Will we ever see an organic champion again?

Moderators: zimpy27, KingDavid, jamaalstar21, infinite11285, BombsquadSammy, ken6199, Domejandro, bwgood77, Dirk

Metallikid
Head Coach
Posts: 7,060
And1: 6,536
Joined: Mar 10, 2010
       

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#101 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:49 am

Liam_Gallagher wrote:Were the Lakers not organic last year? I thought they were a middle-of-the-pact team with aging role players/left-overs like Rondo, Howard, Green and Cousins.

Funny how the goal posts change so often.


You're not serious, are you?

Image
Red Shoelace - HangTime - VinBaker6 - 6ixSideSniper

* * * * * * * BOARD MEN * GET TITLES * * * * * * *
User avatar
Mik317
RealGM
Posts: 29,870
And1: 10,016
Joined: May 31, 2005
Location: In your head....you have issues breh
       

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#102 » by Mik317 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 am

you get 7 years to build a winner and if you don't then the player will probably leave. The Bucks are still a winner and showed Giannis that they will keep trying to get better...so he stayed. The Rockets capped out and their last ditch effort didn't work out...**** happens and you gotta move on. No one is going to stay in a situation that doesn't benefit them any longer. Thats just how life works lol
#NeverGonnaBeGood
User avatar
GrandTheftRondo
Head Coach
Posts: 6,699
And1: 5,508
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#103 » by GrandTheftRondo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:02 am

Some in here are missing the point. Players have left for decades.

It has become something different than that. Teams with stars are on borrowed time from the moment they draft them. They have to compete against star studded teams that can just stack their teams with stars every year.

It is a recurring cycle.

The game has become the ultimate sport for casuals. Who cares about rivalries, good storylines etc? If you lose in the NBA now you can just run off to a buddy and beat everyone.

It makes for a crap product. Who here other than Warriors fans enjoyed the Warriors winning with ease with KD every year?

And now a new precedent has been set with Harden. Your star cracks it and you are forced to give him up for peanuts.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 17,799
And1: 13,700
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#104 » by HeartBreakKid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:06 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:Some in here are missing the point. Players have left for decades.

It has become something different than that. Teams with stars are on borrowed time from the moment they draft them. They have to compete against star studded teams that can just stack their teams with stars every year.

It is a recurring cycle.

The game has become the ultimate sport for casuals. Who cares about rivalries, good storylines etc? If you lose in the NBA now you can just run off to a buddy and beat everyone.

It makes for a crap product. Who here other than Warriors fans enjoyed the Warriors winning with ease with KD every year?

Yeah? Clubs should make good signings and championship teams if they expect their players to stay. Why should we go back to when owners had all the power?

7 years is plenty of time, and is a significant chunk of an athletes career. James Harden certainly paid his dues, I don't see a problem with him getting traded.

The NBA was never big on club rivalries.

Storylines? There is plenty of them every year, otherwise no one would have anything to talk about.

The Warriors were an outlier, no team was ever that stacked before the Warriors came into the picture, maybe except for the 83 Sixers.
Mr B
Head Coach
Posts: 6,978
And1: 1,632
Joined: Nov 20, 2014
         

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#105 » by Mr B » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:10 am

Yeggo Poleggo wrote:Kobe Bryant was the very last one.

Actually Dirk played 1 year longer than Kobe. So he’s actually the last.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr B
Head Coach
Posts: 6,978
And1: 1,632
Joined: Nov 20, 2014
         

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#106 » by Mr B » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:11 am

Effigy wrote:
Liam_Gallagher wrote:Were the Lakers not organic last year? I thought they were a middle-of-the-pact team with aging role players/left-overs like Rondo, Howard, Green and Cousins.

Funny how the goal posts change so often.



Those players aren't the reason they aren't organic.

But to answer your question, no, the Lakers aren't organic and they haven't won an organic title since Magic. Not that that matters in the slightest. I'd take the Lakers' 6 titles since then over the Blazers 0 or the Warriors' 1 or whatever.

IgorK wrote:Define "organic".

Is signing free agents organic? Is trading for players organic? Is changing coaches organic? Are there degrees to everything?

In reality, nobody has the right to define this concept universally. We all have opinions about it and everybody is right and wrong at the same time.



Basically your best players need to have been drafted by your team (Without forcing their way to your team like John Elway to Denver or Eli Manning to the Giants) So the Warriors were organic for their first title only, the Spurs were organic also. The Mavs I guess were organic, though I think the only impact guy they drafted was Dirk but he was by far their best player, none of their other guys were highly coveted at that point.

Technically they drafted Kidd too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
GrandTheftRondo
Head Coach
Posts: 6,699
And1: 5,508
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#107 » by GrandTheftRondo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:12 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:Some in here are missing the point. Players have left for decades.

It has become something different than that. Teams with stars are on borrowed time from the moment they draft them. They have to compete against star studded teams that can just stack their teams with stars every year.

It is a recurring cycle.

The game has become the ultimate sport for casuals. Who cares about rivalries, good storylines etc? If you lose in the NBA now you can just run off to a buddy and beat everyone.

It makes for a crap product. Who here other than Warriors fans enjoyed the Warriors winning with ease with KD every year?

Yeah? Clubs should make good signings and championship teams if they expect their players to stay. Why should we go back to when owners had all the power?

7 years is plenty of time, and is a significant chunk of an athletes career. James Harden certainly paid his dues, I don't see a problem with him getting traded.

The NBA was never big on club rivalries.

Storylines? There is plenty of them every year, otherwise no one would have anything to talk about.

The Warriors were an outlier, no team was ever that stacked before the Warriors came into the picture, maybe except for the 83 Sixers.

Teams do make good moves. Even the best teams make some mistakes with players. You could point to countless examples of star players who won titles after sticking it out with teams after rough times.

I don’t have a problem with him leaving. It’s for him being traded for peanuts so he can play on a stacked team. He just decided he wanted to win easy like numerous other stars now and forced Houston to cater to his will.

The NBA has always had rivalries I have no idea what you are talking about. I don’t know about you but I much prefer seeing a few teams build genuine rivalries and go at it for a few years. That is a thing of the past now. Someone loses to someone in the conference finals and they’ll go run off crying to another team to their pal.

The Warriors weren’t an outlier. They were the best of the super teams but they are one of a number. Before that LeBron sleptwalked to the NBA finals every year with Miami. Now he’s going to do the same with LA.

The lack of competitiveness stinks. I don’t care about this star vs star BS. It is not a better product .
SomeBunghole
Junior
Posts: 305
And1: 454
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
     

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#108 » by SomeBunghole » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:20 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:Yeah? Clubs should make good signings and championship teams if they expect their players to stay.


There's only one team winning the title each year. Last 22 championships have been won by 8 teams. And of those 22, 17 have been won by the same 4 teams.

Yet 10-12 of the top players in the NBA all expect to win a championship. The numbers just don't work, unless of course those dozen players all end up on 2 or 3 teams. Which can't even be fulfilling for the players either. LeBron knows his rings are worthless and you can tell it eats him up inside.

It's like when I was a pimply faced teenager and would play NBA Live 96 and 97 ad nauseam. Jazz are my team, use the editor to swap Greg Ostertag and David Robinson, and then run the season mode. Shocking outcome #1: I won the title. Shocking outcome #2: it didn't feel like much of an accomplishment.
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 31,575
And1: 13,563
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#109 » by Curmudgeon » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:09 am

You may see one in Boston. Tatum, Brown and Smart are all homegrown. In fact, of the 17 players on the current roster, only three-- Kemba Walker, Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague-- have played for an NBA team other than the Celtics.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
User avatar
HEKTOR
Starter
Posts: 2,083
And1: 892
Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#110 » by HEKTOR » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:15 am

It would seem as though it just happens a lot more often now than before and often sooner.
LakersLegacy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,622
And1: 2,435
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
   

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#111 » by LakersLegacy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:27 am

Just my opinion, the Mavs will win one someday. Perhaps not someday soon. Luka
60odbye Kobe
lambchop
Head Coach
Posts: 6,101
And1: 5,847
Joined: May 14, 2014

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#112 » by lambchop » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:38 am

IgorK wrote:
so_bored wrote:Lebron started this BS. It's really all his fault. Can't wait for this fraud to retire.


Typical hater rhetoric. Superteams were built before LeBron's exit from Cleveland.


It basically started when people started overvaluing championships and not giving "playoff losers" their respect.

If harden wins a title now, will he no longer be considered a "playoff choker"? At some point players get tired of hearing about lebron's greatness or curry's gravity etc when they feel as though it's easy to win in those scenarios.

If Lillard forced his way to the Lakers, he could also finally be a champion lol, while facing single coverage and shooting 55% from three on mainly open looks.
User avatar
GregOden
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,385
And1: 1,352
Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#113 » by GregOden » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:41 am

Yeggo Poleggo wrote:Kobe Bryant was the very last one.


Dirk won a more recent title...
User avatar
GusFring
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,250
And1: 1,674
Joined: Sep 08, 2018
 

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#114 » by GusFring » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:59 am

2015 dubs were organic. Curry, Klay, draymond all drafted. Bogut gained by a smart trade, iggy being their only big FA signing.
coldfish wrote:I used to think that the Bulls scouting department didn't have access to advanced stats.

I now thing that the Bulls scouting department doesn't have access to electricity or any devices that actually use it.
Jkam31
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,327
And1: 3,057
Joined: Feb 23, 2014

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#115 » by Jkam31 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:01 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:Some in here are missing the point. Players have left for decades.

It has become something different than that. Teams with stars are on borrowed time from the moment they draft them. They have to compete against star studded teams that can just stack their teams with stars every year.

It is a recurring cycle.

The game has become the ultimate sport for casuals. Who cares about rivalries, good storylines etc? If you lose in the NBA now you can just run off to a buddy and beat everyone.

It makes for a crap product. Who here other than Warriors fans enjoyed the Warriors winning with ease with KD every year?

And now a new precedent has been set with Harden. Your star cracks it and you are forced to give him up for peanuts.


If you think about it there no point unless your the lakers or another big market. Draft a find a star he doesn’t win he’s demanding a trade to go with his buddy **** lame
Gooner
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,465
And1: 5,067
Joined: Sep 02, 2018
 

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#116 » by Gooner » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:05 am

so_bored wrote:Lebron started this BS. It's really all his fault. Can't wait for this fraud to retire.


That's his legacy, he pussyfied the NBA.
John Murdoch
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,890
And1: 4,235
Joined: Sep 16, 2013
         

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#117 » by John Murdoch » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:09 am

OP is def Ainge
Blackification wrote:I **** hate that crackhead corey brewer


Magic#1 wrote:We have won two playoff games in two years. If we decide to keep this team for the next two years, maybe it will feel like we won a series.
szkorhetz
Freshman
Posts: 52
And1: 24
Joined: Feb 04, 2009

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#118 » by szkorhetz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:11 am

Yeggo Poleggo wrote:Kobe Bryant was the very last one.

What about the Spurs '14 title?
pr0wler
Analyst
Posts: 3,144
And1: 2,137
Joined: Jun 04, 2007
     

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#119 » by pr0wler » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:16 am

Liam_Gallagher wrote:Were the Lakers not organic last year? I thought they were a middle-of-the-pact team with aging role players/left-overs like Rondo, Howard, Green and Cousins.

Funny how the goal posts change so often.


Only idiots who said things like "AD hasn't done ****" before the season started, because they're heavily subjected to winners bias, had that narrative. A team with two of the 3 best players in the league wasn't surprising that they went through the playoffs.

They also had a relatively easy post season schedule. They just had get through the mediocre Blazers, the Rockets with Jokebrook, and Denver and Miami who caught lightning in a bottle and were in over their head.
pr0wler
Analyst
Posts: 3,144
And1: 2,137
Joined: Jun 04, 2007
     

Re: Will we ever see an organic champion again? 

Post#120 » by pr0wler » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:22 am

GrandTheftRondo wrote:Some in here are missing the point. Players have left for decades.

It has become something different than that. Teams with stars are on borrowed time from the moment they draft them. They have to compete against star studded teams that can just stack their teams with stars every year.

It is a recurring cycle.

The game has become the ultimate sport for casuals. Who cares about rivalries, good storylines etc? If you lose in the NBA now you can just run off to a buddy and beat everyone.

It makes for a crap product. Who here other than Warriors fans enjoyed the Warriors winning with ease with KD every year?

And now a new precedent has been set with Harden. Your star cracks it and you are forced to give him up for peanuts.


I think the precedent was set a while ago, Harden is just another example of the many stars of recent years forcing their way out of town.

I miss the days when teams had "brands" like OKC was Russ/Durant/Ibaka, the Warriors with Curry/Dray/Klay, Spurs were Duncan/Parker/Manu/Kawhi, Cavs were LeBron/Kyrie/Love etc. These were teams that had the same or similar core for multiple years and you could identify with them.

Now every other year random superstars join up with each other, throw on a jersey of some city they want to play for, and try to win a title. It doesn't work out in 2 years? Blow it up and gang up with some other Top 10 players and see if that sticks. For me it cheapens the legacy of a franchise and makes the titles feel a lot more hollow. The team structure of the league feels more like a glorified version of a YMCA drop-in than it does NBA teams with a relatively cohesive roster over a number of years.

Return to The General Board