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Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron?

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Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#1 » by Mogspan » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:51 pm

Arguments for LeBron:

Highest box and non-box statistical peak in a much, much more internationally competitive and sophisticated era against superior athletes and teams who actually mathematically understand how to play basketball

Far superior versatility and longevity


"Arguments" for MJ:

Romanticized sociopathy

Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"


I have no doubt whatsoever that Kawhi could have three-peated twice in MJ's situation.
Also, something that might surprise people. I think when it comes to athleticism, agility, physical attributes and skill I rate LeBron only in the top 50.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#2 » by HypeMode » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:52 pm

No.

MJ without Pippen:
5 seasons
5 losing seasons
1-9 playoff record


MJ never faced an athletic perimeter defender his size in his prime. He was dominating smaller players like Starks, Hornacek, Byron Scott, Hersey Hawkins, Dan Majerle. LeBron was facing the greatest perimeter defensive team in the finals on a yearly basis. Draymond, KD, Iggy, and Klay is a stacked defensive lineup. MJ never faced a defender as tough as one of those, with the exception of Payton who shut him down, let alone 4 on the same team. Not to mention beasts like Kawhi, Bruce Bowen, Shawn Marion too.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#3 » by LFAHFN22 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:59 pm

I always find it strange that people are so fiercely invested in another man's place in history, especially in comparison to other men. Why can't it be as simple as both of them are amongst the absolute greatest, in the same echelon of greatness?
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#4 » by soxfan2003 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:01 pm

Mogspan wrote:Arguments for LeBron:

Highest box and non-box statistical peak in a much, much more internationally competitive and sophisticated era against superior athletes and teams who actually mathematically understand how to play basketball

Far superior versatility and longevity


"Arguments" for MJ:

Romanticized sociopathy

Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"


I have no doubt whatsoever that Kawhi could have three-peated twice in MJ's situation.


1) better shooter -- check out their free throw averages. Jordan
2) quicker on both offense and defense -- Jordan
3) better dribbler and change direction-- Jordan
4) played against more bigs and didn't benefit from new hand check rules -- Jordan
5) better off ball player -- this is important when playing with stars/great role players that can't shoot that well

I have Lebron better than Jordan but there are lots of arguments in favor of Jordan.

Leonard would not have 3 peated. Leonard is much easier to guard than Michael Jordan.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#5 » by CIN-C-STAR » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:02 pm

"I have no doubt whatsoever that Kawhi could have three-peated twice in MJ's situation." :crazy:
Kawhistans in shambles right now :lol: :lol: :lol:
"I'd rather have Kevin Love spacing out to the three point line than anything (Karl) Malone brings"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#6 » by benson13 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:12 pm

Image

Every team Jordan beat in the Finals was better than 2011 Mavericks. Like literally, there are six teams who would have been NBA champs right now if they had just existed in the 2010-2011 season.

Nice troll thread though.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#7 » by LukaV » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:13 pm

Yes, for me Jordan was unquestionably better at basketball than LeBron. Among other things, he didn't have any huge weaknesses to his game either offensively or defensively, while that could not be said for LeBron (free throwing throughout the career, long-range shooting for a big part of his career). And there's so much more one could say about "MJ > LBJ", but it's all been said before.

And for me, LeBron isn't even #2, players such as KAJ, Magic, Duncan, Bird and Russell are ahead of him in the GOAT rankings, while besides Wilt LeBron has the GOAT athleticism in NBA history and perhaps the GOAT longevity, but to me that doesn't make him GOAT-er than Jordan or the aformentioned players.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#8 » by UcanUwill » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:17 pm

Prime Jordan was before I could very closely follow NBA as an EUropean, but speaking about LeBron, man I have hard time picturing a player better than that.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#9 » by Roddy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:18 pm

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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#10 » by celtics543 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm

Are you slandering the name of John Stockton in the OP? Stockton was a heck of a player and would still be dominant today. If you're going to pick two white guys from Jordan's era to prove it was worse maybe don't start with John Stockton.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#11 » by FlatearthZorro » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:23 pm

celtics543 wrote:Are you slandering the name of John Stockton in the OP? Stockton was a heck of a player and would still be dominant today. If you're going to pick two white guys from Jordan's era to prove it was worse maybe don't start with John Stockton.


Stockton averaged 20/10 for most of his career. :x
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#12 » by Dino353 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:24 pm

People will always say Jordan but I'd take LeBron, LeBron is faster,stronger,and has better court-vision. I was never wowed away by anything Jordan did, LeBron is showtime.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#13 » by CBS7 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:24 pm

> NBA defenders are at their toughest/best right now
> Teams are scoring at a higher rate and efficiency than anytime in the past ~50 years

Pick one. Even if Jordan never develops a real 3 to keep up with today's game, he's still tearing up today's league. If he does, he puts up a few 40+ per game seasons.

I have LeBron in my top 3, and his longevity is otherworldly, but you don't need to put down MJ to prop LeBron up. You call Jordan's teams stacked, when LeBron never won anything without 2+ future HOFers on his team either. MJ never had the spacing LeBron did, and LeBron never had to go against the class of rim protectors that Jordan did. LeBron also has had by far more offensive help than Jordan ever did. Jordan also never choked away a Finals like LeBron did.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#14 » by The Rebel » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:31 pm

He is a better defender ball handler, scorer, and carried a worse team to a 3 peat while LeBron has never led a single 3 peat. Fact is 1 of those guys had dribbling, traveling, and hand checking rules changed while dominating the ball and stat sheet but despite constantly stacking his team still failed when it mattered most.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#15 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:32 pm

CBS7 wrote:> NBA defenders are at their toughest/best right now
> Teams are scoring at a higher rate and efficiency than anytime in the past ~50 years

Pick one.


But it's both...
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#16 » by dribble1614 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:35 pm

of course. he was a much better player. lebron sucked in many finals and playoffs series and is a clearly inferior / less dominant player.

lebron is a statistically and skill-wise far inferior player at his peak. his only argument is longevity because he played longer and jordan chose to retire early and lose 2 years of his prime and retire while still being the best player in 98. unfortunately for lebron, playing longer doesn't make you a better player when you're statistically across the board inferior in the regular season and playoffs. and you've been swept twice in the finals and choked in 2011.

lebron has a very very weak argument for goat and an even stronger argument for being outside the top 5.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#17 » by Roddy » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:37 pm

Mogspan wrote:Scored a lot of points (on worse efficiency even adjusted for era) on impossibly stacked teams against Kurt Rambis and John Stockton with the greatest coach ever while sticking his tongue out and being "feared"


Yeah, that little white guy was a scrub...

Image


(btw, don't see your friend Lebron in those stats...)
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#18 » by Infinite Llamas » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:43 pm

Lebronstans when Denver beats the Clippers: Kawhi chokes against the lowly Nuggets

Lebronstans if Denver beats the Lakers:
Lebron lost to two superstars that would have dominated Jordan in the 90’s
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#19 » by -MetA4- » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:47 pm

Better Offensive Player: Jordan
Better Defensive Player: Jordan
More Clutch Player: Jordan
More Titles: Jordan

But LeBron gets more rebounds and assists playing in an era where both teams score 120 a game lmao.
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Re: Is there a reasonable argument that MJ was actually better at basketball than LeBron? 

Post#20 » by Sgt Major » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:50 pm

It's MJ and the field. You debate about 2nd, top 10, best at positions blah blah, but MJ is the undisputed GOAT.
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