Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995)

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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#21 » by A_Biased_Fan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:19 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:Greatest all-around player makes it seem like he's the best. I could buy most complete at that point with MJ out of the league but Pippen wasn't better than Hakeem or David Robinson in 1995.


They were better players (Hakeem especially), but were they really better all-around? Pippen could play point forward and initiate the offense, DRob or Hakeem couldn't do that. The point of this is that Pippen was basically a lesser version of Lebron in his day.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#22 » by A_Biased_Fan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:21 pm

jptremblay wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Of course. MJ was a way better scorer, leader and clutch player, but Pippen was better at everything else(defense, playmaking, rebounding) while being a pretty good scorer also.

He was a legit Top 5 player and perfect #2 like AD nowadays.

Nope, he wasn't a top 5 player.


Top 3 in MVP voting in 93-94. A legit case for him being top 5 in the mid 90's is not out of bounds.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#23 » by Dutchball97 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:25 pm

A_Biased_Fan wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:Greatest all-around player makes it seem like he's the best. I could buy most complete at that point with MJ out of the league but Pippen wasn't better than Hakeem or David Robinson in 1995.


They were better players (Hakeem especially), but were they really better all-around? Pippen could play point forward and initiate the offense, DRob or Hakeem couldn't do that. The point of this is that Pippen was basically a lesser version of Lebron in his day.


Yeah I feel like all-around has a different meaning than allround. Or it's just me reading too much into a 25 year old statement.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#24 » by zimpy27 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:28 pm

He was a top 5 player in NBA in his prime peak.

Top 10 for at least 8 seasons.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#25 » by The Laker Kid » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:36 pm

Too bad he retired before meeting CARUSO
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#26 » by FreeThrowLine » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:58 pm

Dino353 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:mj was a better defender than pippen. that is no slight to pippen as he was great defensively and often guarded the best wing scorer on the other team to allow mike more energy for the offensive end, but mike was the best wing defender in the world - arguably the best wing defender of all time.


Really? I recall Marbury and Iverson shaking Jordan out of his shoes.


If that's how you judge a defenders abilities then you may as well stop watching basketball
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#27 » by FreeThrowLine » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:03 pm

Jackson was the master of mind games, he knew what he was doing when he said this and it's obvious even he didn't believe it.

Pippen was a better rebounder due to his length and depending on matchups a better defender, but Jordan was better at everything else including playmaking. It's ridiculous that people would throw in playmaking as if Pippen was this great playmaker. Jordan was easily the better playmaker and not that average assists are the determining factor because there's context but MJ averaged more and he didn't have the benefit of passing to himself.

Anyone that watched them play without bias knows MJ was a better playmaker, this notion that Pippen was anything special in that regard is just another in a long list of certain desperate fans looking for anything to prop up their hero by trying to make us not notice the help he's getting, too obvious guys
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#28 » by Dmagic » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:10 pm

the thing is--jordan reached a point that he couLD DO NO WRONG--lebron is always fighting an up hill battle it seems--but the thing about lebron is when he tries as hard as he can--its awesome to see win or lose--jordan was winning, we already knew
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#29 » by draftnightsuit » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:43 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:phill also thought trading assets for bargnani was a good idea. just for context. Best coach I ever saw.... but idk about talent evaluation


That wasn’t Phil Jackson, that was Glen Grunwald.

As for the video, it’s 100% correct. The Bulls won 55 games replacing Jordan with Pete Myers.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#30 » by A_Biased_Fan » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:50 pm

FreeThrowLine wrote:Jackson was the master of mind games, he knew what he was doing when he said this and it's obvious even he didn't believe it.

Pippen was a better rebounder due to his length and depending on matchups a better defender, but Jordan was better at everything else including playmaking. It's ridiculous that people would throw in playmaking as if Pippen was this great playmaker. Jordan was easily the better playmaker and not that average assists are the determining factor because there's context but MJ averaged more and he didn't have the benefit of passing to himself.

Anyone that watched them play without bias knows MJ was a better playmaker, this notion that Pippen was anything special in that regard is just another in a long list of certain desperate fans looking for anything to prop up their hero by trying to make us not notice the help he's getting, too obvious guys


Or we could switch it around and say desperate MJ fans love to denigrate a guy in Scottie who was top 5 in the league in his prime. And his own coach called him the best all around player in the NBA...but it was all mind games and he didn't mean it, sure. When Scottie was top 3 in MVP voting in 94 was that mind games by the voters too? :D
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#31 » by Hyaena » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:53 pm

Hakeem was the top dog in 1994 and 1995, at least when it counted most.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#32 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:15 pm

No question about it. I mean, they almost reached the finals with him. Imagine a coach who ran a different system with Scottie as the focal point. They would've won just as much. He was the greatest all round player of the 90s. Top ten player back then for sure. He could do everything. Unfortunately overshadowed by the legend of MJ.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#33 » by FreeThrowLine » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:18 pm

A_Biased_Fan wrote:
FreeThrowLine wrote:Jackson was the master of mind games, he knew what he was doing when he said this and it's obvious even he didn't believe it.

Pippen was a better rebounder due to his length and depending on matchups a better defender, but Jordan was better at everything else including playmaking. It's ridiculous that people would throw in playmaking as if Pippen was this great playmaker. Jordan was easily the better playmaker and not that average assists are the determining factor because there's context but MJ averaged more and he didn't have the benefit of passing to himself.

Anyone that watched them play without bias knows MJ was a better playmaker, this notion that Pippen was anything special in that regard is just another in a long list of certain desperate fans looking for anything to prop up their hero by trying to make us not notice the help he's getting, too obvious guys


Or we could switch it around and say desperate MJ fans love to denigrate a guy in Scottie who was top 5 in the league in his prime. And his own coach called him the best all around player in the NBA...but it was all mind games and he didn't mean it, sure. When Scottie was top 3 in MVP voting in 94 was that mind games by the voters too? :D


Pippen had a great year in 94, Pippen was one of the best players in the league in his prime, but personally I didn’t have him in the top 5. None of that changes what I wrote.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#34 » by WillyJakkz » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:mj was a better defender than pippen. that is no slight to pippen as he was great defensively and often guarded the best wing scorer on the other team to allow mike more energy for the offensive end, but mike was the best wing defender in the world - arguably the best wing defender of all time.


Yet he got abused by Magic Johnson so Pip had to guard him...
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#35 » by The4thHorseman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:49 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote: mj was a better defender than pippen. that is no slight to pippen as he was great defensively and often guarded the best wing scorer on the other team to allow mike more energy for the offensive end, but mike was the best wing defender in the world - arguably the best wing defender of all time.

:lol:

MJ defended wings while Scottie defended everything.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#36 » by The4thHorseman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:57 pm

Scottie by far was the best all-round / 2nd option / 2nd best player on a team, in the league, from 1992-1998 (outside of 1994 when he was first option)
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#37 » by Shanghai Kid » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:32 am

Am I crazy or did Pippen during the entire 3-peat in the 96-98 playoffs basically average 18/7/5 on 50% TS? And, his advanced stats aren't amazing. 19 Per, .155 WS/48, 6.0 BPM,

I mean those are good numbers, and I understand he was an elite defensive player, but there seems to be a narrative push to make him a top 5 player and a 1b to MJ's 1a. "Two MVPs" playing together is where the narrative is moving towards.

But, MJ literally was averaging 15ppg more than him in certain playoff runs, while also providing elite defense and on way better efficiency. And the advanced stats suggest a huge gap between them.

Was Pip really a top 5 player with those numbers? And mind you, the Bulls didn't have a stacked supporting cast offensively. There was an entire playoff run where MJ and Pip are the only guys on the team averaging double figures.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#38 » by camby23 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:34 am

SeattleJazzFan wrote:mj was a better defender than pippen. that is no slight to pippen as he was great defensively and often guarded the best wing scorer on the other team to allow mike more energy for the offensive end, but mike was the best wing defender in the world - arguably the best wing defender of all time.


not really

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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#39 » by WHITE_HOT_HEAT » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:56 am

Scottie is so disrespected to build MJ's legend by the media of the 90's and the NBA. A lot of it was also actively trying to keep his value low by the stingy Bulls FO.
If he was playing in this era, he would probably be the first option instead of MJ on the team. The LeBron/Curry of the team, with MJ being the Durant.
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Re: Phil Jackson says Scottie Pippen is the greatest all-around player in the NBA (1995) 

Post#40 » by trueballer7 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:19 pm

WillyJakkz wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:mj was a better defender than pippen. that is no slight to pippen as he was great defensively and often guarded the best wing scorer on the other team to allow mike more energy for the offensive end, but mike was the best wing defender in the world - arguably the best wing defender of all time.


Yet he got abused by Magic Johnson so Pip had to guard him...

No, Magic abused Pippen posting him up at will. Jordan defended Magic end to end for 85% of the Finals whilst outplaymaking him( Magic Johnson that is) whilst averaging 31 on 56% fg as a teo guardwhilst having a Finals game where he scored on 13 consecutive baskets whilst having the clutch equalizer over Divac. It doesnt get any more all around perfect than that

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