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If Hakeem played with HOF players earlier in his career, he would be in the mix.

I don't really think this but Curry's combination of playmaking, scoring, as well as off the ball movement and spacing make him the best player to build around that's ever played, and as a team game, the player who you'd stick on the best ever team is a GOAT candidate. being the best player on arguably the actual greatest team that's ever played helps his case. He is also clearly the GOAT in a major skillset of the game too and you could argue his 2016 season was the greatest ever and that while longevity is nice, the real greatest player should be someone that actually peaked the greatest. His impact in taking the game into the 3-point era also means he's one of the most important players to play the game from a historical context.

If you are being honest with no bias, Jordan, Lebron & Kareem are the only ones with an argument for GOAT.

Red Auerbach.

He was the top executive for 16 championship teams, across 3 eras, or 4 eras if you account for the fact that the ONLY person on all Russell championship teams was Russell. He also did more to integrate the league than any other executive.

As a coach, he won 9 championships in an era when coaches had zero assistants. He also presided over the first strongly successful uses of transition offense and shotblocking defense.

bmurph128 wrote:Shaq is the easiest.

Since it's a tough and odd argument to make, I'll go this route:

If he and Kobe liked each other, he would have been the best player on the only fourpete in league history.

The only thing that stopped him is that they didn't get along. Not really basketball related.

Shaq was also the most unstoppable player in his prime in NBA history IMO.

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I agree that Shaq would be the only argument that makes sense, but to me it would sound like : Shaq is the greatest player of all-time, he just didn't have the work ethic to have the long term impact to back it up, especially in the RS. If he cared at all the time, he he would have the best career, because he was naturally the best player of all-time.

If the warriors get Giannis or draft 2 stars Curry becomes the Russell to LeBron's Wilt and it becomes the Curry Era in history.

Shaq has a legitimate case

For a large part of his career he simply cruised by on talent alone

Lord knows what he could have achieved if he had MJ's drive

their stats are unassailable so why bother.

instead i'll go by legacy and choose the player who has a legacy equal to theirs,,,,,doctor j. the doctor gave the game the dunk and by doing so gave each following generation of players THEIR platform for self expression. there is no play more hilited, no play that allows the players to express themselves more than the dunk. the game since has had the doctor's watermark

if lebron plays better than jordan(and kareem) from 36-40 then he will be the goat

Stephen Curry

Led the team with the best playoffs record of all-time
Led the team with the best regular season record of all-time.
Led the team with three consecutive 67+ win seasons.
Made 5 straight finals with the same team in the modern era.
Has the most efficient statistical season of all-time.
Has the record playoffs +/- since it has been recorded.
Has the highest +/- over a five year period since it has been recorded.
Most efficient high-volume scorer of all-time.
Greatest playmaker of all-time.
Greatest off-ball player of all-time.
Greatest shooter of all-time.
Changed the game.

Larry Bird.

Most complete player ever.

I think you could make a case for Shaq or Hakeem based on them having arguably the greatest peaks of all time.

I personally don’t see it with Duncan because I think he was clearly a level below those two and his longevity isn’t that much better, but to each their own.

Magic and Bird don’t have the longevity.

It's pretty remarkable how little dispute there is about the top 10, even if there's a lot of dispute about the order. In roughly chronological order:

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron

Some may argue to include Kobe or Garnett (or project that a current player will eventually get there), but there aren't 20 or 25 players in the discussion for top 10. At most 15 even in the conversation.

You have wilt. Tier one

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain&ved=2ahUKEwibqr7jq7_sAhXSXM0KHfjVD-gQFjADegQIBhAE&usg=AOvVaw1uWbXKmTTQXgoUOHalRTUf

Then ... the rest

Bird in an era with as much competition as there wass, Bird was the greatest player of the 80's 3straight MVPs, 3 rings in the decade against some all time great team's, surpassing prime magic and Jordan,, can play in any era, is a much better floor raiser than lebron

Tbh those Celtic's have no business winning if not for bird he made them great.

The real answer is that you can't. IMO, the only players with meaningful GOAT arguments are MJ, Lebron, Kareem, and Russell. Wilt is personally too much of a stretch for me, but I get it. No one else has a reasonable argument.

Nevertheless, to answer in the spirit of the thread, could it be argued that if you leaned overwhelmingly on a "compared to peers" and difference between the player and his closest peers standard, that George Mikan reigned supreme?

On a title team almost every year from 1947 to 1954.
1st or 2nd in points and rebounds per game almost every year from 1947 to 1954 (under a few reasonable assumptions)
Would probably have about five MVPs and a comparable number of Finals MVPs if the awards existed in his day.

All accomplished from ages 22 to 29.

Magic has a case for GOAT and that's WITH EVERYONE included.

Topofthekey wrote:Shaq has a legitimate case

For a large part of his career he simply cruised by on talent alone

Lord knows what he could have achieved if he had MJ's drive

He's definitely one of the greatest ever, but not so sure he has a shot at being number 1 overall. Like for one he spent most of his career cruising because of his size advantage, He had great foot work sure, but if you ask me Hakeem's was far better along with better ability to shoot the ball, make free throws, and play elite defense more consistently.

Bush4Ever wrote:The real answer is that you can't.

Yup. I know this is a thought exercise, but I couldn't even fake it if I wanted to. Those are pretty much the only guys.

funny at all the MJ haters in here. great thread op. sucks that some people have Mj living in their head so bad. acting like scottie would somehow be the 6th in the list. lol what bums.