Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now?

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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#81 » by Freighttrain » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:46 am

IDK why everybody is saying we're losing a lot of defense.

Caruso
KCP
Kuz
LeBron
AD

That has been our closing line-up in almost all of our games. Now we also have Wes instead of Green but that's a wash. So basically we're only losing Howard's shot blocking ability. But we're still not done exploring the market for minimum contracts or ring chasers and thus a potential shotblocker or someone that can bring another versatility part on our team. On the other hand, we have added 2 19 point scorers which we can plug into our line-up, who create their own offense without LeBron's help and even win games if he's out. I'll take my chances. This year's roster is clearly better than last year.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#82 » by LakersSoul » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:59 pm

Last season the Lakers won the Ship with the two headed monsters in Bron/Brow. They had 3rd option by committee with Rondo, KCP or Kuzma leading the way.

This season they have Bron and a more confident AD back plus a ton of scorers in Schröder, Harrell, KCP plus Kuzma. During RS, Green and Rondo stunk it up. Those guys are gone which means more minutes for Caruso plus newly signed Wes Matthews.

The Lakers just took a huge multiple level jump in offensive options with about 4 more guys to be added at vet min. We will need a big body plus some support. I do wish Dwight didn’t panicked and returned but that’s under the bridge now.

This is a deep team and so much more talented on O, it’s not even close. The D will miss Howard so we shall see who Pelinka picks up.

The rest of the league have been put on notice.

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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#83 » by NPZ » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:16 pm

LakersSoul wrote:The rest of the league have been put on notice.


Even before the 1st game of the preseason this time.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#84 » by pontius » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:24 pm

We'll see how things develop, but on paper the Lakers improved their team. If they land Marc Gasol, I would say they had an excellent off-season.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#85 » by Official » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:39 pm

What people lose context of is Rondo and Dwight Howard had literally no expectations other than being over the hill superstars. Thus when they did produce everyone loves to reminisce and use the terms of playoff Rondo and DPOY Dwight Howard. In the Playoffs Rondo averaged 8.9ppg and 6.6apg and Dwight Howard 5.8ppg and 4.6rpg. Come on get outta here with the BS that Schroder and Harrell are not significantly better. Anybody would have traded Dwight Howard for Harrell or Rondo for Schroder last year and think it was highway robbery.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#86 » by Gert42 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:43 pm

I think another aspect that isn't looked at as much is I think the Schroder & Harrell signings are just as much to lighten the load for LeBron and AD offensively with the quick off-season turnaround.

At the end of the day, the Lakers probably have the two best players on the court in most games-series. Not to minimize their off-season moves because I think these moves make them more likely to win more regular season games, but I don't think another NBA Championship slips through their hands because of Schroder/Harrell/Matthews v. Rondo/Howard/Green.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#87 » by Optms » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:47 pm

Freighttrain wrote:IDK why everybody is saying we're losing a lot of defense.

Caruso
KCP
Kuz
LeBron
AD

That has been our closing line-up in almost all of our games. Now we also have Wes instead of Green but that's a wash. So basically we're only losing Howard's shot blocking ability. But we're still not done exploring the market for minimum contracts or ring chasers and thus a potential shotblocker or someone that can bring another versatility part on our team. On the other hand, we have added 2 19 point scorers which we can plug into our line-up, who create their own offense without LeBron's help and even win games if he's out. I'll take my chances. This year's roster is clearly better than last year.


They think Dwight Howard was the bulk of our defense for some reason. We can still lock up anyone with that starting 5. Defense is the Lakers culture now, no one player changes that.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#88 » by Yeggo Poleggo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:04 pm

Philly and LAL will meet in the Finals again, 20 years later.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#89 » by LakersSoul » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:09 pm

Gert42 wrote:I think another aspect that isn't looked at as much is I think the Schroder & Harrell signings are just as much to lighten the load for LeBron and AD offensively with the quick off-season turnaround.

At the end of the day, the Lakers probably have the two best players on the court in most games-series. Not to minimize their off-season moves because I think these moves make them more likely to win more regular season games, but I don't think another NBA Championship slips through their hands because of Schroder/Harrell/Matthews v. Rondo/Howard/Green.


Might be hard to argue against the Lakers having the best bench too.

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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#90 » by Ring Damage » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:20 pm

Imagine how deep Miami must be! They were severely injured and still pushed the Finals to 6 games.
It really is an astonishing team, and hard to believe they'd have lost if healthy.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#91 » by nikster » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:26 pm

AdriLaker wrote:"Who is better?"
Schroeder > Rondo
Harrell > Howard
Green = Matthews

BUT!!! they are better ONLY if we talk in statistical terms... i mean...they can average 18-19ppg, they are younger and bla bla...but Howard and Rondo were stars few years ago in this league...and they showed that in a lot of moments in the regular season and specially in the playoffs. I loved when we bring Rondo 2 years ago because he KNOWS how to play, lead and WIN games, he won't score 20 pts, but with his directions the team will win games because of his HUGE basketball IQ and Schroeder can't match this. Same with Howard, he won't averag 18 pts as Harrell does right now...but he can stop players and he did his role perfectly, again, Harrell can't do that.

When i saw Ibaka will sign with the Clippers i did that :banghead: because we could have him right now instead of Harrell and trust me, Ibaka is MUCH better than Harrell, both, offensively and defensevily.

The offseason started great for us with the Schroeder trade, but after that...meh...i don't know. We are changing former stars and still key players for championship contention...for great statistical players

We need to sign players like Hassan Whiteside, he can bring us something like Dwight did, size, defense and intimidation.
I will be clear, we are losing a LOT of defense and the style of play that bring us the title. I don't see any PG similar to Rondo in the Free Agency...

I think this season we will see how much better Harrel is offensively than Ibaka.

Harrel as a rim running big was averaging 18.6 on 60 TS%, for a team with poor playmaking. Ibaka developed great chemistry with Toronto's guards who fed him in his spots at the 3 point line and mid range all game. There is a reason that despite being 30 with an injury history he had his best offensive season of his career.

The value of playmaking will become apparent as Harrell gets more efficient playing next to Lebron and Ibaka gets worse playing without a true playmaker (unless Clippers acquire an actual PG)
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#92 » by nikster » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:27 pm

Ring Damage wrote:Imagine how deep Miami must be! They were severely injured and still pushed the Finals to 6 games.
It really is an astonishing team, and hard to believe they'd have lost if healthy.

I think your the only one who finds that hard to believe
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#93 » by _qubik » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Regular season is just an obligation, come playoffs time Lakers, Mavs and Nets will have the best 7,8 man rotation in the league in my opinion. Lakers lost some important pieces, Rondo and D12, but Lakers probably get the most versatile big rotation with a plodding Mcgee, the enforcer Harrell and AD jack of all trades. Rondo departure is not nice, but they added offensive power with Schroeder and Harrel, they have more options now, I think they will be great.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#94 » by Soulyss » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:51 pm

Freighttrain wrote:IDK why everybody is saying we're losing a lot of defense.

Caruso
KCP
Kuz
LeBron
AD

That has been our closing line-up in almost all of our games. Now we also have Wes instead of Green but that's a wash. So basically we're only losing Howard's shot blocking ability. But we're still not done exploring the market for minimum contracts or ring chasers and thus a potential shotblocker or someone that can bring another versatility part on our team. On the other hand, we have added 2 19 point scorers which we can plug into our line-up, who create their own offense without LeBron's help and even win games if he's out. I'll take my chances. This year's roster is clearly better than last year.


Kuzma is a net negative defensive player.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#95 » by jamaalstar21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:52 pm

Lakers fans keep saying Marc Gasol.
I'm as a big a Marc Gasol fan as there is but... it should be known, Marc looked completely cooked in the playoffs last year. His offense had already been in free fall for years, and hit rock bottom last year. He can barely finish inside. He's a solid 3-point shooter but famously reluctant to shoot them, meaning teams still just leave him open, knowing he'll opt for meaningless ball movement pretty much every time. He looked like he lost his final step on defense, and is now no longer an elite defensive anchor (the year before, I thought Marc was sneakily still the best defender in the whole league). He was a huge net negative for the Raps in the playoffs.

Maybe these points don't matter if he went to the Lakers, where he'd be playing shorter minutes on a team that can play Anthony Davis at center whenever it really matters. His defense is probably still good enough to help bench units stay in games, and on offense he can still grease the wheels as a screener and passer. I guess, Laker fans, just don't expect age 36 Marc Gasol to move the needle a ton in the playoffs. I think he's mostly cooked, but could still be a positive locker room veteran.

Overall on the Lakers moves... I'm not sure how to feel. Last offseason, the Lakers didn't assemble massive difference makers, but they gathered just the right amount of the ingredients necessary for a Lebron led playoff run. They got perimeter defenders who could catch & shoot (Bradley, Green, KCP). They got extra rim protectors (Javale, Dwight) to make sure the Lakers could always have strong defense even if the offense went hot and cold. I felt last season that they weren't stacked, but the team fit. This year they have increased their talent and scoring prowess with Schroeder and Harrell, replaced most of what they lost. They kept some key pieces. I'm not really sure what the defense looks like anymore. Peak 2020 Laker defense always had 2-3 perimeter pests and 2-3 rim protectors. I'm waiting to see if they add another rim protector to their bench. I'm not convinced Schroeder and Trez are good. I've always loved Schroeder, but last year was his first net positive performance since his contract year with the Hawks. Trez will play great with Lebron but he'll be pretty big detriment to their defense and spacing. Trez has ALWAYS been a huge net negative in the playoffs, and to me, he's the Demar Derozan of bench bigs (huge scoring numbers and free throw rate, but zero versatility or defense and so easy to game plan for in the playoffs). The Lakers front office is being aggressive and you love to see that, but I'm seeing higher talent + less fit. I think Wes Matthews' health will be low key important. Keeping KCP is a must.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#96 » by Michael Lucky » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:07 pm

jamaalstar21 wrote:Lakers fans keep saying Marc Gasol.
I'm as a big a Marc Gasol fan as there is but... it should be known, Marc looked completely cooked in the playoffs last year. His offense had already been in free fall for years, and hit rock bottom last year. He can barely finish inside. He's a solid 3-point shooter but famously reluctant to shoot them, meaning teams still just leave him open, knowing he'll opt for meaningless ball movement pretty much every time. He looked like he lost his final step on defense, and is now no longer an elite defensive anchor (the year before, I thought Marc was sneakily still the best defender in the whole league). He was a huge net negative for the Raps in the playoffs.

Maybe these points don't matter if he went to the Lakers, where he'd be playing shorter minutes on a team that can play Anthony Davis at center whenever it really matters. His defense is probably still good enough to help bench units stay in games, and on offense he can still grease the wheels as a screener and passer. I guess, Laker fans, just don't expect age 36 Marc Gasol to move the needle a ton in the playoffs. I think he's mostly cooked, but could still be a positive locker room veteran.

Overall on the Lakers moves... I'm not sure how to feel. Last offseason, the Lakers didn't assemble massive difference makers, but they gathered just the right amount of the ingredients necessary for a Lebron led playoff run. They got perimeter defenders who could catch & shoot (Bradley, Green, KCP). They got extra rim protectors (Javale, Dwight) to make sure the Lakers could always have strong defense even if the offense went hot and cold. I felt last season that they weren't stacked, but the team fit. This year they have increased their talent and scoring prowess with Schroeder and Harrell, replaced most of what they lost. They kept some key pieces. I'm not really sure what the defense looks like anymore. Peak 2020 Laker defense always had 2-3 perimeter pests and 2-3 rim protectors. I'm waiting to see if they add another rim protector to their bench. I'm not convinced Schroeder and Trez are good. I've always loved Schroeder, but last year was his first net positive performance since his contract year with the Hawks. Trez will play great with Lebron but he'll be pretty big detriment to their defense and spacing. Trez has ALWAYS been a huge net negative in the playoffs, and to me, he's the Demar Derozan of bench bigs (huge scoring numbers and free throw rate, but zero versatility or defense and so easy to game plan for in the playoffs). The Lakers front office is being aggressive and you love to see that, but I'm seeing higher talent + less fit. I think Wes Matthews' health will be low key important. Keeping KCP is a must.


They resigned KCP.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#97 » by LakersSoul » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:23 pm

jamaalstar21 wrote:Lakers fans keep saying Marc Gasol.
I'm as a big a Marc Gasol fan as there is but... it should be known, Marc looked completely cooked in the playoffs last year. His offense had already been in free fall for years, and hit rock bottom last year. He can barely finish inside. He's a solid 3-point shooter but famously reluctant to shoot them, meaning teams still just leave him open, knowing he'll opt for meaningless ball movement pretty much every time. He looked like he lost his final step on defense, and is now no longer an elite defensive anchor (the year before, I thought Marc was sneakily still the best defender in the whole league). He was a huge net negative for the Raps in the playoffs.

Maybe these points don't matter if he went to the Lakers, where he'd be playing shorter minutes on a team that can play Anthony Davis at center whenever it really matters. His defense is probably still good enough to help bench units stay in games, and on offense he can still grease the wheels as a screener and passer. I guess, Laker fans, just don't expect age 36 Marc Gasol to move the needle a ton in the playoffs. I think he's mostly cooked, but could still be a positive locker room veteran.

Overall on the Lakers moves... I'm not sure how to feel. Last offseason, the Lakers didn't assemble massive difference makers, but they gathered just the right amount of the ingredients necessary for a Lebron led playoff run. They got perimeter defenders who could catch & shoot (Bradley, Green, KCP). They got extra rim protectors (Javale, Dwight) to make sure the Lakers could always have strong defense even if the offense went hot and cold. I felt last season that they weren't stacked, but the team fit. This year they have increased their talent and scoring prowess with Schroeder and Harrell, replaced most of what they lost. They kept some key pieces. I'm not really sure what the defense looks like anymore. Peak 2020 Laker defense always had 2-3 perimeter pests and 2-3 rim protectors. I'm waiting to see if they add another rim protector to their bench. I'm not convinced Schroeder and Trez are good. I've always loved Schroeder, but last year was his first net positive performance since his contract year with the Hawks. Trez will play great with Lebron but he'll be pretty big detriment to their defense and spacing. Trez has ALWAYS been a huge net negative in the playoffs, and to me, he's the Demar Derozan of bench bigs (huge scoring numbers and free throw rate, but zero versatility or defense and so easy to game plan for in the playoffs). The Lakers front office is being aggressive and you love to see that, but I'm seeing higher talent + less fit. I think Wes Matthews' health will be low key important. Keeping KCP is a must.


Lakers only need Marc to body guys like Joker. Marc will also provide the stretch 5 but doubt he plays more than 11 minutes a game as he should platoon duties with McGee and AD will close with Harrell.

Bradley will be missed but we still have Caruso and THT will play a bigger role with Schröder. On the wings, DGreen has his moments but was struggling most of the time in both O and D. Wes should be solid in D for us and give us 6-7 ppg. Kuzma has really upping his D and if he doesn’t get traded I think that should continue. I also believe we will add another wing D in someone like Craig, just spot D player.

If you watch must of last season, you would see the LeBron led teams build a big lead then when he rests, the lead vanish. So friggin frustrating. Now with a true 3/4 option in Schröder and Harrell plus Kuzma and Caruso, our O should be top tier even when Bron rests.

As for the D, I think the biggest impact was AD. He is still here and we have KCP plus Wes. We just need to shore up against a big like Joker but overall this is a scary team that will blow teams out the floor on many nights.

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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#98 » by Big_Aristotle » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:48 pm

Way too many posters here try to compare year-over-year or stats vs stats;

On paper the Lakers were top-heavy last year, with no consistent 3rd scorer in the team. They had great team defense, decent to great defenders individually and great team chemistry.

Next year, most of that is TBD. We can't compare Harrell or Schroeder from last year with Lakers players from last year. What will happen this year is TBD: different team construct, no bubble, different competition and for the new joiners new coach and new schemes with what should be better help defense... ..

I'm really looking forward to what coach Vogel and the leadership of Lebron can do in combination with the consistency that LBJ, AD, KCP and Caruso can provide. If we look at the past there are great things ahead for the Lakers (i.e. ask Tristan and JR Smith what playing with Lebron did for them)
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#99 » by jamaalstar21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:56 pm

LakersSoul wrote:
Lakers only need Marc to body guys like Joker. Marc will also provide the stretch 5 but doubt he plays more than 11 minutes a game as he should platoon duties with McGee and AD will close with Harrell.

Bradley will be missed but we still have Caruso and THT will play a bigger role with Schröder. On the wings, DGreen has his moments but was struggling most of the time in both O and D. Wes should be solid in D for us and give us 6-7 ppg. Kuzma has really upping his D and if he doesn’t get traded I think that should continue. I also believe we will add another wing D in someone like Craig, just spot D player.

If you watch must of last season, you would see the LeBron led teams build a big lead then when he rests, the lead vanish. So friggin frustrating. Now with a true 3/4 option in Schröder and Harrell plus Kuzma and Caruso, our O should be top tier even when Bron rests.

As for the D, I think the biggest impact was AD. He is still here and we have KCP plus Wes. We just need to shore up against a big like Joker but overall this is a scary team that will blow teams out the floor on many nights.


- I don't like the idea of closing with Harrell. He's a defensive liability that can be exploited, and his total lack of shooting just makes the paint an uglier place for Lebron and AD. This team's strength is the unstoppable combo of AD and Bron. Your best lineup should be playing to their strengths. Harrell will help the Lakers bench scoring, and is a great extra pick & roll partner for Lebron.

- Wes Matthews is a different kind of defender than Green. He's stronger/stouter and is great at not getting bullied, but he doesn't have the same quickness, length or help ability. Matthews has been a good matchup defender, but Green was switcher and a way better helper. You should be getting an offensive boost from Wes Matthews though, just because he's less helpless than Green with the ball in his hands. Danny Green basically can't dribble. Wes isn't the same post up beast he was before his Achilles rupture, but he's still more competent than Green. He's only average as a shooter overall in the last several years of his career. He's not an efficient player at all.

- I agree this souped-up bench will help the Lakers a lot, especially in the regular season. The Lakers offense sometimes felt like it was barely hanging on last season, and I think the Lakers will be blowing a lot more teams out this year. The offense overall should improve, but this will still be a team short on shooting. Maybe this is a top 5 offense, I'm not really sure.

- I'm not convinced (yet!) about Kuzma's defense. He looked really good at times in the playoffs, but he always had a ton of rim protection behind him (some combination of Lebron, AD, McGee, Dwight). It's easier to be aggressive on the perimeter in that kind of lineup configuration. He was overall a huge net negative for the Lakers in the playoffs. I think he played well in the scheme, but I'm not convinced (yet!) he's a defensive asset. It would be cool if he took another leap forward on that end this year.

- I was a big THT fan in last years draft. I hope he has a role on the Lakers this year, but there is no guarantee he's in the rotation and we've barely seen him play. He hasn't cracked 100 NBA minutes. I tuned into that Sacramento bubble game and he looked okay. No reason to expect anything from him this season, but I'm rooting for it.
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Re: Lakers...Deepest Team in the League Now? 

Post#100 » by LakersSoul » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:00 pm

jamaalstar21 wrote:
LakersSoul wrote:
Lakers only need Marc to body guys like Joker. Marc will also provide the stretch 5 but doubt he plays more than 11 minutes a game as he should platoon duties with McGee and AD will close with Harrell.

Bradley will be missed but we still have Caruso and THT will play a bigger role with Schröder. On the wings, DGreen has his moments but was struggling most of the time in both O and D. Wes should be solid in D for us and give us 6-7 ppg. Kuzma has really upping his D and if he doesn’t get traded I think that should continue. I also believe we will add another wing D in someone like Craig, just spot D player.

If you watch must of last season, you would see the LeBron led teams build a big lead then when he rests, the lead vanish. So friggin frustrating. Now with a true 3/4 option in Schröder and Harrell plus Kuzma and Caruso, our O should be top tier even when Bron rests.

As for the D, I think the biggest impact was AD. He is still here and we have KCP plus Wes. We just need to shore up against a big like Joker but overall this is a scary team that will blow teams out the floor on many nights.


- I don't like the idea of closing with Harrell. He's a defensive liability that can be exploited, and his total lack of shooting just makes the paint an uglier place for Lebron and AD. This team's strength is the unstoppable combo of AD and Bron. Your best lineup should be playing to their strengths. Harrell will help the Lakers bench scoring, and is a great extra pick & roll partner for Lebron.

- Wes Matthews is a different kind of defender than Green. He's stronger/stouter and is great at not getting bullied, but he doesn't have the same quickness, length or help ability. Matthews has been a good matchup defender, but Green was switcher and a way better helper. You should be getting an offensive boost from Wes Matthews though, just because he's less helpless than Green with the ball in his hands. Danny Green basically can't dribble. Wes isn't the same post up beast he was before his Achilles rupture, but he's still more competent than Green. He's only average as a shooter overall in the last several years of his career. He's not an efficient player at all.

- I agree this souped-up bench will help the Lakers a lot, especially in the regular season. The Lakers offense sometimes felt like it was barely hanging on last season, and I think the Lakers will be blowing a lot more teams out this year. The offense overall should improve, but this will still be a team short on shooting. Maybe this is a top 5 offense, I'm not really sure.

- I'm not convinced (yet!) about Kuzma's defense. He looked really good at times in the playoffs, but he always had a ton of rim protection behind him (some combination of Lebron, AD, McGee, Dwight). It's easier to be aggressive on the perimeter in that kind of lineup configuration. He was overall a huge net negative for the Lakers in the playoffs. I think he played well in the scheme, but I'm not convinced (yet!) he's a defensive asset. It would be cool if he took another leap forward on that end this year.

- I was a big THT fan in last years draft. I hope he has a role on the Lakers this year, but there is no guarantee he's in the rotation and we've barely seen him play. He hasn't cracked 100 NBA minutes. I tuned into that Sacramento bubble game and he looked okay. No reason to expect anything from him this season, but I'm rooting for it.


All indication from FO and coaches are THT is legit and will get minutes. He prob gets 10-12 mpg as the season progresses.

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