Win or Loss for Leon Rose & the Knicks this off-season?

[Anticon]

Honestly it looks like a logical, reasonably balanced roster. There are no solid veterans but it will take some time to build that.

I think, likely due to Perry, they've started to flip contracts for assets. It hasn't totally born fruit yet, but it's such a chance for them that it's a solid look in the right direction.

They're drafting I'm a bit less convinced by. I like tanking older players, but Topping in the top ten when Avdija was right there doesnt sit well. If he pans out, he's the kind of guy that could have brought some excitement to the team. Based on this thread, that's clearly lacking.

[IAMZOOTED2]

About the same amount as Rob Pelinka when he took the Lakers job. He's not going to turn it around overnight, it's going to take some time.

Outside of the US presidency, what other jobs can a fella like Pelinka or Rose just waltz in feel "qualified" to run a team despite absolutely zero experience?

starting on the agent side seems like the logical first step in becoming a GM. IIRC Steve Kerr was never a coach before he got the warriors job.

Really? To me, a logical first step would be to get into the FO somehow and start learning things from that angle. Certainly being a player agent gives you a cursory understanding of cap space and the like and possibly the skills of working the phones, etc., but I reckon there's a little more at work behind the scenes.

[TGW]

They're still a bottom 5 team in the league.

[basketballRob]

Next year is going to be a good draft

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[prime1time]

According to reports, every free agent that was linked to the Knicks signed else where. Hayward got a mega deal, which would’ve gone down as historically bad, FVV wasn’t leaving Toronto.

Obviously the case is still unknown on Russell Westbrook, but I don’t think at this point Rose is desperate make the Knicks a pretender.

I’m in the middle. I wanted Hayward, but on a 3/70m deal, and look to make a deal with Utah for Conley for Randle, or just sign a starting PG. To build some kind of winning, positive culture without mortgaging the future.

It’s obviously no one wants to sign here, and it’s understandable. And I think Leon Rose & the Knicks know everyone feels that way, and the modern NBA layers want to play for Brooklyn.

But what I see is Rose not caring, and focusing on the youth right now, and the next wave of upcoming prospects.

Right now we look pathetic, but I respect that Rose isn’t making a fool out of himself like Charlotte is.

I’m sure we’re looking to deal Randle but who wants him. If we can deal Randle for a guy like Mike Conley. The Knicks could at least play some respectable ball under Thibs.

Our lineup looks pathetic but I guess it’s what we got to roll with.

Elfrid Payton — Frank Ntilikina — Dennis Smith, Jr
Alec Burks — Immanuel Quickley
RJ Barrett — Kevin Knox
Obi Toppin — Julius Randle
Mitchell Robinson — Nerlens Noel - Ed Davis

2021- NYK 1st, DAL 1st
2022- NYK 1st
2022- NYK 1st, DAL 1st
**Plus a ton of 2nd round picks

**20m cap space available

Are the Knicks doing the right thing here? Because we won’t be good for another 2-3 years.

Non-Knick fans. Do you trust Leon Rose and their FO knows what he’s doing? Lord knows we haven’t had that in over 20 years.

You guys are still tanking so there's not much to judge. I think you guys should stop caring about everyone not named Barett and Toppin. Be way more open to taking bad contracts for assets. And lower your expectations. Allow the young players to grow. Talk of Westbrook is silly. No point. Just keep on growing slowly.

[JB2]

NY needed to fully embrace bottoming out and that seems to be what will happen... even if by mistake. Now, build through the draft, find gems in FA, develop the top picks and young talent you get, and eventually the free agents will come back.

It's why hiring Thibs was such a head scratcher. That dude is going to try to win every single game versus allowing the young guys to play through things.

[Capn'O]

Incomplete. My guess is there's a Randle move to come.

They haven't made any moves that will have a long-term negative impact and they did come away with a great prospect at the top of the draft so in that sense this off-season was a "win" for him... At the same time they are looking like they'll field a bottom tier roster again and will struggle to be competitive.

As far as I'm concerned that second piece is a blessing in disguise, especially if some of their youngsters look like core pieces in the process. A Hayward type deal would have been a disaster.

That said, there have been things I didn't like. Wish they had gone after some guys like Wood/Melton and bringing back Payton is questionable at best. A good move with Randle and some of the draft capital could make the negatives a forest/trees situation.

[Nazrmohamed]

Overview:

No dumb signings.
Not active in collecting assets like Presti.
Good, not great, draft nights.

Encouraging but why so gun shy with so many opportunities to add a decent player with assets attached when the Knicks had cap flexibility?

As far as collecting assets I think we're getting there. Just traded Davis and somehow got 3 picks out of it. Some movement on draft night. Im happy they are at least trying that route. I'm not full Henkei when it comes to a rebuild but I think Presti is someone to look up to. But the real Don of draft swipes is Danny Angela. I dont know why his name isnt automatic.

As far as the team and Rose. I give him a B. I was never inpatient with this rebuild so maybe others will differ but if there was one move or player I was willing to go out and pay it was FVV. Couldve still been extremely frugal elsewhere but I just felt to have a guy only 26 like that who defends, can score, can shoot. I just think that wouldve given the other moves alittle pop.

[adjacent2bench]

Win by losing.

Hornets, Pistons, Magic, Cavaliers will all suck but made moves to ensure they don't suck as much as the Knicks.

Knicks are in a brutal conference, ensuring even more losses. If the ping pong balls bounce their way they could get a Cade Cunningham or Jalen Green.

Tons of cap space for the great 2021 free agent class. Of course we've seen the Knicks play this game for 20 years with no results.

Last statement is false. It’s only been the last five to ten years Knicks have had both cap space and draft capital. Before that they’d trade picks every year and have the highest payroll in the league while still losing. This is definitely a different time for the Knicks.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

I think you're framing the question the wrong way.

By win, do you mean did they sign any of the big available names? Then no.

But actually, not signing those players is a win.

Signing Hayward to that contract would have been a loss.

Trading a bunch of assets to acquire Westbrook would have been a loss.

Maxing out Fred Van Vleet on a team that could win 40 games MAX would have been a loss.

As a Knicks fan that has watched this franchise shortcut their rebuild and try to jump to 38 wins for no reason other than winning the press conference, this is a win.

We acquired a few picks. Signed 2 decent rotation level players for 1-year deals for nothing. Maintained flexibility going forward, and we're probably not even done yet.

If the team can turn Randal's "expiring" deal into a first round pick in exchange for taking bad money, this is 100% a win.

you don't have to sign big names to win an offseason.

The only issue here is the lack of shooting. I wish was a "theory" to this team, or that there was a clear cut direction we were going in. But who exactly did you want us to bring in for shooting at the point guard? FVV? for 20+ mil a year? Jeff Teague who probably didn't want to come here or hasn't proven that he can outplay Shabazz Napier to win the starting spot.

Maxing out free agents like Hayward or FVV or making a big spash for Westbrook would have been a major loss.

There's nothing wrong with a quiet offseason, especially for a team that normally shoots itself in the foot every chance it gets.

[gavran]

They're still a bottom 5 team in the league.

And?

[Tor_Raps]

Huge win for their standards. Let the young guys play. Enough of signing random vets who only care about their stats so they can get bigger checks somewhere else.

Tank, develop, repeat until they become enticing enough for other stars. This time dont trade your Porzingis for nothing.

[Vae Victus]

How much under the salary floor is the NYKs atm? I mean, if theyre gonna bottom out, might as well auction off their cap space, sign some reclamation young players, bring in some promising DLeaguers and Euros for an extended tryout.

[therealbig3]

Definitely a win. Picked up some youth and some draft picks, and didn't do anything dumb, like trading for Westbrook or Wall, or signing Hayward to that insanely bloated contract.

You don't have to always try to make a big splash, which I think they lost sight of for a while there. Just continue to accumulate young talent and assets and develop them properly. And when the right free agent comes along at the right time, go for it.

We'll see how it goes though. Don't think they're definitely out of the Wall or Westbrook "sweepstakes".

[Lalouie]

the knicks will always bomb in FA because no good FA wants to go there.

they have no assets or any asset(singular) they want to keep everybody would want in a trade

they have oodles of cash with no one to spend it on. hayward going elsewhere was a no brainer

as for westbrook, i get the feeling he and harden will stay. hou wants to play hardball w/ harden, westbrook's contract is impossible to move and leon imposed self restraint by declaring he's not giving into rw's contract. it may be the "smart" thing to do but the result is the same.

all aggravated by covid. if i'm a player at least i want to be able to go out and breath some fresh air, and a dank grey megalopolis is just not my idea of spending free time

= leon rose and the knicks will be in a perpetual state of "loss". there's no squeezing blood out of a rock here. there ain't enough lipstick in the world for this pig

their only course of action is make like a small market team and develop young players

[therealbig3]

I do think what hurts them in free agency though is the fact that they've sucked for so much of their history, especially recently. Like, outside of the 90s with Ewing, and the 70s with Frazier/Reed which is when they last won a title...they've been a garbage team with random years here and there when they would make the playoffs...but were still always pretenders on their best day.

So, they're a team that's historically been bad, but somehow has extremely high expectations, with the infamous NY media breathing down your neck. I understand money talks, but I think a lot of the good players in the league actually do care about playing meaningful games and winning. The Knicks don't give them that opportunity. If the Knicks can develop their youth and pick up some blue chip prospects that become stars and can start fielding a competitive team, then they'll get plenty of interest from free agents imo. The allure of the Garden just isn't enough with all the extra baggage that comes with playing for a bad Knicks team, but if it's a good Knicks team? Then players will come.

But again, they have to invest in the right free agents. The contract they gave Amare in the 2010 offseason...like, I get it, he was one of the high profile free agents that was willing to come, and they had already struck out on the big 3 that off season...but I think they totally dismissed the huge red flags surrounding Amare (like how Phoenix was so willing to move on from him because of his knees) and gave him a max deal because they felt they couldn't afford to come away empty-handed from that off season. But even Amare on his best day was always a minimal impact player...he would give back almost as much defensively as he gave you offensively. That's what I mean by targeting the right free agents.

[therealbig3]

the knicks will always bomb in FA because no good FA wants to go there.

they have no assets or any asset(singular) they want to keep everybody would want in a trade

they have oodles of cash with no one to spend it on. hayward going elsewhere was a no brainer

as for westbrook, i get the feeling he and harden will stay. hou wants to play hardball w/ harden, westbrook's contract is impossible to move and leon imposed self restraint by declaring he's not giving into rw's contract. it may be the "smart" thing to do but the result is the same.

all aggravated by covid. if i'm a player at least i want to be able to go out and breath some fresh air, and a dank grey megalopolis is just not my idea of spending free time

= leon rose and the knicks will be in a perpetual state of "loss". there's no squeezing blood out of a rock here. there ain't enough lipstick in the world for this pig

their only course of action is make like a small market team and develop young players

NYC is awesome. Pretty sure most people LOVE the city.

That's not the issue. The issue is they're a loser team, and players typically don't want to sign with loser teams if they can get similar money elsewhere.

The location is fantastic. It's just not as big of a pull as the media makes it out to be. But it can definitely be a factor if the Knicks also give free agents an opportunity to play meaningful basketball.

[jfs1000d]

Win. They didn’t make any dumb deals or flex that they are the New York Yankees of basketball.

Finally, some manager stopped acting like the Knicks are entitled to be good and would be automatically the free agent destination.

Knicks gotta build the old way. Smart moves and watch the cap.


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[Lalouie]

the knicks will always bomb in FA because no good FA wants to go there.

they have no assets or any asset(singular) they want to keep everybody would want in a trade

they have oodles of cash with no one to spend it on. hayward going elsewhere was a no brainer

as for westbrook, i get the feeling he and harden will stay. hou wants to play hardball w/ harden, westbrook's contract is impossible to move and leon imposed self restraint by declaring he's not giving into rw's contract. it may be the "smart" thing to do but the result is the same.

all aggravated by covid. if i'm a player at least i want to be able to go out and breath some fresh air, and a dank grey megalopolis is just not my idea of spending free time

= leon rose and the knicks will be in a perpetual state of "loss". there's no squeezing blood out of a rock here. there ain't enough lipstick in the world for this pig

their only course of action is make like a small market team and develop young players

NYC is awesome. Pretty sure most people LOVE the city.

That's not the issue. The issue is they're a loser team, and players typically don't want to sign with loser teams if they can get similar money elsewhere.

The location is fantastic. It's just not as big of a pull as the media makes it out to be. But it can definitely be a factor if the Knicks also give free agents an opportunity to play meaningful basketball.

well the elephant in the room is dolan of course. and deandre killed ANY chance nyk had in the FA world when he steered kyrie and kd away from the knicks.

but i live in nyc, born but not raised and have been here for 42years. on the one hand i feel safe because we understand the importance of the covid restrictions, queens sex clubs aside LOL, nonetheless it is stifling here and residents in my area are leaving in droves. not to say this would hinder any well paid millionaire athlete but in today's world there are too many other options

[blackcosmos]

weak draft and weak FA class.
I'm not sure what they are suppose to do. unless they sign AD it won't change their season outlook.