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Must see TV!

Rockets literally gonna be Bel-Air Academy. Harden is Will, Westbrook is Carlton, and realgm is Jazz yelling "Yes Yes" eveytime the the two come to odds.

Houston doesn't want this smoke. It's getting done soon.

You can say what you want about player empowerment but the reality is that both guys have "what?" 3 years under the contract?

I don't get it - owners should understood the implications of these decisions for the whole league.

You can't just as a player sign hundreds of millions contracts which are GUARANTEED BY FRANCHISE and think that you have no responsibility and can leave when you want...

I think this is not fair and going over the board.

Hold them, charge them and put penalties if they don't play and put them on the bench if they play poorly. See how it goes for a year.

I mean - all these request with multiple years remaining under the contract are just it - REQUESTS. I can get and understand a year maybe I can understand under some conditions a year before that. BUT THIS IS REALLY GETTING OUT OF HANDS.

Nites wrote:Houston doesn't want this smoke. It's getting done soon.

Yep. Ask Minnesota how keeping Jimmy Butler into the season went. Sorry Houston, your time is up.

Translation: "Offer us something more than late firsts and roleplayers".

Wolf of Ball St wrote:

Nites wrote:Houston doesn't want this smoke. It's getting done soon.

Yep. Ask Minnesota how keeping Jimmy Butler into the season went. Sorry Houston, your time is up.

Difference is these guys have MULTIPLE years left on their deal. Butler didn't. They have no reason to rush into a deal that doesn't greatly benefit them.

reflex35 wrote:You can say what you want about player empowerment but the reality is that both guys have "what?" 3 years under the contract?

I don't get it - owners should understood the implications of these decisions for the whole league.

You can't just as a player sign hundreds of millions contracts which are GUARANTEED BY FRANCHISE and think that you have no responsibility and can leave when you want...

I think this is not fair and going over the board.

Hold them, charge them and put penalties if they don't play and put them on the bench if they play poorly. See how it goes for a year.

I mean - all these request with multiple years remaining under the contract are just it - REQUESTS. I can get and understand a year maybe I can understand under some conditions a year before that. BUT THIS IS REALLY GETTING OUT OF HANDS.

I think a player can respectfully request, and an owner can respectfully deny. Like, I think Frittata should be able to say 'listen James, we tried, and we can't get equal value for you, so we're not going to trade you'. And if Harden sits, he doesn't get paid (and I think the L should impose a rule that voluntary sitting is no pay+fine, or the time gets added to the back end or something). And if he sulks and plays like garbage, or fakes an injury, frankly, the GM should have done a better job with personality assessment before signing the player to that deal.

Wolf of Ball St wrote:

Nites wrote:Houston doesn't want this smoke. It's getting done soon.

Yep. Ask Minnesota how keeping Jimmy Butler into the season went. Sorry Houston, your time is up.

Butler was expiring n talking trash to Wiggins/Kat, dont see Russ or Harden doing that n both are under contract for multiple yrs

Nites wrote:Houston doesn't want this smoke. It's getting done soon.

My impression of their owner is that he’ll dig in over machismo.

reflex35 wrote:You can say what you want about player empowerment but the reality is that both guys have "what?" 3 years under the contract?

I don't get it - owners should understood the implications of these decisions for the whole league.

You can't just as a player sign hundreds of millions contracts which are GUARANTEED BY FRANCHISE and think that you have no responsibility and can leave when you want...

I think this is not fair and going over the board.

Hold them, charge them and put penalties if they don't play and put them on the bench if they play poorly. See how it goes for a year.

I mean - all these request with multiple years remaining under the contract are just it - REQUESTS. I can get and understand a year maybe I can understand under some conditions a year before that. BUT THIS IS REALLY GETTING OUT OF HANDS.

Two years plus a player option. But yeah, I agree, more or less. The contracts say, "You play until/unless you get hurt or traded, and we pay you tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to do so." It feels dirty when players break that good faith and try to force their way out.

Ultimately, though, it comes down to leverage, and there are all kinds of leverage, and the players - the great ones, at least - have a lot of it.

To be clear, I'm not saying Davis or Harden or other players are bad people for exercising their leverage. I'm just saying it feels dirty.

They would be stupid to trade both with their value so low (Harden trade request) and picks on the line. Especially this year with no fans in the arena. Rockets best bet is to ride it out for one more year and hope Westbrick can regain some value with his massive contract that won’t negate what Harden would get.

Leverage ploy. These leaks happen LITERALLY every time a team is getting lowballed (in their mind) for a big name player. Westbrook for example has the 2nd or 3rd worst contract in the NBA and is going on 32 years old. His metrics are in a pretty sharp decline 4 straight years now. He's still a star, but definitely not a superstar. He also comes with a lot of risk due to age, health concerns, locker room stuff. So in terms of an asset, Westbrook is a negative asset. Teams are only going to buy low on him.

With Harden, he tanked Houston's leverage BAD by apparently demanding only the Nets.

Kordic27 wrote:

reflex35 wrote:You can say what you want about player empowerment but the reality is that both guys have "what?" 3 years under the contract?

I don't get it - owners should understood the implications of these decisions for the whole league.

You can't just as a player sign hundreds of millions contracts which are GUARANTEED BY FRANCHISE and think that you have no responsibility and can leave when you want...

I think this is not fair and going over the board.

Hold them, charge them and put penalties if they don't play and put them on the bench if they play poorly. See how it goes for a year.

I mean - all these request with multiple years remaining under the contract are just it - REQUESTS. I can get and understand a year maybe I can understand under some conditions a year before that. BUT THIS IS REALLY GETTING OUT OF HANDS.

I think a player can respectfully request, and an owner can respectfully deny. Like, I think Frittata should be able to say 'listen James, we tried, and we can't get equal value for you, so we're not going to trade you'. And if Harden sits, he doesn't get paid (and I think the L should impose a rule that voluntary sitting is no pay+fine, or the time gets added to the back end or something). And if he sulks and plays like garbage, or fakes an injury, frankly, the GM should have done a better job with personality assessment before signing the player to that deal.

And I agree with most things what you say, but want to add a couple of things:

1. Not only players want to win and reach finals. This is in interest of most owners and players for obvious reasons, so why do players think that they can leave that it does not work?

2. If it does not work who is responsible? Answer - everyone. Yes players say that they did not know about some moves or decisions but you should take it with a grain of salt.... Most of them - especially superstars are involved in these decisions... LETS NOT BE NAIVE.

3. Nobody can guarantee anything. The owner still pays the player if he get's injured does he? Who can guarantee that certain player won't be injured? (Answer - NO-ONE!) So when the owner makes decisions - to improve the team - who can guarantee what it will work? (Answer _ NO-ONE!)

Reality is that everyone - owners and players want their teams to achieve maximum. Why would owner want any different??? And even if owner wants to tank it for a couple of years what's the reason for doing that?? A??? TO BECOME COMPETITIVE AFTERWARDS.... So all these nonsenses when players feel entitled to leave saying that they can't stay because they don't see themselves winning is stupid.... Everyone wants to win and everyone is looking for that (at least long term). Players should have more responsibility as they have guaranteed contracts and they are not stupid to understand the situation when they sign the agreement. Let's not empower players too much as this is bad for everyone...

We're not shocked an owner who wrote a book titled "Shut up and Listen" would try and play hardball with his biggest assets?

This is like a big "Shut up and Play" to Harden and Westbrook if true.

I'm thinking this guy built up his empire with similar tactics and they worked enough for him to buy an NBA team.


Is watching the Westbrook and Harden train wreck happen more compelling than Lavert, Allen and the new Rockets core?

McMahon himself has said on pods that Toyota Center isn't really full or exciting. I see a lot of empty seats on TV too. I can't say I paid much attention to them last year when the season started. I kind of checked out on HOU after they failed to beat the Durant-less Warriors and make the Finals.

Fretatta is kind of like watching Mark Cuban grow up as an owner again.
and Mark paid like 1/10th the price for his franchise.

Remember too the Cowboys suck this year so Texans might be paying attention to the NBA

We all know who the REAL star in TX is anyways - he wears #77

Denver should throw MPJ and picks

Too many teams are risk averse, smart teams exploit that inefficiency

There will be ramifications when the CBA expires.

LOOOL if this trade doesn't happen the chemistry in Brooklyn is done.