Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]"

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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#41 » by kj_ » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:30 pm

Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.

It’s misinformation peddling unless supported by a reliable source. A link to the reporting site is not a reliable source. Show us what your wife showed you, or keep the comments to yourself.

You’d think people would have learned by now the damage that can be done from spreading misinformation.


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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#42 » by Pattycakes » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 pm

All these people on the board like “oh don’t worry the players will be the first in line”, I may have literally been wondering wtf you are thinking on that one. They’re athletes, that doesn’t mean they can’t think for themselves.
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#43 » by SlovenianDragon » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 pm

If we are really trying to lower the covid cases in the NBA all players should be required to wear a hazmat suit...

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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#44 » by DevilsAvocado » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:34 pm

Would the situation be comparable at all to the second hand smoke while working indoors rationale?
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#45 » by Saints14 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:36 pm

Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.


I'm not anti-vax or anything and I'll be getting the vaccine myself, but I'm kind of ok with young healthy athletes deciding to take their chances with a virus that's shown to be highly unlikely to harm them vs a vaccine that certainly has some edge-case harms that weren't fully fleshed out given the expedited timeline
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Re: Haberstroh says 

Post#46 » by xAIRNESSx » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:37 pm

Heej wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
Was the cause of death actually the vaccine or did 12 people that took the vaccine die in December? Because if it's the former, misinformation like that is why this pandemic has been increasingly difficult to manage.


I agree. To say that people have died directly due to the vaccine is pretty dangerous unless there is evidence to show the actual linkage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html

About nine million people in the United States have received at least one shot of either the Pfizer or Moderna coronavirus vaccine, the two authorized in the United States. So far, serious problems reported were 29 cases of anaphylaxis, a severe allergic reaction. None were reported as fatal. Many people have had other side effects like sore arms, fatigue, headache or fever, which are usually transient.

Something tells me this logic hasn't been applied consistently across the board tho :lol:. Seems like we pick and choose what rigor we apply scrutiny to for claims of direct causes of death


That's a pretty disingenuous claim. There's data for when covid was the sole cause of death or if it was a contributing factor on someone with other conditions.

I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. We know people can die from covid. If people are dying form the vaccine, that would be a pretty serious problem for numerous reasons. Since we want everyone to get the vaccine, you'd probably want claims about vaccine related deaths to be confirmed before taking them as fact.
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Re: Haberstroh says 

Post#47 » by thinktank » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:37 pm

kj_ wrote:
Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.

It’s misinformation peddling unless supported by a reliable source. A link to the reporting site is not a reliable source. Show us what your wife showed you, or keep the comments to yourself.

You’d think people would have learned by now the damage that can be done from spreading misinformation.


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I agree.

This looks like an intentional attempt to spread misinformation.

There’s absolutely NOTHING in that post that backs up the claim that 12 people have died from the covid vaccine.

And now that he said 12 people died it forces us to refute his misinfo.

I friggin hate fake news.
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Re: Haberstroh says 

Post#48 » by xAIRNESSx » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:39 pm

Kilroy wrote:
xAIRNESSx wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
Was the cause of death actually the vaccine or did 12 people that took the vaccine die in December? Because if it's the former, misinformation like that is why this pandemic has been increasingly difficult to manage.


I agree. To say that people have died directly due to the vaccine is pretty dangerous unless there is evidence to show the actual linkage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html

About nine million people in the United States have received at least one shot of either the Pfizer or Moderna coronavirus vaccine, the two authorized in the United States. So far, serious problems reported were 29 cases of anaphylaxis, a severe allergic reaction. None were reported as fatal. Many people have had other side effects like sore arms, fatigue, headache or fever, which are usually transient.


Correct, but this was just for the month of December. Not that many doses had been delivered yet.


The NYT reports there have been no fatal cases reported in the US since the vaccine was adminsitered.

I had some trouble navigating that site as well. Where does it show the 12 deaths in December?
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#49 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:43 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:I thought the NBA was supposed to be woke. Doesn't woke entail taking Covid seriously, i.e. getting vaccinated?


Kyrie legit thinks the world is flat. Just imagine how he feels about vaccines.
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#50 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:44 pm

Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.


I think it's fair to say that any death even close to being related to a vaccine injection is in the VAERS db. It would be incredibly irresponsible of all medical personnel involved to not log the case.

It's also really difficult to establish causality.

The Pfizer study was released ages ago now. 6 people died and 4 of them got the placebo. The 2 people that got the vaccine and then later died were not causally linked.

In Canada we've done over a quarter million vaccinations with no deaths and no side effects that weren't already on the list of known side effects.

Vaccines aren't perfect but they're a heck of a lot safer than getting Covid.
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Re: Haberstroh says 

Post#51 » by ConSarnit » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 pm

Kilroy wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
Why don't you be the judge... I didn't invent the website or the data... It's an actual Government org, set up to monitor/track vaccine effectiveness.

It's a mixed bag from what I can see, but then again, so is the lethality of COVID, but we're all told to react the same way....

The numbers are 12 deaths, 41 life threatening reactions without death, 3780 reactions that were non life threatening but with unknown long term effects.

Just info... Take it how you will...


Can you link to the death statistics? I can’t find them on that site. It seems odd to me that zero media has reported the 12 deaths if the info is so publicly available. Seems like that would be very difficult to bury.

It seems like the adverse reactions are largely from the Pfizer vaccine, so perhaps the other vaccines would be a better option.


You have to accept the disclaimer and download either the CDC or the VAERS data (or both)... I can't point you directly to it. You have to download it and sift through it yourself. It's a lot.. I think like 300pgs...


So based on what I can see (using their filters: COVID VACCINE > DEATHS) there are 10 reported deaths, all over the age of 60. It's difficult to parse this information.

10,200,000 have received the vaccine in the US
1,080,000 of those have been to LTC residents

I'd say we can assume over 1mil 60+ year olds have received the vaccine (at least). 10 people have died after the vaccine but it doesn't say whether they died 6 hours after the vaccine or 12 days after. I guess my question is: how many of the 60+ who were vaccinated would have died regardless during that time period? They are providing correlating numbers but not causation.

Generally, it would seem like if you are under 60 and have no history of anaphylaxis there is very low/no risk in taking the vaccine (so far).
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#52 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:If we are really trying to lower the covid cases in the NBA all players should be required to wear a hazmat suit...

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I'd probably enjoy the NBA product a bit more watching 10 players run around in those suits. :lol:
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#53 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:56 pm

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:Crazy that individuals on are on board with forcing perfectly healthy people to take an experimental vaccine that was just made a few months ago


This vaccine is not experimental and it's extremely irresponsible to call it that.

The vaccines went through:
pre-clinical trials (primates)
Phase 1 trials
Phase 2 trials
Phase 3 trials

They went through every study that any other vaccine goes through. Please educate yourself and stop spreading dangerous misinformation.

Research on Coronavirus vaccines started in 2002. These current vaccines are born out of that and also MERS and SARS research. If the science actually started from scratch we would be another year out.
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#54 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:03 pm

Saints14 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.


I'm not anti-vax or anything and I'll be getting the vaccine myself, but I'm kind of ok with young healthy athletes deciding to take their chances with a virus that's shown to be highly unlikely to harm them vs a vaccine that certainly has some edge-case harms that weren't fully fleshed out given the expedited timeline


It's not about harm it's about transmission.
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#55 » by mademan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:10 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
US's history of drug experimentation on african americans is pretty disgusting. The government doesnt have the trust of the african american community, and im not sure why they should. It's on the government to make the people believe theyre worthy of that trust


This is just so overstated. The tuskeege experiments are by and large the biggest example provided for this mistrust and while horrible, there is no argument that it should lead to the current backlash and mistrust. The drug experimentation argument is used to excuse ignorance.

The government literally worked on mind control, tested acid on unwilling subjects and did a litany of other horrible things relating to MK Ultra but we still dont let this normalize the QAnon idiots. Yet we allow this nonsense to normalize in black communities.


Thats just experimentation. You dont have to go that far back to see why there is distrust amongst the african american community for government medical services. The disparate treatment that black people get today is reason enough
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#56 » by Pointgod » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:10 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
Kilroy wrote:My thing is this though... I think by all accounts, professional athletes are one of the least 'at-risk' demographics for dying from Covid... Why have them be the face of the Covid 19 vaccine? Why mandate it for that group in particular?

Because the works is full of conspiracy theory idiots (such as the plenty we’ve seen in this thread) and seeing high profile people get the vaccine assists with convincing people to also get the shot.

We had idiots oppose the Polio vaccine and Elvis got his live on television which significantly helped convince people to get it.

Humans don’t learn from history apparently, and we have a bunch of keyboard Warriors here trying to tell us the vaccine isn’t safe when we have thousands of people who have gone to school to research, test, and implement these types of things telling us it’s fine. I wonder who I should believe?

IMO the vaccine is a choice - however, if yoy don’t want it then you aren’t allowed to be a normal part of society. I don’t want to work beside someone who isn’t vaccinated. I don’t want my kids sitting next to unvaccinated kids at school.

If this vaccine doesn’t grant us heed immunity because some tin foil hats **** don’t get it because they’re reading misinformation or misinterpreting good information then I’ll be **** pissed. Selfish as ****.


This. I have a feeling the people that don’t want to take the vaccine wont volunteer to stay inside until herd immunity is reached. And while I appreciate the legal and personal complications with work places mandating vaccines, everyone needs to play their part no matter your choice. My problem with anti vaxxers is that they want everyone to cater to them without playing their part.

As for NBA players the people that say they’re healthy so they shouldn’t get the vaccine don’t take into full account the scope of officials, coaching staff, support staff and other people that they interact with. They’re most likely to be the vectors to spread infection so it would actually make sense to have them get vaccinated but I’m not in favor of line skipping just because they’re athletes.
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#57 » by bovice » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:10 pm

:roll:
YogurtProducer wrote:Don’t get vaccinated = you don’t play or get paid

Seems simple to me


I don't think organizations can legally mandate the vaccine. like even hospitals can't force all employees to get it. they can incentivize it tho
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#58 » by mademan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:11 pm

MadDogSHWA wrote:
Saints14 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.


I'm not anti-vax or anything and I'll be getting the vaccine myself, but I'm kind of ok with young healthy athletes deciding to take their chances with a virus that's shown to be highly unlikely to harm them vs a vaccine that certainly has some edge-case harms that weren't fully fleshed out given the expedited timeline


It's not about harm it's about transmission.


Maybe this vaccine is different, but vaccines arent supposed to stop transmission. Theyre supposed to prepare your body for the virus. You still catch the virus and can transmit it, but it's supposed to prepare your body to fight off the virus with minimal damage
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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#59 » by Saints14 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:14 pm

MadDogSHWA wrote:
Saints14 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:My wife was just showing me the VAERS (https://vaers.hhs.gov/) numbers for the vaccine...
12 people died from the vaccine in December. Those are just the people who filed a complaint with VAERS... So only the people who died had a complaint filed. There were a lot more adverse reactions than that. One doctor described being saved by an Epi-pen...
The media has incorrect data according to the government.

I would think the NBA should really look at the data before promoting anything, especially any kind of medical procedure, where an actual side effect is death.


I'm not anti-vax or anything and I'll be getting the vaccine myself, but I'm kind of ok with young healthy athletes deciding to take their chances with a virus that's shown to be highly unlikely to harm them vs a vaccine that certainly has some edge-case harms that weren't fully fleshed out given the expedited timeline


It's not about harm it's about transmission.


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Re: Haberstroh says "Good luck getting players/coaches fully on board with [vaccines]" 

Post#60 » by MadDogSHWA » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:16 pm

mademan wrote:
MadDogSHWA wrote:
Saints14 wrote:
I'm not anti-vax or anything and I'll be getting the vaccine myself, but I'm kind of ok with young healthy athletes deciding to take their chances with a virus that's shown to be highly unlikely to harm them vs a vaccine that certainly has some edge-case harms that weren't fully fleshed out given the expedited timeline


It's not about harm it's about transmission.


Maybe this vaccine is different, but vaccines arent supposed to stop transmission. Theyre supposed to prepare your body for the virus. You still catch the virus and can transmit it, but it's supposed to prepare your body to fight off the virus with minimal damage


You should google herd immunity.
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