What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998?

Moderators: Domejandro, KingDavid, bwgood77, Dirk, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, infinite11285, GeorgeMarcus, ken6199, BombsquadSammy

Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 6,275
And1: 8,348
Joined: May 26, 2007

What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#1 » by Danny1616 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:37 am

Another MJ/Lebron thread for ya'll cuz there wasn't enough for us.

But I was thinking...the Bulls blew up in 1998 and Jordan retired, while still playing at an MVP level. Had he not retired he probably could have sustained an elite level of play for at least another 2 seasons or so.

What do you think would happen if he decided to leave Chicago, join another top team, and try to show Jerry Krause he could win somewhere else?

Here are some possible scenarios:

1) Jordan joins the Spurs to team up with Pops, Duncan, Robinson, Kerr, Elliot etc.

2) Jordan joins Portland to team up with Pippen, Stoudemire, Rasheed, Sabonis etc.

3) Jordan joins the Pacers to team up with Reggie, Mullin, Rose, Davis etc.

4) Jordan joins the Lakers to team up with Phil, Shaq and Kobe.

5) Jordan joins the Heat to team up with Mourning, Hardaway, Mashburn, Majerle etc.
ADMVP
Senior
Posts: 545
And1: 402
Joined: Mar 08, 2018

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#2 » by ADMVP » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:42 am

Aren't players supposed to come and join the winner?

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk
Tor_Raps
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,945
And1: 8,207
Joined: Oct 14, 2018

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#3 » by Tor_Raps » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:55 am

Yup... Jordan should have teamed up and won some more rings. People would have just looked past it anyways.

**cough** lebron in Miami **cough**
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 47,848
And1: 35,093
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#4 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:57 am

He could have, but he didn't. That's the difference between Jordan and Lebron.

They were close in terms of individual impact. Lebron might even have a slight edge. But his antics make him extremely unlikable.
User avatar
oaktownwarriors87
RealGM
Posts: 11,569
And1: 3,317
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#5 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:12 am

Jordan had nothing left to prove.
PockyCandy wrote:Is Ball's shot any more ugly than Curry's? Curry just seems to launch it towards the basket like an 8 year old.
jordan0386
Senior
Posts: 648
And1: 503
Joined: Aug 08, 2004

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#6 » by jordan0386 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:21 am

In an alternate universe, he and pip win two more in portland.
Topofthekey
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,309
And1: 464
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#7 » by Topofthekey » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:00 am

Don't think he'd join Spurs or Lakers. Those teams had their own superstars, don't think MJ would have wanted to share the spotlight like that

Blazers maybe, since Pippen went there anyway

Pacers would make for an interesting story, too
Flash Falcon X
General Manager
Posts: 7,902
And1: 3,808
Joined: Oct 19, 2010
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#8 » by Flash Falcon X » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:10 am

To make it like LeBron, he has to be smart and join a team that didn’t get too far in the Playoffs but also has to have a Top 5 player on their team already (Wade). And also have a Top 5 big man join him in joining said team (Bosh).

That way, after a couple years, when other free agents are going to the obvious best teams like KD did with the Warriors, MJ fans can say “Well when MJ joined his new team it’s not like they were a Finals team. He joined a team that wasn’t elite and made them elite.”
#DubNation
MoochieNorris
Senior
Posts: 725
And1: 1,103
Joined: Dec 25, 2018
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#9 » by MoochieNorris » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:28 am

could've went to the knicks to play with his boys oak and pat before their trades. mike liked playing at the garden. everyone does...just not enough to actually try and win for new york lol. we're the **** cubs pre 2016 of basketball
User avatar
HollowEarth
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,420
And1: 1,346
Joined: Feb 19, 2017
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#10 » by HollowEarth » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:30 am

MoochieNorris wrote:could've went to the knicks to play with his boys oak and pat before their trades. mike liked playing at the garden. everyone does...just not enough to actually try and win for new york lol. we're the **** cubs pre 2016 of basketball
Knicks could also have paid him. Jordan's salary with Chicago exceeded the entire salary cap. He would have had to go to another big market like LA or NYC.

Edit: also, butterfly effect here. If he goes to the Knicks, there's no way that things play out the same exact way. That means that Ewing doesn't get injured and can still guard Duncan/Robinson in the finals. There's a possibility that Duncan doesn't win that first title. After Tim Duncan's rookie contract was up he really thought hard about forming a super team in Orlando with Grant Hill and Tmac. If he had no rings at that point, maybe it would have pushed him that last inch. Then Duncan goes to Orlando and wins all his titles there on a mega-stacked team with two other all-NBA guys. Doc Rivers gets the credit instead of Popovich. And respect for Doc is so high that Paul George doesn't cheat on Doc's daughter with a stripper, and everybody talks about PG as an upstanding role model like Curry and Lebron. Paul George gets all the wholesome endorsements like Nerf and chocolate milk, so Klay Thompson becomes the league's anti-hero.
User avatar
JulesWinnfield
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,427
And1: 5,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#11 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:34 am

He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either
Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 6,275
And1: 8,348
Joined: May 26, 2007

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#12 » by Danny1616 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:37 am

JulesWinnfield wrote:He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either


The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron joined and they added another top 15 player in Bosh.

Also you can't dismiss that the Bulls in 1994-1995 were 34-31 before Jordan returned and finished 13-4 with Jordan returning (and that's being rusty after 1.5 years out of the game).
Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 6,275
And1: 8,348
Joined: May 26, 2007

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#13 » by Danny1616 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:39 am

Topofthekey wrote:Don't think he'd join Spurs or Lakers. Those teams had their own superstars, don't think MJ would have wanted to share the spotlight like that

Blazers maybe, since Pippen went there anyway

Pacers would make for an interesting story, too


Well remember that Duncan was only entering his 2nd season and Robinson was at the tail-end of his prime.
User avatar
JulesWinnfield
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,427
And1: 5,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#14 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:43 am

Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either


The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron joined and they added another top 15 player in Bosh.


The Heat aren’t winning 55 with just Wade and Bosh when Chalmers, Joel Anthony and James Jones were 3rd, 4th and 5th on the team in minutes... with the ghost of Ilgauskis, Joel Anthony and Erick dampier being their bigs rotation... that team was stripped down completely. That’s probably the team that Lebron played on that would have fared the best without him, and that’s telling.

They would have been better if they could use Lebrons cap room to put more talent in that spot, but that would give them a luxury to prepare that the 94 Bulls didn’t have
User avatar
JulesWinnfield
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,427
And1: 5,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#15 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:47 am

Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either


The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron joined and they added another top 15 player in Bosh.

Also you can't dismiss that the Bulls in 1994-1995 were 34-31 before Jordan returned and finished 13-4 with Jordan returning (and that's being rusty after 1.5 years out of the game).


The 95 Bulls didn’t have Horace Grant and had yet to replace him with Rodman so it’s a useless comparison. The same Horace Grant who absolutely killed them in the conference finals that year in Orlando. That was why the bulls lost to Orlando, not because MJ wasn’t MJ from playing baseball. They had a horrible bigs rotation
Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 6,275
And1: 8,348
Joined: May 26, 2007

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#16 » by Danny1616 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:49 am

JulesWinnfield wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either


The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron joined and they added another top 15 player in Bosh.


The Heat aren’t winning 55 with just Wade and Bosh when Chalmers and James Jones were 3rd and 4th on the team in minutes... with the ghost of Ilgauskis, Joel Anthony and Erick dampier being their bigs rotation... that team was stripped down completely. That’s probably the team that Lebron played on that would have fared the best without him, and that’s telling.

They would have been better if they could use Lebrons cap room to put more talent in that spot, but that would give them a luxury to prepare that the 94 Bulls didn’t have


You really don't think if the 2010 Heat had Wade and Bosh they aren't winning 55 games? You can't be serious. Wade at the time was an MVP caliber player and Bosh was a top 3 power forward. When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.

Raptors were 31-24, sitting in 3rd place in the East before Bosh fractured a bone in his face, missing 12 games.

Look at the 2009-2010 advanced stats:

Win Shares:
1) Lebron
4) Wade
18) Bosh

BPM:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh

Vorp:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 47,848
And1: 35,093
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#17 » by Raps in 4 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:51 am

Flash Falcon X wrote:To make it like LeBron, he has to be smart and join a team that didn’t get too far in the Playoffs but also has to have a Top 5 player on their team already (Wade). And also have a Top 5 big man join him in joining said team (Bosh).

That way, after a couple years, when other free agents are going to the obvious best teams like KD did with the Warriors, MJ fans can say “Well when MJ joined his new team it’s not like they were a Finals team. He joined a team that wasn’t elite and made them elite.”


Like clockwork:

JulesWinnfield wrote:He had a team that won 55 games when he decided to play baseball. The team that Lebron played on that would win 55 in his absence never existed

Then when it became clear after 1998 that Jax and Pip wouldn’t be brought back by Krause, he quit. He didn’t retire, he straight quit. Took his ball and went home. Didn’t have the guts to do what Lebron did at a similar age with the 2019 Lakers, play in a situation where he might lose. His own ego let him think he could come back a few years later just like his ego made him think he could play baseball, try to make it work with young Rip Hamilton and the number 1 pick he hand selected in Kwame Brown. Dude he thought was the prototype. Karl Malone and KG rolled into one. That was him trying to create his own little super team set up. But like other things, he wasn’t as good as Lebron at picking talent either
User avatar
JulesWinnfield
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,427
And1: 5,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#18 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:52 am

Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
The Heat won 47 games the year before Lebron joined and they added another top 15 player in Bosh.


The Heat aren’t winning 55 with just Wade and Bosh when Chalmers and James Jones were 3rd and 4th on the team in minutes... with the ghost of Ilgauskis, Joel Anthony and Erick dampier being their bigs rotation... that team was stripped down completely. That’s probably the team that Lebron played on that would have fared the best without him, and that’s telling.

They would have been better if they could use Lebrons cap room to put more talent in that spot, but that would give them a luxury to prepare that the 94 Bulls didn’t have


You really don't think if the 2010 Heat had Wade and Bosh they aren't winning 55 games? You can't be serious. Wade at the time was an MVP caliber player and Bosh was a top 3 power forward. When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.


No... they wouldnt. They had nothing else on the team outside of that . They only won 58 with Lebron and that’s with Lebron being clearly their best player that regular season and leading the nba in PER
Danny1616
Head Coach
Posts: 6,275
And1: 8,348
Joined: May 26, 2007

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#19 » by Danny1616 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 am

JulesWinnfield wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:
The Heat aren’t winning 55 with just Wade and Bosh when Chalmers and James Jones were 3rd and 4th on the team in minutes... with the ghost of Ilgauskis, Joel Anthony and Erick dampier being their bigs rotation... that team was stripped down completely. That’s probably the team that Lebron played on that would have fared the best without him, and that’s telling.

They would have been better if they could use Lebrons cap room to put more talent in that spot, but that would give them a luxury to prepare that the 94 Bulls didn’t have


You really don't think if the 2010 Heat had Wade and Bosh they aren't winning 55 games? You can't be serious. Wade at the time was an MVP caliber player and Bosh was a top 3 power forward. When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.


No... they wouldnt. They had nothing else on the team outside of that . They only won 58 with Lebron and that’s with Lebron being clearly their best player that regular season and leading the nba in PER


Add what I just wrote:

When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.

Raptors were 31-24, sitting in 3rd place in the East before Bosh fractured a bone in his face, missing 12 games.

Look at the 2009-2010 advanced stats:

Win Shares:
1) Lebron
4) Wade
18) Bosh

BPM:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh

Vorp:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh

If you don't think Bosh would've raised the Heat's record from 47 to around 55 (give or take), you are really underestimating how good Bosh was.
User avatar
JulesWinnfield
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,427
And1: 5,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: What if Jordan Created a Super Team in 1998? 

Post#20 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:56 am

Danny1616 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
You really don't think if the 2010 Heat had Wade and Bosh they aren't winning 55 games? You can't be serious. Wade at the time was an MVP caliber player and Bosh was a top 3 power forward. When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.


No... they wouldnt. They had nothing else on the team outside of that . They only won 58 with Lebron and that’s with Lebron being clearly their best player that regular season and leading the nba in PER


Add what I just wrote:

When Bosh played for Toronto in 2010 they were on pace for nearly 50 wins that season until he broke his face and they ended up with 40 wins. The year after Bosh left Toronto won 22 games.

Raptors were 31-24, sitting in 3rd place in the East before Bosh fractured a bone in his face, missing 12 games.

Look at the 2009-2010 advanced stats:

Win Shares:
1) Lebron
4) Wade
18) Bosh

BPM:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh

Vorp:
1) Lebron
2) Wade
19) Bosh


So you’re telling me Lebron led the league in VORP, BPM and win Shares (as well as PER) but was only worth 3 wins to Miami

Ok

For the record Wade only once won 55 without Lebron and that was 2005 when Shaq was 2nd in mvp voting. Also telling that the 2011 team is the only one you could even bring up with a chance for 55 when Lebron supppsedly played on “super teams” for like a decade straight

Return to The General Board