DonaldSanders wrote: OdomFan wrote:
I'm saying there probably should be some clarification whether the player won without a current all-star from that year or if the player won without anyone that ever was an all-star. They are obviously different things, and having players that never made it to an all star game would obviously be harder. Pretty simple logic, nothing silly about that.
Perhaps 3 categories -- zero all-star appearances for the career, all star after the chip, and all-star before the chip.
I mean the 2011 Mavs have Jason Kidd, ya it's not all-star Jason Kidd but it's really not the same thing as say someone who was never an all-star, or as you point out, a rookie like Cassell or Manu who weren't yet at full potential but still better than "not an all star" sounds.
We're talking about players who won the championship in that moment with no fellow all star next to them. Hakeem didn't have one in 94, and neither did Duncan in 2003.
Gotcha. Neither did Dirk in 2011.
Dnt hate wrote:In 94 Cassell was a rookie and averaging 6 pts in regular season and 9 in playoffs so ya he counts as an obvious non allstar
I think it's clearly fair to say that Cassell was nowhere near all-star quality, I mean you can also make the argument Cassell should never have been an all-star lol. I was more trying to clarify if they were talking AS at any point and pointing out Manu/Parker on the 2003 Spurs in terms of actual advantages the players provided. Neither Parker or Ginobili were in their primes but "zero all stars besides Duncan" doesn't quite tell the story correctly like it does when you mention Olajuwon on the Rockets. I typed pretty fast in the other posts and definitely could have done a better job clarifying what I was trying to say.
Hakeem's first title had Otis Thorpe, 2 years removed from a lone all-star appearance, and slightly reduced in terms of volume scoring, but still considered the Rockets 2nd best player. The next year they traded him for Drexler, who didn't make an all-star team the year of the trade, but made it every other year.
2011 Dirk had 4 former all-stars: Kidd 1 year removed, Marion 4 years removed, Caron Butler (injured) 4 years removed, Peja 7 years removed, + a future all-star in Tyson Chandler 2 years away. Jason Terry never made an all-star team.
2003 Duncan had David Robinson 2 years removed from his final all-star, Steve Smith 5 years removed, Kevin Willis 11 years!! Parker made his first all-star team 4 years later, and Ginobili did it 2 years later. Stephen Jackson never made an all-star team.
I'm not really sure if "all-star in the current year" is a useful metric, but these are the 3 guys who have done it most recently, I think. I think it's fair to note than Hakeem's first championship probably had the least "all-star equity" or something like that.