Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

[twyzted]

Imagine if lebron didnt require the team hes joining not having to trade all there assets to win now, like putting together a team. Thats what the bulls did made a great team who did well when Jordan left. So imo that is better then leaving a dumpster fire of overpaid role players.

The NBA has changed. Players have significantly more influence on roster and coaching moves. I believe it is actually a testament that Lebron can produce 3 championships on three different teams. Proves he can deliver a championship in a multitude of team settings.

Wizards were 26-21 when Jordan injured his knee. So on their way to the playoffs.

Good point

He scored 51 points as 40 year old, next game casual 45. And with that 51 point game became the first and only player to score 50 points in 3 diffrent decades. No other player has even gotten 40.

What does this have to do with anything? Frankly he was not a value add at that point in his career and was an inefficient chucker going on a farewell tour who ranked 152th and 113rd in TS% among guards who played 20+mpg in those seasons. Sorry he was just plane bad, similar to Kobe's last year. Basically a player who had a negative impact on winning.

Wizards in 00/01 19-63
01/02 add Jordan. Are on 47 win pace, Jordan tears his meniscus still tries to play. He was gradully getting better
Last 20 games before injury.
27.5 ppg 6.4 rpg 5.2 apg 1.3 spg on 44%
Last 10 games before injury
29.7 ppg 6.6 rpg 6.1 apg 1.3 spg on 47%
Jordan gets injured they end up 37-45
So Jordan did add alot to a team

00/01 wizards 29th team defence
01/02 11th team defence

Lakers add Lbj go from 35-47 to 37-45.

But nice cherry picking ts%

[LAKESHOW]

Bron the Goat

[Retro_Junkball]

longevity: lebron
career peak: shaq

so why exactly should we consider MJ the goat?

Since when was accomplishing less in a greater amount of time considered an accomplishment for GOAT?

Less championships
Less Finals MVPs
Less regular season MVPs
Less scoring per game
Less defensive first teams
Less defensive player of the years

Shaq had a better career peak than MJ? You're reaching son.

Pretty much. Peak Shaq wasn't too much of a reach, though.

[Gregoire]

For me Lebron is second now. MJ first.

Pro Lebron:
Better longevity
Better prime longevity
Stronger era in general
Won with different teams
Stats, records

Pro Jordan:
Better peak/prime
Winning
Clutch factor
Accolades
Charisma
Stronger and less childish personalty
Less modern benefits (analytics, training, food ect)
Less inflated stats by era

[Alize]

Lol "winning", "clutch factor" and "charisma"

For me Lebron is second now. MJ first.

Pro Lebron:
Better longevity
Better prime longevity
Stronger era in general
Won with different teams
Stats, records

Pro Jordan:
Better peak/prime
Winning
Clutch factor
Accolades
Charisma
Stronger and less childish personalty
Less modern benefits (analytics, training, food ect)
Less inflated stats by era

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[Alize]

Nice cherry picking, but they missed the playoffs just like the Lakers missed last years playoffs when LeBron was injured. So whats your point? We know Jordan was a chucker who could put up 60 and still get swept regardless.

Imagine if lebron didnt require the team hes joining not having to trade all there assets to win now, like putting together a team. Thats what the bulls did made a great team who did well when Jordan left. So imo that is better then leaving a dumpster fire of overpaid role players.

The NBA has changed. Players have significantly more influence on roster and coaching moves. I believe it is actually a testament that Lebron can produce 3 championships on three different teams. Proves he can deliver a championship in a multitude of team settings.

Wizards were 26-21 when Jordan injured his knee. So on their way to the playoffs.

Good point

He scored 51 points as 40 year old, next game casual 45. And with that 51 point game became the first and only player to score 50 points in 3 diffrent decades. No other player has even gotten 40.

What does this have to do with anything? Frankly he was not a value add at that point in his career and was an inefficient chucker going on a farewell tour who ranked 152th and 113rd in TS% among guards who played 20+mpg in those seasons. Sorry he was just plane bad, similar to Kobe's last year. Basically a player who had a negative impact on winning.

Wizards in 00/01 19-63
01/02 add Jordan. Are on 47 win pace, Jordan tears his meniscus still tries to play. He was gradully getting better
Last 20 games before injury.
27.5 ppg 6.4 rpg 5.2 apg 1.3 spg on 44%
Last 10 games before injury
29.7 ppg 6.6 rpg 6.1 apg 1.3 spg on 47%
Jordan gets injured they end up 37-45
So Jordan did add alot to a team

00/01 wizards 29th team defence
01/02 11th team defence

Lakers add Lbj go from 35-47 to 37-45.

But nice cherry picking ts%

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[twyzted]

Nice cherry picking, but they missed the playoffs just like the Lakers missed last years playoffs when LeBron was injured. So whats your point? We know Jordan was a chucker who could put up 60 and still get swept regardless.

The NBA has changed. Players have significantly more influence on roster and coaching moves. I believe it is actually a testament that Lebron can produce 3 championships on three different teams. Proves he can deliver a championship in a multitude of team settings.



Good point



What does this have to do with anything? Frankly he was not a value add at that point in his career and was an inefficient chucker going on a farewell tour who ranked 152th and 113rd in TS% among guards who played 20+mpg in those seasons. Sorry he was just plane bad, similar to Kobe's last year. Basically a player who had a negative impact on winning.

Wizards in 00/01 19-63
01/02 add Jordan. Are on 47 win pace, Jordan tears his meniscus still tries to play. He was gradully getting better
Last 20 games before injury.
27.5 ppg 6.4 rpg 5.2 apg 1.3 spg on 44%
Last 10 games before injury
29.7 ppg 6.6 rpg 6.1 apg 1.3 spg on 47%
Jordan gets injured they end up 37-45
So Jordan did add alot to a team

00/01 wizards 29th team defence
01/02 11th team defence

Lakers add Lbj go from 35-47 to 37-45.

But nice cherry picking ts%

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

i dont think you even know what cherry picking is.
And did you miss the part that Jordan got injured.
Call him chucker all you want but that does not change anything about that 6/6 is better than 4/4 or 4/10.

And the point is that a 38yr old Jordan could improve the team he joined
And that wizards team was an absolut garbage before Jordan joined.
And i mean was lebron not sweept in the finals avg triple double? And got sweept another time also.

[Alize]

Who else joined the Wizards that offseason? We need to look on the context of things.
Russel 11 > 6, so Russel is the best.

Nice cherry picking, but they missed the playoffs just like the Lakers missed last years playoffs when LeBron was injured. So whats your point? We know Jordan was a chucker who could put up 60 and still get swept regardless.

Wizards in 00/01 19-63
01/02 add Jordan. Are on 47 win pace, Jordan tears his meniscus still tries to play. He was gradully getting better
Last 20 games before injury.
27.5 ppg 6.4 rpg 5.2 apg 1.3 spg on 44%
Last 10 games before injury
29.7 ppg 6.6 rpg 6.1 apg 1.3 spg on 47%
Jordan gets injured they end up 37-45
So Jordan did add alot to a team

00/01 wizards 29th team defence
01/02 11th team defence

Lakers add Lbj go from 35-47 to 37-45.

But nice cherry picking ts%

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

i dont think you even know what cherry picking is.
And did you miss the part that Jordan got injured.
Call him chucker all you want but that does not change anything about that 6/6 is better than 4/4 or 4/10.

And the point is that a 38yr old Jordan could improve the team he joined
And that wizards team was an absolut garbage before Jordan joined.
And i mean was lebron not sweept in the finals avg triple double? And got sweept another time also.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[kiwinbafan05]

For me Lebron is second now. MJ first.

Pro Lebron:
Better longevity
Better prime longevity
Stronger era in general
Won with different teams
Stats, records

Pro Jordan:
Better peak/prime
Winning
Clutch factor
Accolades
Charisma
Stronger and less childish personalty
Less modern benefits (analytics, training, food ect)
Less inflated stats by era

Are you trying to argue for LeBron?

[Sark]

Pretty good podcast on GOAT topic if anyone is interested




https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nerd-sesh/id1510923608?i=1000494552730

[twyzted]

Who else joined the Wizards that offseason? We need to look on the context of things.
Russel 11 > 6, so Russel is the best.

Nice cherry picking, but they missed the playoffs just like the Lakers missed last years playoffs when LeBron was injured. So whats your point? We know Jordan was a chucker who could put up 60 and still get swept regardless.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

i dont think you even know what cherry picking is.
And did you miss the part that Jordan got injured.
Call him chucker all you want but that does not change anything about that 6/6 is better than 4/4 or 4/10.

And the point is that a 38yr old Jordan could improve the team he joined
And that wizards team was an absolut garbage before Jordan joined.
And i mean was lebron not sweept in the finals avg triple double? And got sweept another time also.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Ok
https://www.basketball-reference.com
Go on.
Maybe russell is the best? I never watched him so i wont rank him over guys i saw play.
But it dosent change the fact that Jordan is better then Lebron.

[Alize]

So you leave out that Rip Hamilton was also injured more than 5 weeks during the time MJ was injured. Therefore you cant just conclude the Wizards missed the playoffs just because Jordan missed time.

Who else joined the Wizards that offseason? We need to look on the context of things.
Russel 11 > 6, so Russel is the best.

i dont think you even know what cherry picking is.
And did you miss the part that Jordan got injured.
Call him chucker all you want but that does not change anything about that 6/6 is better than 4/4 or 4/10.

And the point is that a 38yr old Jordan could improve the team he joined
And that wizards team was an absolut garbage before Jordan joined.
And i mean was lebron not sweept in the finals avg triple double? And got sweept another time also.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Ok
https://www.basketball-reference.com
Go on.
Maybe russell is the best? I never watched him so i wont rank him over guys i saw play.
But it dosent change the fact that Jordan is better then Lebron.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

[trueballer7]

Lebron is right where he was before this, somewhere between top 5 and top 10 and thats generous. No top 5 player would have stacked the deck in his favor so shamelessly, and gotten so many benefits and from the league, his corporate masters, rules, reffs etc only to end up with only 4 titles, 3 of which came in the most unconvincing ways, in 17 years and I seriously doubt anyone within the top 10 would fair worse either.
By the way, ratings were at an all time low. Aint never seen a top 2 player that nobody cared to watch

[Warriorfan]

Warriors draft 2 star players with their lottery picks.

Lets say Curry and the Warriors knock out Lebron 2 or 3 times on the way to the Championship.

Lebron becomes Chamberlain to Curry's Russell never really in the mix for GOAT.

[nikster]

Lebron is right where he was before this, somewhere between top 5 and top 10 and thats generous. No top 5 player would have stacked the deck in his favor so shamelessly, and gotten so many benefits and from the league, his corporate masters, rules, reffs etc only to end up with only 4 titles, 3 of which came in the most unconvincing ways, in 17 years and I seriously doubt anyone within the top 10 would fair worse either.
By the way, ratings were at an all time low. Aint never seen a top 2 player that nobody cared to watch

LeBron's been a leader in jersey sales and a ratings draw for almost 2 decades. By the way, we were in the middle of a pandemic that affected ratings of all sports

[trueballer7]

Lebron is right where he was before this, somewhere between top 5 and top 10 and thats generous. No top 5 player would have stacked the deck in his favor so shamelessly, and gotten so many benefits and from the league, his corporate masters, rules, reffs etc only to end up with only 4 titles, 3 of which came in the most unconvincing ways, in 17 years and I seriously doubt anyone within the top 10 would fair worse either.
By the way, ratings were at an all time low. Aint never seen a top 2 player that nobody cared to watch

LeBron's been a leader in jersey sales and a ratings draw for almost 2 decades. By the way, we were in the middle of a pandemic that affected ratings of all sports

The 2020 NBA Finals nobody watched. Game 6 nobody watched. There must be a reason why you ignore the record drop off in interest that far exceeds all other sports

[Creativetran]

Lebron is the goat. Jordan couldnt do these things at 35.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Jordan had a higher peak AND that is what matters in the GOAT discussion IMO

[nikster]

Lebron is right where he was before this, somewhere between top 5 and top 10 and thats generous. No top 5 player would have stacked the deck in his favor so shamelessly, and gotten so many benefits and from the league, his corporate masters, rules, reffs etc only to end up with only 4 titles, 3 of which came in the most unconvincing ways, in 17 years and I seriously doubt anyone within the top 10 would fair worse either.
By the way, ratings were at an all time low. Aint never seen a top 2 player that nobody cared to watch

LeBron's been a leader in jersey sales and a ratings draw for almost 2 decades. By the way, we were in the middle of a pandemic that affected ratings of all sports

The 2020 NBA Finals nobody watched. Game 6 nobody watched. There must be a reason why you ignore the record drop off in interest that far exceeds all other sports

The drop off is a combination of the pandemic and the BLM messaging. Nothing to do with Lebron

[twyzted]

So you leave out that Rip Hamilton was also injured more than 5 weeks during the time MJ was injured. Therefore you cant just conclude the Wizards missed the playoffs just because Jordan missed time.

Who else joined the Wizards that offseason? We need to look on the context of things.
Russel 11 > 6, so Russel is the best.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Ok
https://www.basketball-reference.com
Go on.
Maybe russell is the best? I never watched him so i wont rank him over guys i saw play.
But it dosent change the fact that Jordan is better then Lebron.

Sent from my SM-G950F using RealGM mobile app

Jordan was injured from february 24 2002 until march 20th 2002
Richard Hamiltob was injured from december 22nd 2001 until january 31st 2002.
So how can hamilton be injured on the same time Jordan was injured? If he was playing at the time of Jordans injury?
So yes i can conclude that the wizards missed the playoffs because of Jordans injury.
Also did you find out what players the wizards added in the summer of 2001?

[twyzted]

LeBron's been a leader in jersey sales and a ratings draw for almost 2 decades. By the way, we were in the middle of a pandemic that affected ratings of all sports

The 2020 NBA Finals nobody watched. Game 6 nobody watched. There must be a reason why you ignore the record drop off in interest that far exceeds all other sports

The drop off is a combination of the pandemic and the BLM messaging. Nothing to do with Lebron

Lebron has 2 worst rated finals ever.
His best is 3 million lower than Jordans worst.
Edit: i looked at the wrong number. It closer to few hundred thousand but his best does not beat Jordans worst.
Lebron has had the best selling jersey for 5 seasons since coming into the league.
Kobe has 6 seasons in 1 decade as the best selling jersey.