Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon?

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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#41 » by ItsDanger » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:02 pm

AD does not defend 5's all the time. Hakeem is the all time blocks leader. I give Hakeem a solid edge defensively.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#42 » by JonFromVA » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:06 pm

We don't have on-court/off-court data for Hakeem, so these things are tricky; but when trying to compare AD's ability to dominate and raise a team's level of defense these stats do NOT make the case for him:

Lakers net ORTG with AD (on - off): -0.5
Lakers net DRTG with AD (on - off): +1.3
Lakers net RTG with AD (on - off): -1.8

Lakers net eFG% (on-off): -1.1%
Lakers net eFG% Allowed (on-off): +1.7%

Lakers net +/- with Davis (on-off): -0.4

Davis has an overall eFG% of 54.3%, but in the clutch that drops to 46.6% as his effectiveness scoring the ball near the rim drops from nearly 70% (amazing) to 50% (poor) and 42.9% if you eliminate his dunks which were all assisted.

Basically the Lakers played at a high-level with or without Davis, they even managed to play around .500 ball without LeBron - but it's clear James is the star and the other players on the team are just planets in his orbit. The data strongly indicates that he's what made the Lakers great, and that overshadows everyone else's contribution.

Unless/until Davis starts carrying the Lakers, I think it will be hard even unfair to compare him to a player who obviously was the engine of his team like Hakeem.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#43 » by timO » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:07 pm

Hakeem win the chips being the alfa, call me when AD do that.

AD is a great second option, like Curry.

But they are vassals of Bron and KD respectively.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#44 » by Warriorfan » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:11 pm

Olajawon played in the era of the big man AD era of the PG.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#45 » by OdomFan » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:33 pm

Olajuwon was the most skilled/talented big man of an era that was filled with elite skilled/talented big men. No way AD has an argument over him. Heck, he was already arguably top 3 centers of the 80s during that era.

AD is great and all, but I wouldn't take him over Patrick Ewing or David Robinson let alone the Dream.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#46 » by Woodsanity » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:34 pm

Olajuwon might be the only got to ever win a ring without another all star. Olajuwon is miles better than AD.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#47 » by Woodsanity » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:36 pm

timO wrote:Hakeem win the chips being the alfa, call me when AD do that.

AD is a great second option, like Curry.

But they are vassals of Bron and KD respectively.

Curry already won a ring without KD. Don't put KD in the same sentence as Lebron.
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#48 » by Woodsanity » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:38 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:Without MJ Hakeem probably has 4 or 5 titles.....

The stats are actually pretty close-

The difference is Hakeem wasn't out there chucking up 3's like AD does.

how about this question-

MJ and Hakeem

or

LeBron and AD?

who wins that 2 on 2?

(hint MJ always wins....)


Swap Hakeem and AD and I could very well choose the second team imo.
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#49 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:40 pm

Nope. Jordan was taken after Hakeem in the draft and no one was ever even mad about it.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#50 » by PizzaSteve » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:42 pm

Having seen career of both, not even close. A few impressive moments on a stacked team against an east div 5th seed, a hobbled Denver (who took them to the edge), with long intervals of dissappearing in playoffs (this year and in past) is not HOF level. Crazy.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#51 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:46 pm

OdomFan wrote:Olajuwon was the most skilled/talented big man of an era that was filled with elite skilled/talented big men. No way AD has an argument over him. Heck, he was already arguably top 3 centers of the 80s during that era.

AD is great and all, but I wouldn't take him over Patrick Ewing or David Robinson let alone the Dream.


I would absolutely take Davis over Ewing, in a heartbeat. Robinson and especially Dream, very probably not. Although I've always thought the general similarities between Davis and Robinson are striking. Different levels of athleticism, very similar mindsets / offensive games.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#52 » by og15 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:46 pm

With accolades he doesn’t have an argument, so how would he even come close without? His accolades so far are All-Star games, some All-NBA teams, one ring and....

Of course he has time to do a lot more in his career, he’s just 27 years old, probably has at least another 6-7 strong years of play left.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#53 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:48 pm

PizzaSteve wrote:Having seen career of both, not even close. A few impressive moments on a stacked team against an east div 5th seed, a hobbled Denver (who took them to the edge), with long intervals of dissappearing in playoffs (this year and in past) is not HOF level. Crazy.


This is an extremely poor summation of Davis' playoffs. He was outstanding.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#54 » by lamscott » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:52 pm

I'm a huge Laker fan.

My answer.

Hell NO. Don't ever disrepect Olajuwon like that.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#55 » by PizzaSteve » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
PizzaSteve wrote:Having seen career of both, not even close. A few impressive moments on a stacked team against an east div 5th seed, a hobbled Denver (who took them to the edge), with long intervals of dissappearing in playoffs (this year and in past) is not HOF level. Crazy.


This is an extremely poor summation of Davis' playoffs. He was outstanding.

I like AD (always have) and dont like LBJ, but in key moments Lebron and the bench carried him. He played great in spurts, but given his unbelievable advantages offensively against Miami, he was far less impressive to me than he should have been. A 5th seed missing its starting point guard, playing very young players and a washed up Iguadala should have been swept by 20 every game with that LA team.

But just my opinion. I watched every game and regularly watched LA and Pell games (loved idea of Boogie and AD, even though it didn't pan out). In the Finals I thought he was meh given the matchups. LBJ was amazing, and I felt he carried the team in key moments...against an inspired, but out manned Miami. It annoyed me how LBJ could foul on both offense and defense with impunity and was almost never called, but it didnt change the outcome. The game 6 play where LBJ elbows Crowder in the face on an offensive drive and gets 2 plus and and1, its reviewed and confirmed, was just a summary of the series for me. I felt LA was inevitable, but didnt play particularly well, except in a few stretches. It was written that LA would win for Kobe, so no suprise they also got a favorable whistle too. LA was less disciplined and needed a loose whistle, except when someone dared to brush the air near LBJ on a drive and score (where he inevitably threw elbows, travelled and scored). But he was aggressive. Cant blame him he was the best player on the floor and refs reward the aggression and skill by giving HOFers the benefit of doubt. Butler was inspiring, but not enough.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#56 » by RoundMoundOfRebound » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:04 pm

:nonono:

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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#57 » by r0drig0lac » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:06 pm

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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#58 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:08 pm

PizzaSteve wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
PizzaSteve wrote:Having seen career of both, not even close. A few impressive moments on a stacked team against an east div 5th seed, a hobbled Denver (who took them to the edge), with long intervals of dissappearing in playoffs (this year and in past) is not HOF level. Crazy.


This is an extremely poor summation of Davis' playoffs. He was outstanding.

I like AD (always have) and dont like LBJ, but in key moments Labron and the bench carried him. He played great in spurts, but given his unbelievable advantages offensively against Miami, he was far less impressive to me than he should have been. A 5th seed missing its starting point guard, playing very young players and a washed up Iguadala should have been swept by 20 every game with that LA team.

But just my opinion. I watched every game and regularly watched LA and Pell games (loved idea of Boogie and AD, even though it didn't pan out). In the Finals I thought he was meh given the matchups. LBJ was amazing, and I felt cwrried the team in key moments against an inspired, but out manned Miami (though it annoyed me how he could foul on both offense and defense with impunity and was almost never called). The game 6 play where LBJ elbows Crowder in the face on an offensive drive and gets 2 plus and and1, its reviewed and confirmed, was just a summary of the series for me. It was written that LA would win for Kobe.


I guess. Obviously you're not going to just consistently post him up and ride him like a traditional center, certainly not one as incredible as Dream. But despite having a few down games he just put up 25 on 57/42/94 splits against a team that made the decision after Game 2 that they weren't going to let him beat them. There's a reason the Lakers just set a record for most 3s in a six-game Finals, and it's not because we have good shooters.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#59 » by PizzaSteve » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:11 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
PizzaSteve wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
This is an extremely poor summation of Davis' playoffs. He was outstanding.

I like AD (always have) and dont like LBJ, but in key moments Labron and the bench carried him. He played great in spurts, but given his unbelievable advantages offensively against Miami, he was far less impressive to me than he should have been. A 5th seed missing its starting point guard, playing very young players and a washed up Iguadala should have been swept by 20 every game with that LA team.

But just my opinion. I watched every game and regularly watched LA and Pell games (loved idea of Boogie and AD, even though it didn't pan out). In the Finals I thought he was meh given the matchups. LBJ was amazing, and I felt cwrried the team in key moments against an inspired, but out manned Miami (though it annoyed me how he could foul on both offense and defense with impunity and was almost never called). The game 6 play where LBJ elbows Crowder in the face on an offensive drive and gets 2 plus and and1, its reviewed and confirmed, was just a summary of the series for me. It was written that LA would win for Kobe.


I guess. Obviously you're not going to just consistently post him up and ride him like a traditional center, certainly not one as incredible as Dream. But despite having a few down games he just put up 25 on 57/42/94 splits against a team that made the decision after Game 2 that they weren't going to let him beat them. There's a reason the Lakers just set a record for most 3s in a six-game Finals, and it's not because we have good shooters.

We can agree he was a huge offensive threat, with a huge 'unstoppable shot' advantage. Much like KD was on warriors, without as much space, I will grant you that. He is a great player. But Dream level? Please....

AD's weaknesses has always been mental or physical consistency and his ability to be his dominating self for more minutes, under the pressure moments. Not sure a bubble title, on stacked team, with maybe the GOAT supporting him, against a good, but not great team, without starting point guard, injured rising star center, rookie starters, without fans is a big test.
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Re: Without accolades, does AD have arguments over Olajuwon? 

Post#60 » by ssang » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm

(sigh) Jesus Christ. No

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