Ratings down across all sports,

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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#81 » by soxfan2003 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:57 pm

Most of those sporting events being down are easier to explain than the NBA falling. Basketball is a November to June sport but it is still a sport played 12 months a year so its not exactly unnatural to watch it in August/September. You may have better things to do but you don't feel silly. Hockey really late in the year makes little sense since not many people associate summer with hockey. Maybe a little pickup street hockey then but even at amateur levels, it just isn't the time of the year one thinks hockey.

As for the US Open, Tiger Woods was competitive in the US open in 2019 and did not even play at all in 2020. Given how much Woods has sometimes driven the casual golf fan to watch, that explains a lot of the ratings drop.

Where I think the NBA needs to be wary....They may not have gotten an "ideal finals" of let's say big market Lakers with 3 major stars vs big market Knicks with 3 major stars but LA with Lebron/Davis vs Miami -- Lebron's old team -- is a much much better than average finals than the typical one.

Maybe a little Lebron fatigue but LA hadn't been in NBA finals since they last won it in 2010.

If the NBA was doing everything right and had been doing a better job, ratings would still be lower but not nearly this low.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#82 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:07 pm

Brofessor24 wrote:
Desiderium wrote:I don't think there's anyone that argues Black Live's don't matter, but the stance that the NBA has taken, associating voting for Biden and Black Lives, is completely inaccurate. I think that's what drove a lot of fans who have conservative views away. Rather than working on real issues, the stance that the NBA has taken is vote trump out of office and everything goes back to normal.

I consider myself middle of the road but leaning conservative and this is one of the big reasons why NBA hasn't appealed to me as of late. I still watched though, because i don't wan't politics to come between me and my favorite team. I just wish the NBA would take the same stance, don't let politics come between you and your fans.


Seems to me that you simply disagree with the NBA's political stance.

IMO siding with Biden/BLM was better than the alternative.

From a pure business perspective, siding with either side is a pretty bad move. They could support their players right to speak up, without really getting involved themselves.

But again, that is simply from a business point of view.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#83 » by bluemj32 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:42 pm

Woodsanity wrote:Weird that the finals took a bigger hit than the playoffs. This was true for the Stanley cup as well. This just shows the blm stuff didn't have much of an impact.

Stanley cup + US Open golf/tennis hit just as hard.

I am wondering why the WNBA actually increased in viewership, I guess its cause they had little viewership to begin with.
I defer, it had an impact definitely in my community. Brought more Awareness and talk. It also brought awareness nationwide.

The impact of Social issueses can't be measured on ratings.

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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#84 » by bluemj32 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:44 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:Barely no one watches sports on the TV anymore. Most people are using streams on their computers, tablets or smartphones.
^^^This right here

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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#85 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:46 pm

bluemj32 wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:Barely no one watches sports on the TV anymore. Most people are using streams on their computers, tablets or smartphones.
^^^This right here

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And if its a legal stream, it is being counted into the ratings.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#86 » by mastermixer » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:46 am

Polls are stupid. People don’t know what they want or why they behave certain ways.



Interesting they left off the UFC, which I hear is doing better during the pandemic.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#87 » by Desiderium » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:53 am

Brofessor24 wrote:
Desiderium wrote:I don't think there's anyone that argues Black Live's don't matter, but the stance that the NBA has taken, associating voting for Biden and Black Lives, is completely inaccurate. I think that's what drove a lot of fans who have conservative views away. Rather than working on real issues, the stance that the NBA has taken is vote trump out of office and everything goes back to normal.

I consider myself middle of the road but leaning conservative and this is one of the big reasons why NBA hasn't appealed to me as of late. I still watched though, because i don't wan't politics to come between me and my favorite team. I just wish the NBA would take the same stance, don't let politics come between you and your fans.


Seems to me that you simply disagree with the NBA's political stance.

IMO siding with Biden/BLM was better than the alternative.


You see this is the thing. It seems there are people who believe for a fact that it IS better than the alternative, when in fact it’s simply an opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion, as am I. You saying it’s better than the alternative isn’t a mic drop, it’s an opinion.

If you sit there and tell me what is the right opinion, I’m either going to listen, or I’m going to look away and leave. That’s what the NBA is doing, forcing their fans to listen, or change the channel.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#88 » by KqWIN » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:36 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Again Im not arguing that a great chance that the next TV deal the NBA ends up going to a streaming service. What Im saying is the last TV deal was made when the NBA was seeing anywhere from 16-17 million for the first few games of the finals to 24-28 million for the final close out games of the finals. And its not just total viewers, the NBA was averaging about a 10 rating for the first few games to about a 15 rating for the close out games. For those that dont know rating is basically just a percentage of US households that watched the game. Compare that to this year, the viewership was 5.9 mil to 8.9 mil. And the rating was 3.1 to 4.8. These ratings include streaming services like Hulu Live, YoutubeTV, and SlingTV.

Youre not going to see TV channels or streaming services looking to drop 2.5 billion per year for something that its biggest 5-7 games of the year, get you a 3-4 rating market share. We are talking about a 3-4x drop in market share compared to when the last TV deal was done. That is a massive hit. Also lets remember this isnt just the bubble thing, the regular season prior to the bubble the ratings were taking a big hit and we were seeing prime time games not even getting a 1.0 rating.

Also another thing to remember, you didnt need a cable provider to watch the finals, it was on broadcast television and we still saw a very low rating. So even if there was still the 20+ million watching it but the vast majority of them just illegally streamed it even though it was on free TV. Why would more pay to watch it on Hulu/Netflix?


I just don't think we should be using TV ratings to analyze the inevitable shift to digital. Digital is much more than just the ratings. This is coming from someone who thinks the majority of the NBA product is bad, btw. We have an 82 game preseason that nobody cares about and the players/teams who are competing for the only thing that matters are incentivized to not care about it. Anyways, the products sucks, but this is also why I think the move to digital is so important and inevitable. Suppose there is a massive drop in interest in basketball...the focus should still be on how the league can excel in the transition to digital, and not how it can salvage cable viewers.

The NBA is already soaring in the digital space. They have the most famous athletes in America. This is where their fans are, now it's just time to monetize it. That is what the NBA's biggest focus should be, how to monetize their online presence. People are leaving cable anyways. Even if the NBA ratings weren't dropping and held like the NFL, the NBA should be looking towards digital because that's just where entertainment is going. The NBA is already ahead, so I would be putting my best minds on how to best deliver the product to the fans and also how to monetize it.

The illegal streaming issue is not helped one bit by cable. Like I said, cable only makes that problem worse. You can't even pay to watch your local team unless you pay for cable. People will always watch illegal streams, but people will also always pay for a user friendly experience. That's why people by cable. All content can be streamed/downloaded and yet people still buy it. This is true for music, TV, movies ect. The NBA is no different.

Having said that, I don't actually think the NBA will be behind a paywall. I think the NBA will get paid a ton of money for exclusive streaming rights and then they will likely sell their own ads on top of that. Youtube, for example, paid a lot of money for the exclusive right to stream professional Overwatch and Call of Duty. They aren't putting that behind a paywall. YouTube is just paying for the ability to bring people onto their site and away from the other sites.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#89 » by Brofessor24 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:46 am

Desiderium wrote:
Brofessor24 wrote:
Desiderium wrote:I don't think there's anyone that argues Black Live's don't matter, but the stance that the NBA has taken, associating voting for Biden and Black Lives, is completely inaccurate. I think that's what drove a lot of fans who have conservative views away. Rather than working on real issues, the stance that the NBA has taken is vote trump out of office and everything goes back to normal.

I consider myself middle of the road but leaning conservative and this is one of the big reasons why NBA hasn't appealed to me as of late. I still watched though, because i don't wan't politics to come between me and my favorite team. I just wish the NBA would take the same stance, don't let politics come between you and your fans.


Seems to me that you simply disagree with the NBA's political stance.

IMO siding with Biden/BLM was better than the alternative.


You see this is the thing. It seems there are people who believe for a fact that it IS better than the alternative, when in fact it’s simply an opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion, as am I. You saying it’s better than the alternative isn’t a mic drop, it’s an opinion.

If you sit there and tell me what is the right opinion, I’m either going to listen, or I’m going to look away and leave. That’s what the NBA is doing, forcing their fans to listen, or change the channel.


I clearly said "IMO...."

Try to keep up.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#90 » by -TheDocOfDenial » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:57 am

Basketball compared to what its used to be is just that not enjoyable any more.

Look at the NFL, even though the offensive rules have been favoured you still have different style teams ans parity. In the NBA, everyone plays the same and the parity kind of sucks.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#91 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:13 am

KqWIN wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Again Im not arguing that a great chance that the next TV deal the NBA ends up going to a streaming service. What Im saying is the last TV deal was made when the NBA was seeing anywhere from 16-17 million for the first few games of the finals to 24-28 million for the final close out games of the finals. And its not just total viewers, the NBA was averaging about a 10 rating for the first few games to about a 15 rating for the close out games. For those that dont know rating is basically just a percentage of US households that watched the game. Compare that to this year, the viewership was 5.9 mil to 8.9 mil. And the rating was 3.1 to 4.8. These ratings include streaming services like Hulu Live, YoutubeTV, and SlingTV.

Youre not going to see TV channels or streaming services looking to drop 2.5 billion per year for something that its biggest 5-7 games of the year, get you a 3-4 rating market share. We are talking about a 3-4x drop in market share compared to when the last TV deal was done. That is a massive hit. Also lets remember this isnt just the bubble thing, the regular season prior to the bubble the ratings were taking a big hit and we were seeing prime time games not even getting a 1.0 rating.

Also another thing to remember, you didnt need a cable provider to watch the finals, it was on broadcast television and we still saw a very low rating. So even if there was still the 20+ million watching it but the vast majority of them just illegally streamed it even though it was on free TV. Why would more pay to watch it on Hulu/Netflix?


I just don't think we should be using TV ratings to analyze the inevitable shift to digital. Digital is much more than just the ratings. This is coming from someone who thinks the majority of the NBA product is bad, btw. We have an 82 game preseason that nobody cares about and the players/teams who are competing for the only thing that matters are incentivized to not care about it. Anyways, the products sucks, but this is also why I think the move to digital is so important and inevitable. Suppose there is a massive drop in interest in basketball...the focus should still be on how the league can excel in the transition to digital, and not how it can salvage cable viewers.

The NBA is already soaring in the digital space. They have the most famous athletes in America. This is where their fans are, now it's just time to monetize it. That is what the NBA's biggest focus should be, how to monetize their online presence. People are leaving cable anyways. Even if the NBA ratings weren't dropping and held like the NFL, the NBA should be looking towards digital because that's just where entertainment is going. The NBA is already ahead, so I would be putting my best minds on how to best deliver the product to the fans and also how to monetize it.

The illegal streaming issue is not helped one bit by cable. Like I said, cable only makes that problem worse. You can't even pay to watch your local team unless you pay for cable. People will always watch illegal streams, but people will also always pay for a user friendly experience. That's why people by cable. All content can be streamed/downloaded and yet people still buy it. This is true for music, TV, movies ect. The NBA is no different.

Having said that, I don't actually think the NBA will be behind a paywall. I think the NBA will get paid a ton of money for exclusive streaming rights and then they will likely sell their own ads on top of that. Youtube, for example, paid a lot of money for the exclusive right to stream professional Overwatch and Call of Duty. They aren't putting that behind a paywall. YouTube is just paying for the ability to bring people onto their site and away from the other sites.


Is their digital presence even monetizable? Its cool and all that their Twitter and Instagram posts get a lot of likes, how does that become monetizable? They can monetize their Youtube highlights, thats not going to bring in much.

Youtube paid a lot for Overwatch and Call of Duty, but for context. They paid 160 million dollars for the exclusive streaming rights for 3 years. So that is about 53 million dollars per year. The NBA is getting 2.6 billion per year. And for comparison, Esports has already overtaken the NBA in popularity. The League of Legends tournament last year got over 100 million viewers.

Esports is the NFL of streaming platforms. Just search League of Legends, Overwatch, or Call of Duty into Youtube and rank by most viewed and compare that to the NBA, they destroy it. And again those exclusive streaming rights are going for right around 50 million a year. That is a far cry away from the 2.5 billion the NBA would need just to stay equal to what they've been getting.

And when it comes to the popularity of the individual players. That's great for those individual players, because they have the opportunity to get endorsements for themselves. But when it comes to the league, not sure that is really helping them. LeBron is by far the most popular player, the Lakers is by far the most popular franchise and the NBA just saw the worst ratings for a finals ever.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#92 » by G35 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:44 am

Dupp wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
Dupp wrote:What the racists got to say about this?


I don't think "racists" are watching basketball.



Why’s that?



Ask Jussie Smollett...why would MAGA hat wearing KKK racists be watching Empire waiting for him to come out of his house at 2:30am when its 15 below zero. Some people want to blame racism for everything.....

Personally I think the decline of sports is just happening and the politicization is speeding up the process. The NBA was already declining before covid and the new race wars.

What are people doing since they are not watching sports...I am watching older shows on TV...I just watched the first season of the original Star Trek and random shows of the Twilight Zone. Both shows actually had some political messaging but they didn't try to knock you over the head with it and the writing was levels above what we have now......
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#93 » by Dupp » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:45 am

G35 wrote:
Dupp wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
I don't think "racists" are watching basketball.



Why’s that?



Ask Jussie Smollett...why would MAGA hat wearing KKK racists be watching Empire waiting for him to come out of his house at 2:30am when its 15 below zero. Some people want to blame racism for everything.....



You drunk?
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#94 » by G35 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:49 am

Dupp wrote:
G35 wrote:
Dupp wrote:

Why’s that?



Ask Jussie Smollett...why would MAGA hat wearing KKK racists be watching Empire waiting for him to come out of his house at 2:30am when its 15 below zero. Some people want to blame racism for everything.....



You drunk?



That's the best you can come up with...like I said...people are basic now.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#95 » by KqWIN » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:59 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Again Im not arguing that a great chance that the next TV deal the NBA ends up going to a streaming service. What Im saying is the last TV deal was made when the NBA was seeing anywhere from 16-17 million for the first few games of the finals to 24-28 million for the final close out games of the finals. And its not just total viewers, the NBA was averaging about a 10 rating for the first few games to about a 15 rating for the close out games. For those that dont know rating is basically just a percentage of US households that watched the game. Compare that to this year, the viewership was 5.9 mil to 8.9 mil. And the rating was 3.1 to 4.8. These ratings include streaming services like Hulu Live, YoutubeTV, and SlingTV.

Youre not going to see TV channels or streaming services looking to drop 2.5 billion per year for something that its biggest 5-7 games of the year, get you a 3-4 rating market share. We are talking about a 3-4x drop in market share compared to when the last TV deal was done. That is a massive hit. Also lets remember this isnt just the bubble thing, the regular season prior to the bubble the ratings were taking a big hit and we were seeing prime time games not even getting a 1.0 rating.

Also another thing to remember, you didnt need a cable provider to watch the finals, it was on broadcast television and we still saw a very low rating. So even if there was still the 20+ million watching it but the vast majority of them just illegally streamed it even though it was on free TV. Why would more pay to watch it on Hulu/Netflix?


I just don't think we should be using TV ratings to analyze the inevitable shift to digital. Digital is much more than just the ratings. This is coming from someone who thinks the majority of the NBA product is bad, btw. We have an 82 game preseason that nobody cares about and the players/teams who are competing for the only thing that matters are incentivized to not care about it. Anyways, the products sucks, but this is also why I think the move to digital is so important and inevitable. Suppose there is a massive drop in interest in basketball...the focus should still be on how the league can excel in the transition to digital, and not how it can salvage cable viewers.

The NBA is already soaring in the digital space. They have the most famous athletes in America. This is where their fans are, now it's just time to monetize it. That is what the NBA's biggest focus should be, how to monetize their online presence. People are leaving cable anyways. Even if the NBA ratings weren't dropping and held like the NFL, the NBA should be looking towards digital because that's just where entertainment is going. The NBA is already ahead, so I would be putting my best minds on how to best deliver the product to the fans and also how to monetize it.

The illegal streaming issue is not helped one bit by cable. Like I said, cable only makes that problem worse. You can't even pay to watch your local team unless you pay for cable. People will always watch illegal streams, but people will also always pay for a user friendly experience. That's why people by cable. All content can be streamed/downloaded and yet people still buy it. This is true for music, TV, movies ect. The NBA is no different.

Having said that, I don't actually think the NBA will be behind a paywall. I think the NBA will get paid a ton of money for exclusive streaming rights and then they will likely sell their own ads on top of that. Youtube, for example, paid a lot of money for the exclusive right to stream professional Overwatch and Call of Duty. They aren't putting that behind a paywall. YouTube is just paying for the ability to bring people onto their site and away from the other sites.


Is their digital presence even monetizable? Its cool and all that their Twitter and Instagram posts get a lot of likes, how does that become monetizable? They can monetize their Youtube highlights, thats not going to bring in much.

Youtube paid a lot for Overwatch and Call of Duty, but for context. They paid 160 million dollars for the exclusive streaming rights for 3 years. So that is about 53 million dollars per year. The NBA is getting 2.6 billion per year. And for comparison, Esports has already overtaken the NBA in popularity. The League of Legends tournament last year got over 100 million viewers.

Esports is the NFL of streaming platforms. Just search League of Legends, Overwatch, or Call of Duty into Youtube and rank by most viewed and compare that to the NBA, they destroy it. And again those exclusive streaming rights are going for right around 50 million a year. That is a far cry away from the 2.5 billion the NBA would need just to stay equal to what they've been getting.


Youtube didn't buy Esports, they bought Overwatch and Call of Duty. That doesn't compare to a full NBA season + playoffs. I brought it up as a model that the NBA could use. Youtube/Twitch/Whoever pays a fee to have it on their site, but that does not include the ads. The bulk of that $2.5B value comes from the ads the TV Networks play during the games. In this situation, the NBA would be able to sell their own ads.

Esports is a great example as to why the NBA should go digital. There's so many people on the internet and it's global. 1/4th of the world is on YouTube, which is an insane number to think about. Imagine putting the NBA in front of that type of audience. Esports is so popular online because it's accessible and that's where the viewership is. The NBA is not accessible and not where the viewership is. I can't even watch the Utah Jazz on TV unless I buy cable. I live 5 minutes from the arena and I can't even watch that team online! That's ridiculous.

Cable is gatekeeping people from watching the NBA and limiting growth. Purely from a growth perspective, the NBA has to move digitally. Everyone including the NFL will have to move digitally. Are you really willing to bet on cable being the primary way people consume content in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? How long is actually going to exist at all? Call me crazy, but I'm going to bet on the YouTube/Twitch homepage over ABC/CBS going forward. I'm also going to bet on people preferring to pay $15-$30 on their favorite streaming service tow watch games over $100+ for the cable to watch on ESPN/TNT.

The money will be there, I'm confident in that. There is nothing special about cable that gives it magical ability to bring money in. Cable actually brings in money much less effectively than digital. The NBA made money from networks selling ads on TV, now it's selling ads + much more on the web. The popularity of the NBA and its players shows me that the audience is there, they just need to connect the product to the audience. Right now the NBA is a situation where its audience has moved to digital, but the product has not.

To put it simply, we know the world of entertainment is going digital and we know the NBA is does much better digitally than on cable. So for me, the problem isn't how to do better on cable, the problem is how to keep their edge and transition digitally as best they can.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#96 » by 4pointkiller » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:04 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
bluemj32 wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:Barely no one watches sports on the TV anymore. Most people are using streams on their computers, tablets or smartphones.
^^^This right here

Sent from my Pixel 3a using RealGM mobile app

And if its a legal stream, it is being counted into the ratings.


What's legal isn't a universal consensus. Just because a US company tells some guy in some 3rd world country he can't do something, doesn't actually mean it's not legal.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#97 » by Dupp » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 am

G35 wrote:
Dupp wrote:
G35 wrote:

Ask Jussie Smollett...why would MAGA hat wearing KKK racists be watching Empire waiting for him to come out of his house at 2:30am when its 15 below zero. Some people want to blame racism for everything.....



You drunk?



That's the best you can come up with...like I said...people are basic now.....



You’re the one taking gibberish. I dunno who you’re talking about or why you’re talking about the kkk. Figured you’d been hitting the bottle again.

Definitely on brand for you though.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#98 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:47 am

KqWIN wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
I just don't think we should be using TV ratings to analyze the inevitable shift to digital. Digital is much more than just the ratings. This is coming from someone who thinks the majority of the NBA product is bad, btw. We have an 82 game preseason that nobody cares about and the players/teams who are competing for the only thing that matters are incentivized to not care about it. Anyways, the products sucks, but this is also why I think the move to digital is so important and inevitable. Suppose there is a massive drop in interest in basketball...the focus should still be on how the league can excel in the transition to digital, and not how it can salvage cable viewers.

The NBA is already soaring in the digital space. They have the most famous athletes in America. This is where their fans are, now it's just time to monetize it. That is what the NBA's biggest focus should be, how to monetize their online presence. People are leaving cable anyways. Even if the NBA ratings weren't dropping and held like the NFL, the NBA should be looking towards digital because that's just where entertainment is going. The NBA is already ahead, so I would be putting my best minds on how to best deliver the product to the fans and also how to monetize it.

The illegal streaming issue is not helped one bit by cable. Like I said, cable only makes that problem worse. You can't even pay to watch your local team unless you pay for cable. People will always watch illegal streams, but people will also always pay for a user friendly experience. That's why people by cable. All content can be streamed/downloaded and yet people still buy it. This is true for music, TV, movies ect. The NBA is no different.

Having said that, I don't actually think the NBA will be behind a paywall. I think the NBA will get paid a ton of money for exclusive streaming rights and then they will likely sell their own ads on top of that. Youtube, for example, paid a lot of money for the exclusive right to stream professional Overwatch and Call of Duty. They aren't putting that behind a paywall. YouTube is just paying for the ability to bring people onto their site and away from the other sites.


Is their digital presence even monetizable? Its cool and all that their Twitter and Instagram posts get a lot of likes, how does that become monetizable? They can monetize their Youtube highlights, thats not going to bring in much.

Youtube paid a lot for Overwatch and Call of Duty, but for context. They paid 160 million dollars for the exclusive streaming rights for 3 years. So that is about 53 million dollars per year. The NBA is getting 2.6 billion per year. And for comparison, Esports has already overtaken the NBA in popularity. The League of Legends tournament last year got over 100 million viewers.

Esports is the NFL of streaming platforms. Just search League of Legends, Overwatch, or Call of Duty into Youtube and rank by most viewed and compare that to the NBA, they destroy it. And again those exclusive streaming rights are going for right around 50 million a year. That is a far cry away from the 2.5 billion the NBA would need just to stay equal to what they've been getting.


Youtube didn't buy Esports, they bought Overwatch and Call of Duty. That doesn't compare to a full NBA season + playoffs. I brought it up as a model that the NBA could use. Youtube/Twitch/Whoever pays a fee to have it on their site, but that does not include the ads. The bulk of that $2.5B value comes from the ads the TV Networks play during the games. In this situation, the NBA would be able to sell their own ads.

Esports is a great example as to why the NBA should go digital. There's so many people on the internet and it's global. 1/4th of the world is on YouTube, which is an insane number to think about. Imagine putting the NBA in front of that type of audience. Esports is so popular online because it's accessible and that's where the viewership is. The NBA is not accessible and not where the viewership is. I can't even watch the Utah Jazz on TV unless I buy cable. I live 5 minutes from the arena and I can't even watch that team online! That's ridiculous.

Cable is gatekeeping people from watching the NBA and limiting growth. Purely from a growth perspective, the NBA has to move digitally. Everyone including the NFL will have to move digitally. Are you really willing to bet on cable being the primary way people consume content in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? How long is actually going to exist at all? Call me crazy, but I'm going to bet on the YouTube/Twitch homepage over ABC/CBS going forward. I'm also going to bet on people preferring to pay $15-$30 on their favorite streaming service tow watch games over $100+ for the cable to watch on ESPN/TNT.

The money will be there, I'm confident in that. There is nothing special about cable that gives it magical ability to bring money in. Cable actually brings in money much less effectively than digital. The NBA made money from networks selling ads on TV, now it's selling ads + much more on the web. The popularity of the NBA and its players shows me that the audience is there, they just need to connect the product to the audience. Right now the NBA is a situation where its audience has moved to digital, but the product has not.

To put it simply, we know the world of entertainment is going digital and we know the NBA is does much better digitally than on cable. So for me, the problem isn't how to do better on cable, the problem is how to keep their edge and transition digitally as best they can.


I understand Youtube didnt buy Esports. Like I said the League of Legends tournament by itself gained more viewers than the NBA finals. Overwatch or Call of Duty both garners more clicks on Youtube than the NBA does.

Im also not denying that streaming and digital is where all things will end up. What I am saying as of right now, there is no way YouTube, Hulu or whoever is going to drop 2.5 billion dollars a year for exclusive rights for the NBA. Even if we say YouTube buys the rights for 1 billion dollars a year and NBA monetizes the videos and collects on the ad revenue. They arent coming close to 1.5 billion in ad revenue. Also to be clear the 2.6 billion a year isnt for every NBA game, thats just for the nationally televised games and playoffs. The individual teams TV deals bring in between 9 million a year to 150 million a year (depending on the team). So lets say the total local TV revenue from games is somewhere around 1 billion per year. If the plan is to have all games on Youtube, that is another billion dollars per year that the NBA is going to have to find.

Just to put this into context, NYTimes and Business Insider have Pewdiepie's annual income from Youtube ads at around 15.5 million dollars. The NBA would need to be about 200x more popular on Youtube than Pewdiepie to reach 3 billion. The NBA isnt going to get 200x the amount of viewing time than Pewdiepie.

So again yes I agree that the transition to digital streaming is going to happen sooner or later. All Im saying is, its not going to be as smooth as many think, especially if the NBA doesnt pick up its numbers in the next few years. These digital streaming services arent going to get into a massive bidding war for something that gets a 3-4 TV rating and cant beat out a Seattle vs Minnesota regular season game when you got a closeout NBA finals game with LeBron James on the Lakers.

I get everyone likes to boohoo the TV ratings. But guess what Hulu and Youtube are seeing how those games compete with other things airing with Hulu Live and YouTube TV and its not a pretty picture. Again there wont be a huge bidding war for a league that is struggling to get viewers.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#99 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:54 am

4pointkiller wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
bluemj32 wrote:^^^This right here

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And if its a legal stream, it is being counted into the ratings.


What's legal isn't a universal consensus. Just because a US company tells some guy in some 3rd world country he can't do something, doesn't actually mean it's not legal.


Actually, it does. The broadcasting rights are owned by the NBA and Disney which has ABC show it. Now in some other countries it maybe on a different channel, but that is either because Disney is airing it on a different channel, or the NBA has a separate TV deal for that country (like China). If you are not viewing it via one of those legally broadcasted networks or streams, yes that makes it illegal.

Now does that mean they have jurisdiction to convict and press charges in every country? No. Or does maybe that country not care if you do that so they won't extradite you to the US over something as small as that? Who knows and who cares.

But yes that is not a legal stream in the eyes of the NBA. Also those who view games on an illegal stream or whatever you want to call it, have as much importance as my 60 year old neighbor that has never watched an NBA game. Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to the NBA because they dont get to show those numbers to their broadcasters and those broadcasters dont get to collect advertisement money from it.
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Re: Ratings down across all sports, 

Post#100 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:55 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
I understand Youtube didnt buy Esports. Like I said the League of Legends tournament by itself gained more viewers than the NBA finals. Overwatch or Call of Duty both garners more clicks on Youtube than the NBA does.

Im also not denying that streaming and digital is where all things will end up. What I am saying as of right now, there is no way YouTube, Hulu or whoever is going to drop 2.5 billion dollars a year for exclusive rights for the NBA. Even if we say YouTube buys the rights for 1 billion dollars a year and NBA monetizes the videos and collects on the ad revenue. They arent coming close to 1.5 billion in ad revenue. Also to be clear the 2.6 billion a year isnt for every NBA game, thats just for the nationally televised games and playoffs. The individual teams TV deals bring in between 9 million a year to 150 million a year (depending on the team). So lets say the total local TV revenue from games is somewhere around 1 billion per year. If the plan is to have all games on Youtube, that is another billion dollars per year that the NBA is going to have to find.

Just to put this into context, NYTimes and Business Insider have Pewdiepie's annual income from Youtube ads at around 15.5 million dollars. The NBA would need to be about 200x more popular on Youtube than Pewdiepie to reach 3 billion. The NBA isnt going to get 200x the amount of viewing time than Pewdiepie.

So again yes I agree that the transition to digital streaming is going to happen sooner or later. All Im saying is, its not going to be as smooth as many think, especially if the NBA doesnt pick up its numbers in the next few years. These digital streaming services arent going to get into a massive bidding war for something that gets a 3-4 TV rating and cant beat out a Seattle vs Minnesota regular season game when you got a closeout NBA finals game with LeBron James on the Lakers.

I get everyone likes to boohoo the TV ratings. But guess what Hulu and Youtube are seeing how those games compete with other things airing with Hulu Live and YouTube TV and its not a pretty picture. Again there wont be a huge bidding war for a league that is struggling to get viewers.

This.

It is going to be a massive mess when the contract is up as well. If the ratings continue to decline, the deal isn't going to be near as lucrative, which means the salary caps will likely decrease, which will put some teams in cap hell. Meanwhile, players aren't going to want to take less money, so I'm sure that will get messy. I'd be shocked if a lockout of some kind doesn't take place.

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