential allstar), Bagley (starter, potential allstar), Harry Giles (starter)

Instead of meaningless numbers, we should go full fantasy football and use tiers.

The wet dream tier. You have a current or soon to be MVP player and they haven't even entered their prime yet. **** me.

Bucks
Mavs

The rock solid tier. You have an all-nba guy in the stable.

Nuggets (tough call, could easily be in wet dream tier after next season but we all know MVPs decide who wins championship I see Jokick as all-nba level not MVP level. Murray could elevate them to wet dream also, just have to see it next year.)

Celtics (Brown may be done growing. But endless rookies and sophomores on the team and 3 firsts in this draft.. potential to solidify themselves here next year)
Timberwolves (they're here but they're TERRIFIED that despite their talent they aren't in the playoffs or winning like they should)

The feeling just fine tier (young all-star)
(almost all of these could be in the rock solid tier but finding all-stars is easier then all-nbas for any young core)

Pelicans (Zion could easily valut them into wet dream next season, Ingram could carry them to rock solid alone next year)
Suns (easily could be looked at like the Nuggets are by the end of next year)
Hawks ( I knock Trae for his defense so unsure it will translate to playoff wins when he gets help)
Heat
MEM

We ain't mad because we're expecting to soon be glad tier

Kings
OKC

The shouldn't be on this list tier

Bulls (I'm lesser on their talent and not sure those are potential all-stars in that core)

[mr570]

Jokic is a future MVP imo

[Dacost]

I think is unfair to compare a team like the nuggets and Celtics who are young but are all around 25 year old range.

While a team like Memphis is closer to the 20 year old range.

The differents in experince is just night and day.

[celticfan42487]

Jokic is a future MVP imo

I think a lot of that depends on if his 3 point shot he's shown in the playoffs is real or not.

There is a universe apart from a guy that shoots a well below average (36% is average) from 3 on only 3.5 3PA in per game at 31.5% like he did in the regular seaosn.

And someone who is one of the most elite 3 point snipers in the game hitting them at 44% on 6 3PA/g like he is doing in the playoffs.

That's like going from well Al Horford to Klay Thompson from 3 for reference.

That is perhaps the most game changing thing that could occur for a players value. We'll have to see if it's just a hot shooting month or true like... devastating growth.

If so I agree he could be MVP level then. I'm betting he's more of a 34% 3 point shooter than 44%. We'll have to see! So exciting though!

[mr570]

Jokic is a future MVP imo

I think a lot of that depends on if his 3 point shot he's shown in the playoffs is real or not.

There is a universe apart from a guy that shoots a well below average (36% is average) from 3 on only 3.5 3PA in per game at 31.5% like he did in the regular seaosn.

And someone who is one of the most elite 3 point snipers in the game hitting them at 44% on 6 3PA/g like he is doing in the playoffs.

That's like going from well Al Horford to Klay Thompson from 3 for reference.

That is perhaps the most game changing thing that could occur for a players value. We'll have to see if it's just a hot shooting month or true like... devastating growth.

If so I agree he could be MVP level then. I'm betting he's more of a 34% 3 point shooter than 44%. We'll have to see! So exciting though!

Good points. But do you think you are underestimating his passing/playmaking ability a little bit? I don't think he's so dangerous in that PnR with Murray because he's a threat for a pick and pop, you know? It's the fact that defenses try and double him on the roll but he will still find the best shot on the floor.

[celticfan42487]

I think is unfair to compare a team like the nuggets and Celtics who are young but are all around 25 year old range.

While a team like Memphis is closer to the 20 year old range.

The differents in experince is just night and day.

To be honest that comparison really is just this.

Tatum or Morant? About a push.

Can JJJ, 1) stay healthy, and 2) outperform Brown. Very very possible. But honestly, a lot depends on how healthy his body lets him be going forward.

And also it just honestly might be a year or two till Morant makes it to all-nba status. Like... yes these are projections but I took it more as given the information we know going into next year here's where we're at. As with all young cores these things change RAPIDLY. Year to year at the very least if not half year to half year.

[celticfan42487]

Jokic is a future MVP imo

I think a lot of that depends on if his 3 point shot he's shown in the playoffs is real or not.

There is a universe apart from a guy that shoots a well below average (36% is average) from 3 on only 3.5 3PA in per game at 31.5% like he did in the regular seaosn.

And someone who is one of the most elite 3 point snipers in the game hitting them at 44% on 6 3PA/g like he is doing in the playoffs.

That's like going from well Al Horford to Klay Thompson from 3 for reference.

That is perhaps the most game changing thing that could occur for a players value. We'll have to see if it's just a hot shooting month or true like... devastating growth.

If so I agree he could be MVP level then. I'm betting he's more of a 34% 3 point shooter than 44%. We'll have to see! So exciting though!

Good points. But do you think you are underestimating his passing/playmaking ability a little bit? I don't think he's so dangerous in that PnR with Murray because he's a threat for a pick and pop, you know? It's the fact that defenses try and double him on the roll but he will still find the best shot on the floor.

I'm bias when it comes to MVPs and when I look for them I'm looking to see things that guys like Curry, LeBron, Greek Freak and what they do.

All ISO drive to the basket PG styled playmaking.

Jokic doesn't do it that way and you can't just give him the ball with 2 minutes to go from the inbound pass and clear out the court and tell him to win you the game on his own.

MVP level of course is something that in any given year only maybe 4 or 6 players are at.

But yeah MVPs make it to the Finals any given year they have 1 - 2 all-star players next to them (looking at you Kawhi), and I'm only bias because I haven't seen it a long time do I hold that against Jokic's playmaking. He'd have to win it the same way KG did, but KG did it with defense on top of that stuff. If Jokick is a 40% 3 point shooter suddenly and therefore one of the greatest 3 point threats in the game, that sure as **** would be universe shattering enough to get him there haha.

Also given his years in the league he 100% could just have had that growth in his shot. You can never bet on growth but you can look at the results and say yes that is reasonable to have possibly occurred. 5th/6th year a big man reaches a height from 3 he never had... we've seen that happen. In the same vein we've seen PGs breakout in their 5th/6th year in the NBA recently.

[Patsfan1081]

I think is unfair to compare a team like the nuggets and Celtics who are young but are all around 25 year old range.

While a team like Memphis is closer to the 20 year old range.

The differents in experince is just night and day.

? Tatum, Brown, and Murray are nowhere close to 25. Both teams also have a handful of players 19-22 that play meaningful minutes.

[Jadoogar]

I think is unfair to compare a team like the nuggets and Celtics who are young but are all around 25 year old range.

While a team like Memphis is closer to the 20 year old range.

The differents in experince is just night and day.

To be honest that comparison really is just this.

Tatum or Morant? About a push.

Can JJJ, 1) stay healthy, and 2) outperform Brown. Very very possible. But honestly, a lot depends on how healthy his body lets him be going forward.

And also it just honestly might be a year or two till Morant makes it to all-nba status. Like... yes these are projections but I took it more as given the information we know going into next year here's where we're at. As with all young cores these things change RAPIDLY. Year to year at the very least if not half year to half year.

Push? maybe it's just bc my team just lost to him but Tatum is knocking on the superstar door. Morant is great but he only has one season, i lean towards proven talent than just hopes.

[Patsfan1081]

Agreed.

I think whatever potential Jaylen Brown does have doesn't put him in the same conversation as what Jamal Murray is showing for realized potential.

NBA fans love to ignore it because it's not fun. but young players just as often stay about the same or can regress as they do to get better.

And we're in really next season this bubble not last season. Jamal Murray has showed he's taken the leap in that off season and putting up...

27 ppg 5 rpg 6.5 aspg 1 steal on 50% fg and 49% 3 point shooter during his 14 playoff games when it matters most.

Now if that ends up being about his norm that's a potential MVP guy. But even with regression to the mean... don't think it's the mean from last year before the bubble.

We don't know what the mean is yet for him. And a 23 year old player breaking out isn't something that has never happened before.

There's a good chance next year he is at least a 24 ppg 4 rpg 5 aspg guy on 45% fg and 38% from 3

That's an all-star at the very least not a "potential" all star.

Nice objective post. I mean Murray has probably been a top 5-7 player in these entire playoffs. Brown is a guy who can put up 25 pts and hit some 3's every now and then while playing good defense. All star is likely his ceiling.

So are we just going off of the last two playoff series and dismissing everything else. Not trying to downplay Murray because he’s been unreal as of late but you can’t just dismiss his impact on defense or the player he was before the playoffs started. He’s a scorer who’s fg % has been below the league average every year in the league. Previous poster said “players can take the leap”, yeah, they can also go on streaks also. You say Brown can “hit a three every now and then, ” but he’s been a much more efficient three point shooter than Murray over his career.

[beeshma]

I think phrase "best young core" should be reserved for teams that meet two criteria:
1. They are not in the playoffs or barely snuck in for the first time.
2. They do not completely suck. There is some indication of steady improvement over a couple of years.

Memphis and Dallas meets criteria 1. Celtics absolutely do not!
Suns meets criteria 2. T-Wolves and Hawks do not!

Bucks, Celtics, Denver no longer belong in the discussion. When a team like the Celtics (for example) tries to say they also have the best young core, that is like having your cake and eating it too. Make up your mind...is your team a legit title contender, or are they the best young core? If your team is a title contender, then why do you need to make yourselves feel better by dreaming of how you have the best young core? That is a term reserved for daydreaming fans whose team are on the outside of the playoffs.

You edited this post, but it still doesn’t make much sense. Being a good playoff team shouldn’t disqualify you from this discussion. It is actually more evidence that the team is one of the best young cores.

I acknowledged my edits already.
My post makes perfect sense. You just disagree.