Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]"

[Koyen]

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.

16,500 people die per year from ibuprofen. Over 30K people die every year from auto crashes. Medical error, primarily during surgery, kills 250K people per year.

Lets not let athletes take pain medication, not let them drive to games and if they suffer a catastrophic injury, dissuade them from medical surgery. Sure, their career will be over, but there is a chance they die during surgery.

Not taking the vaccine is nonsense. Any player who refuses to take it should be disqualified from playing until they do, and should not get paid.

I am sorry if the mods don't like this comment but I keep seeing this mentality all over (and the mods keep doing nothing about it) and I feel obligated as someone with a history degree (being, you know, someone with expertise for the people who care about that sort of thing) to point out that it is a disgusting, hypocritical, authoritarian stance to say we should individualize and blame healthy people who don't want to take a rushed vaccine for a disease they are not among the vulnerable populations for or else they be made into 2nd class citizens. Everyone calling for **** like this would have been A-Okay putting Japanese-Americans into Internment Camps.

Right... so you are at war with another country, you have a large population of people who migrated from there and you would just let them be wondering around risking potential harm to your war effort on so many levels?

Very solid solution indeed.

[Gooner]

Yeah, good luck.

[djw]

https://news.yahoo.com/said-no-evidence-covid-19-115511010.html

WHO's chief scientist, Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, noted on Monday that the agency had not established whether the COVID-19 vaccines being administered across the US and in Europe prevented people from getting the virus and passing it to others.

"At the moment I don't believe we have the evidence of any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on," Swaminathan told a virtual briefing, in comments reported by Axios.


there goes the narrative 'take the vaccine so you aren't a threat to others'

Well, there is no evidence because it was not part of the studies in order to get the vaccination approved. And you can't really derive that from the vaccinations so far. However, there is a certain likelihood for it as you are more likely to transmit to Coronavirus shorly before you have symptoms / get sick. If the vaccinaction saves you from Covid and, therefore, from having symptoms, you're most likely less likely to transmit the virus.

Also, the vaccination cannot prevent you from getting the virus as your immune system can only start fighting it once it's in your body.

[Sofia]

If the vaccine was so safe, why did pharmaceutical companies want immunity? People keep acting like immediate death is the only side effect. Nobody knows the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine on your immunity response. This is the big issue and nobody can honestly say they know the long term ramifications of taking this vaccine.

Heck, they can't even tell you if you will have to take it again next year and every year for ever.

They’d take immunity on everything they sell if they could negotiate it. Everyone would for any product they manufacture, the pharma companies just happened to be in a position of power at negotiation time.

As for the rest of your post, I made some tweaks, tell me if it’s wrong...

People keep acting like immediate death is the only side effect. Nobody knows the long term effects of covid on your immunity response. This is the big issue and nobody can honestly say they know the long term ramifications of covid.

Heck, they can't even tell you if you will catch covid again next year and every year for ever.

[Sofia]

Shout out to Hollow Earth for bringing some actual data to the thread.

Always a shame to see bull being peddled, including by a mod.

[peja_the_legend]

They are free not to take the vaccine.But i dont want any of them to complain afterwards for the fact that they'll be playing in bubbles and empty arenas for the next 5-10 years until the pandemic is over(IF it is ever over)

[peZt]

That's normally how vaccines work but this vaccines is different. It doesn't actually introduce your body to the virus. It goes into your cells and then changes your cell to recognize the virus.

youre talking about the mRNA vaccine from one of the companies. That tech as been around for a few years. All it does is it brings a partial mrna of the virus into your immune cell so that it can translate it into a protein of the virus. by creating it, the cell recognizes it as an antigen and presents it to other immune cells to create antibodies. Immune cells naturally do these things, especially when it eats and breaks down a foreign protein. The vaccine just makes it more efficient. It doesn't change your DNA. DNA -> RNA ->protein. The mRNA vaccine is just like, here make some of my coded protein so you can create antibodies. And after that's made the mRNA degrades.

there are no long term studies on that.
teaching your body how to make COVID is risky ! it's the reason why this is the FIRST TIME mrna has been used. the vaccine DOES NOT contain the virus live or dead. it tells your body how to make it. for 12 days after taking it you are CONTAGEOUS. so says the WHO.

transfection – has complications that scientists are still researching.

In areas of DNA where RNA binds to one of the DNA threads in such a way that the complementary DNA thread becomes the sole thread (R-loop structures), the DNA stability will change if RNA is chemically modified by m6A.
“Several research groups are now working together to study what effect this can have on the DNA molecule. We already know that R-loop areas are associated with sequences of DNA containing active genes and that this can lead to chromosomal breakage and the loss of genetic information,” explains Klungland. –

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html?fbclid=IwAR3quNmKPWnav16QPn82cBzxvGj8CKt91f_xQPVQvdqbrEgJI4iLCwpFA74

Gtfo with your sources from "anti-vaccines.com". MRNA is the future, not only in vaccinations but also in cancer therapy. It's a revolutionary process that will make the world a better place and help save millions of lives. You're anti science sources that spread fearmongering bull are the reason why we have so many preventable deaths in so many countries. Anti-vaccers and anti-maskers are the same kind of human scum. Sorry for my language but this seriously enrages me.

[peZt]

If the vaccine was so safe, why did pharmaceutical companies want immunity? People keep acting like immediate death is the only side effect. Nobody knows the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine on your immunity response. This is the big issue and nobody can honestly say they know the long term ramifications of taking this vaccine.

Heck, they can't even tell you if you will have to take it again next year and every year for ever.

Because nobody would develop vaccines if they would be held accountable for any side effects resulting from vaccines. Unfortunately we live in a capitalistic world. Money rules and if pharma industries would be sued left and right because their meds cause some side effects, they would determine that it's not worth it to develop any vaccines cause there are ALWAYS some side effects. And stop pretending like the immunity was created solely for the covid vaccine. The PREP Act has been in action since 2005.

[art_tatum]

there are no long term studies on that.
teaching your body how to make COVID is risky ! it's the reason why this is the FIRST TIME mrna has been used. the vaccine DOES NOT contain the virus live or dead. it tells your body how to make it. for 12 days after taking it you are CONTAGEOUS. so says the WHO.

transfection – has complications that scientists are still researching.

In areas of DNA where RNA binds to one of the DNA threads in such a way that the complementary DNA thread becomes the sole thread (R-loop structures), the DNA stability will change if RNA is chemically modified by m6A.
“Several research groups are now working together to study what effect this can have on the DNA molecule. We already know that R-loop areas are associated with sequences of DNA containing active genes and that this can lead to chromosomal breakage and the loss of genetic information,” explains Klungland. –

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html?fbclid=IwAR3quNmKPWnav16QPn82cBzxvGj8CKt91f_xQPVQvdqbrEgJI4iLCwpFA74

This article is not about the vaccines. Nothing so far indicates that the vaccines would have any role in the formation of R-loops.

mRNA from the vaccine never enters the nucleus of the cell and does not affect or interact with a person’s DNA.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

Additionally for anyone concerned about the mRNA vaccine, the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is made in the traditional way. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine.html

it's mRNA and M6A. there is no way to rule this out.

You literally have to engineer the mRNA vaccine to specifically enter the nucleus. Believe me I've made plenty of plasmids and mRNA in grad school.

Also im willing to bet all the money I have that yes these vaccines do lower transmission rate. If they create antibodies and are 90% effective at preventing symptoms that means your body has low viral load. Which means it's harder to transmit. Ofc the WHO can't say that right now bc there's not enough data. (Assuming ur link is legit I didn't even check lol). But it doesn't take a genius to guess what the data will show. Covid isn't some crazy new disease, it's related to SARS.

Just like how professionals couldn't say that masks worked early on cause the didn't have the data, but anyone with common sense knew they would help. It's literally a physical barrier between you and someones fluids.

[nikster]

My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.

You do not understand VAERS or what's its used for. VAERS is extremely unreliable as a source of data. It's self reported and literally anybody can make a claim. There is no requirement of any kind proof. so you can't be sure anybody died at all, if they did die can't prove they got the vaccine, and no causal link required. If you look up measles vaccine in VAERS you will see 100+ deaths reported but we know from extensive post marketing surveillance there is no causal link.

For COVID Vaccine, as far as I'm aware there's only one reported death where there may be a causal link with the vaccine, Don't think there's a single causal link described anywhere else worldwide.

Yes a doctor was saved by an epi pen. It's called an allergic reaction, it's been reported on extensively, it's very rare, it's easy to treat, and not a single person has died from that during these vaccine roll outs.

[Da ThRONe]

youre talking about the mRNA vaccine from one of the companies. That tech as been around for a few years. All it does is it brings a partial mrna of the virus into your immune cell so that it can translate it into a protein of the virus. by creating it, the cell recognizes it as an antigen and presents it to other immune cells to create antibodies. Immune cells naturally do these things, especially when it eats and breaks down a foreign protein. The vaccine just makes it more efficient. It doesn't change your DNA. DNA -> RNA ->protein. The mRNA vaccine is just like, here make some of my coded protein so you can create antibodies. And after that's made the mRNA degrades.

there are no long term studies on that.
teaching your body how to make COVID is risky ! it's the reason why this is the FIRST TIME mrna has been used. the vaccine DOES NOT contain the virus live or dead. it tells your body how to make it. for 12 days after taking it you are CONTAGEOUS. so says the WHO.

transfection – has complications that scientists are still researching.

In areas of DNA where RNA binds to one of the DNA threads in such a way that the complementary DNA thread becomes the sole thread (R-loop structures), the DNA stability will change if RNA is chemically modified by m6A.
“Several research groups are now working together to study what effect this can have on the DNA molecule. We already know that R-loop areas are associated with sequences of DNA containing active genes and that this can lead to chromosomal breakage and the loss of genetic information,” explains Klungland. –

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html?fbclid=IwAR3quNmKPWnav16QPn82cBzxvGj8CKt91f_xQPVQvdqbrEgJI4iLCwpFA74

Gtfo with your sources from "anti-vaccines.com". MRNA is the future, not only in vaccinations but also in cancer therapy. It's a revolutionary process that will make the world a better place and help save millions of lives. You're anti science sources that spread fearmongering bull are the reason why we have so many preventable deaths in so many countries. Anti-vaccers and anti-maskers are the same kind of human scum. Sorry for my language but this seriously enrages me.

Calling people "scum" for reaching a different conclusion is exactly why discussions break down. I haven't read any one person saying mRNA vaccines are not "the future". Teleporting may be the future of transportation, doesn't mean we should use the entire world as test subjects.

I've said this before some people talk as if they own a monopoly on "the science" or that corporations won't perform cover ups to get paid. Not too long ago we found out Johnson and Johnson withheld data that proved body powder cause cancer for 40 years.

I mentioned risk assessment in another thread. IMO it makes no sense to role out a drug or vaccine that been this rushed. Not when you compare the viruses impact on the younger population(especially children). Weighing my options and deciding to pass doesn't make me "scum".

[nikster]

If the vaccine was so safe, why did pharmaceutical companies want immunity? People keep acting like immediate death is the only side effect. Nobody knows the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine on your immunity response. This is the big issue and nobody can honestly say they know the long term ramifications of taking this vaccine.

Heck, they can't even tell you if you will have to take it again next year and every year for ever.

They’d take immunity on everything they sell if they could negotiate it. Everyone would for any product they manufacture, the pharma companies just happened to be in a position of power at negotiation time.

As for the rest of your post, I made some tweaks, tell me if it’s wrong...

People keep acting like immediate death is the only side effect. Nobody knows the long term effects of covid on your immunity response. This is the big issue and nobody can honestly say they know the long term ramifications of covid.

Heck, they can't even tell you if you will catch covid again next year and every year for ever.

In fact we have seen long term effects from covid. We know for a fact they occur. We haven't seen any from the covid vaccine (and all other vaccines too, none have serious adverse events reported more than months after the doses)

[nikster]

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.

16,500 people die per year from ibuprofen. Over 30K people die every year from auto crashes. Medical error, primarily during surgery, kills 250K people per year.

Lets not let athletes take pain medication, not let them drive to games and if they suffer a catastrophic injury, dissuade them from medical surgery. Sure, their career will be over, but there is a chance they die during surgery.

Not taking the vaccine is nonsense. Any player who refuses to take it should be disqualified from playing until they do, and should not get paid.

dieing 2 days after taking the vaccine, after experiencing weakness immediately after getting vaccinated, is not a coincidence.

Yes it can be. They've given literally 10s of millions doses worldwide. You obviously have never looked at a clinical trial before. If I gave 10s of million of people a sip of water some of them will probably die in the next few days. That's why we look at the cause of death and try to determine a relationship, and use control groups for statistical analysis.

In both Pfizer and Modernas trials more people died in the control group than the vaccine group

[nikster]

Your body reacts to antigens all the time, and create antibodies for foreign things. It's pretty much everyday when you were a young kid. All the vaccine is doing is introducing that particular virus (partial or harmless version) so that your body can create a defense for it. Again, your body does this all the time.

That's normally how vaccines work but this vaccines is different. It doesn't actually introduce your body to the virus. It goes into your cells and then changes your cell to recognize the virus.

It doesn't actually change your cell, just uses your cell machinery to produce a single type of protein. That's what all viruses do on a much bigger scale. so the common cold would have more potential do damage your cells than the vaccine

[nikster]

I'm sure that Kyrie will have some type of conspiracy theory against the COVID vaccines and will not be willing to get one.

They should question it, its their bodies, they should not be an experiment mice's and rabbits.

There were 10s of thousands in the clinical trials (these volunteers werre the only ones taking any significant risk) , 10s of million doses administered since. We have better safety data for this covid vaccine than most medical interventions

[binjumper]

dieing from the vaccine is not what concerns most people. it's an MRNA vaccine the first MRNA vaccine in history.

This is false. Since 2015, people have received mRNA vaccines for rabies and HIV.

mRNA vaccines represent a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches because of their high potency, capacity for rapid development and potential for low-cost manufacture and safe administration. However, their application has until recently been restricted by the instability and inefficient in vivo delivery of mRNA. Recent technological advances have now largely overcome these issues, and multiple mRNA vaccine platforms against infectious diseases and several types of cancer have demonstrated encouraging results in both animal models and humans. This Review provides a detailed overview of mRNA vaccines and considers future directions and challenges in advancing this promising vaccine platform to widespread therapeutic use.

http://nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

sorry, I didn't consider the rabies and HIV 'shots'.

Just stop posting about stuff you don't know about.

[peZt]

there are no long term studies on that.
teaching your body how to make COVID is risky ! it's the reason why this is the FIRST TIME mrna has been used. the vaccine DOES NOT contain the virus live or dead. it tells your body how to make it. for 12 days after taking it you are CONTAGEOUS. so says the WHO.

transfection – has complications that scientists are still researching.

In areas of DNA where RNA binds to one of the DNA threads in such a way that the complementary DNA thread becomes the sole thread (R-loop structures), the DNA stability will change if RNA is chemically modified by m6A.
“Several research groups are now working together to study what effect this can have on the DNA molecule. We already know that R-loop areas are associated with sequences of DNA containing active genes and that this can lead to chromosomal breakage and the loss of genetic information,” explains Klungland. –

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html?fbclid=IwAR3quNmKPWnav16QPn82cBzxvGj8CKt91f_xQPVQvdqbrEgJI4iLCwpFA74

Gtfo with your sources from "anti-vaccines.com". MRNA is the future, not only in vaccinations but also in cancer therapy. It's a revolutionary process that will make the world a better place and help save millions of lives. You're anti science sources that spread fearmongering bull are the reason why we have so many preventable deaths in so many countries. Anti-vaccers and anti-maskers are the same kind of human scum. Sorry for my language but this seriously enrages me.

Calling people "scum" for reaching a different conclusion is exactly why discussions break down. I haven't read any one person saying mRNA vaccines are not "the future". Teleporting may be the future of transportation, doesn't mean we should use the entire world as test subjects.

I've said this before some people talk as if they own a monopoly on "the science" or that corporations won't perform cover ups to get paid. Not too long ago we found out Johnson and Johnson withheld data that proved body powder cause cancer for 40 years.

I mentioned risk assessment in another thread. IMO it makes no sense to role out a drug or vaccine that been this rushed. Not when you compare the viruses impact on the younger population(especially children). Weighing my options and deciding to pass doesn't make me "scum".

Yeah idgaf anti-vaccers are scum in my book. That's not a discussion about what your favorite color is. We're talking about denying science and playing with people's lives here

[Mavrelous]

People should be making the decision to take the vaccine on their own. The people who want it should get it, then people who don't shouldn't.

Amazing how this sensible and rational approach gets you labeled as scum on this board.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[nikster]

there are no long term studies on that.
teaching your body how to make COVID is risky ! it's the reason why this is the FIRST TIME mrna has been used. the vaccine DOES NOT contain the virus live or dead. it tells your body how to make it. for 12 days after taking it you are CONTAGEOUS. so says the WHO.

transfection – has complications that scientists are still researching.

In areas of DNA where RNA binds to one of the DNA threads in such a way that the complementary DNA thread becomes the sole thread (R-loop structures), the DNA stability will change if RNA is chemically modified by m6A.
“Several research groups are now working together to study what effect this can have on the DNA molecule. We already know that R-loop areas are associated with sequences of DNA containing active genes and that this can lead to chromosomal breakage and the loss of genetic information,” explains Klungland. –

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html?fbclid=IwAR3quNmKPWnav16QPn82cBzxvGj8CKt91f_xQPVQvdqbrEgJI4iLCwpFA74

Gtfo with your sources from "anti-vaccines.com". MRNA is the future, not only in vaccinations but also in cancer therapy. It's a revolutionary process that will make the world a better place and help save millions of lives. You're anti science sources that spread fearmongering bull are the reason why we have so many preventable deaths in so many countries. Anti-vaccers and anti-maskers are the same kind of human scum. Sorry for my language but this seriously enrages me.

Calling people "scum" for reaching a different conclusion is exactly why discussions break down. I haven't read any one person saying mRNA vaccines are not "the future". Teleporting may be the future of transportation, doesn't mean we should use the entire world as test subjects.

I've said this before some people talk as if they own a monopoly on "the science" or that corporations won't perform cover ups to get paid. Not too long ago we found out Johnson and Johnson withheld data that proved body powder cause cancer for 40 years.

I mentioned risk assessment in another thread. IMO it makes no sense to role out a drug or vaccine that been this rushed. Not when you compare the viruses impact on the younger population(especially children). Weighing my options and deciding to pass doesn't make me "scum".

There's nothing rushed about this. The safety data for these vaccines is already extensive. The phase 3 trials were far larger than other phase 3 trial, whether for other vaccines or medications in general).

Risk assessment is pretty factual and objective. Even in young populations it heavily favours getting the vaccine. Covid has killed over a 100 kids under age of 14, thousands of young adults in the US. As of Sept 26th, close to 1 in 1000 adults 18-29 were hospitalized due to Covid. That's before the 2nd wave, so it's gonna be higher now.

Based on the phase 3 clinical trials alone, any serious reaction not detected has less than a 1 in 10 000 chance of occurring. The patients in those trials were the only test subjects. We've given 10s of millions of doses since then with no concerns popping up, so that risk is gonna be way way lower. Vaccinating the entire young population wouldn't be expected to cause any deaths.

Dont see how any kind of objective look at risk assessment determines this vaccine is not a good idea. People who are hesitant about this vaccine are not scum. People pushing vaccine fear mongering and misinformation are.

[Da ThRONe]

Your body reacts to antigens all the time, and create antibodies for foreign things. It's pretty much everyday when you were a young kid. All the vaccine is doing is introducing that particular virus (partial or harmless version) so that your body can create a defense for it. Again, your body does this all the time.

That's normally how vaccines work but this vaccines is different. It doesn't actually introduce your body to the virus. It goes into your cells and then changes your cell to recognize the virus.

It doesn't actually change your cell, just uses your cell machinery to produce a single type of protein. That's what all viruses do on a much bigger scale. so the common cold would have more potential do damage your cells than the vaccine

If your cell is introduced to anything and starts to produce proteins it would have otherwise not produced had it not come into contact with said thing that thing has changed the cell.

Why is this an argument? People keep saying it doesn't change the cell it does. Now what it's not supposed to done is change the DNA inside of the cell. Not sure why the word change has such a negative connotation that people want to argue semantics.