Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM

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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#81 » by itrsteve » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:So anyway -- is Houston going to make a serious attempt to keep Oladipo, or do they envision flipping him?

More generally, what's the point of taking him rather then Levert?


LeVert is locked up for 3 more seasons, Dipo is on a contract year. Shedding contract money was his point.

They get to run a neat experiment to see if Dipo works, or dump him off to a team who can absorb the space prior to the deadline.

Clearly, LeVert is the better asset, but that's not the mode they're in right now.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#82 » by evevale » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:57 am

Celtics focused on making a solid NBA team. Nets focused on making an all-star NBA2k21 team
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#83 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:00 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:The issue is that with all these stars who want out, who do they always ask for? Brown or Tatum.

Which is a steep price. Especially what you consider what these guys are actually traded for.

George gets traded for Oladipo and young Sabonis
Kawhi gets traded for DeRozan
AD gets traded for Ingram/Ball
Butler got traded for...Covington?
Harden gets traded for Oladipo

Now Jaylen wasn’t as good then as he is now but I think it’s laughable that the Celtics are always expected to give up a franchise guy when (aside from the AD trade) the team trading the superstar always accepts far less in return.

Teams only want to win a deal with Ainge and the only way to do that is to pry Jaylen or Jayson away, which Ainge would be stupid to do.

I’ll lock Ainge for not finding a way to get potential DPOY Turner but I won’t fault him for sticking by his two stars as their potential is really starting to pay off.


Legitimate question - What would you prefer?

Trading Brown for Harden and winning the 2022 title

or

Keeping Tatum and Brown together for the duration of their careers with Tatum being a HOF level player and Brown being a 'team retirement' level player, but you never get past Game 7 of the ECF
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#84 » by scottyno » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
IgorK wrote:Tatum + Brown is a better bet for the next 10 years than Harden for the next 3.

As much as I despise Ainge, passing on old superstars in favor of continuing to develop terrific young core is not a fault but a strength.


So what? they arent winning anything for the next 3yr~~5yrs. The east is stacked and celtics are not even contenders anymore.
you had unlimited frps and wasted it all on useless prospects. could have gotten at least 2 of those superstars and won it all without sacrificing the core.


In what universe could they ever have gotten 2 of the guys listed in the OP without sacrificing "the core"? They would have had to give up most of the core just to get ONE of those guys. Nevermind the fact that they would have got one and then he would have left before they could get the other one.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#85 » by Joshyjess » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:05 am

Metallikid wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:The issue is that with all these stars who want out, who do they always ask for? Brown or Tatum.

Which is a steep price. Especially what you consider what these guys are actually traded for.

George gets traded for Oladipo and young Sabonis
Kawhi gets traded for DeRozan
AD gets traded for Ingram/Ball
Butler got traded for...Covington?
Harden gets traded for Oladipo

Now Jaylen wasn’t as good then as he is now but I think it’s laughable that the Celtics are always expected to give up a franchise guy when (aside from the AD trade) the team trading the superstar always accepts far less in return.

Teams only want to win a deal with Ainge and the only way to do that is to pry Jaylen or Jayson away, which Ainge would be stupid to do.

I’ll lock Ainge for not finding a way to get potential DPOY Turner but I won’t fault him for sticking by his two stars as their potential is really starting to pay off.


Legitimate question - What would you prefer?

Trading Brown for Harden and winning the 2022 title

or

Keeping Tatum and Brown together for the duration of their careers with Tatum being a HOF level player and Brown being a 'team retirement' level player, but you never get past Game 7 of the ECF

You forgot the other option- They trade Brown and Smart for Harden. Don't win it next year, and then Harden walks, leaving the C's with Tatum, maybe Kemba, and some huge gaping holes. Harden was NOT worth the risk. Plus right now, Brown is producing at a level which makes the trade so much easier to say "no" to.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#86 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:11 am

Joshyjess wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:The issue is that with all these stars who want out, who do they always ask for? Brown or Tatum.

Which is a steep price. Especially what you consider what these guys are actually traded for.

George gets traded for Oladipo and young Sabonis
Kawhi gets traded for DeRozan
AD gets traded for Ingram/Ball
Butler got traded for...Covington?
Harden gets traded for Oladipo

Now Jaylen wasn’t as good then as he is now but I think it’s laughable that the Celtics are always expected to give up a franchise guy when (aside from the AD trade) the team trading the superstar always accepts far less in return.

Teams only want to win a deal with Ainge and the only way to do that is to pry Jaylen or Jayson away, which Ainge would be stupid to do.

I’ll lock Ainge for not finding a way to get potential DPOY Turner but I won’t fault him for sticking by his two stars as their potential is really starting to pay off.


Legitimate question - What would you prefer?

Trading Brown for Harden and winning the 2022 title

or

Keeping Tatum and Brown together for the duration of their careers with Tatum being a HOF level player and Brown being a 'team retirement' level player, but you never get past Game 7 of the ECF

You forgot the other option- They trade Brown and Smart for Harden. Don't win it next year, and then Harden walks, leaving the C's with Tatum, maybe Kemba, and some huge gaping holes. Harden was NOT worth the risk. Plus right now, Brown is producing at a level which makes the trade so much easier to say "no" to.


That's not what the hypothetical is. The question is would you rather have one title with Harden and perhaps have a smaller overall period of success if Harden leaves, retires, or declines rapidly after Ainge gives him an extension. Or would you prefer not winning a title but having Brown and Tatum become Celtic legends? This is a real question. Teams who have never won a title have less leeway in this department.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#87 » by scottyno » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:14 am

Metallikid wrote:
Joshyjess wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Legitimate question - What would you prefer?

Trading Brown for Harden and winning the 2022 title

or

Keeping Tatum and Brown together for the duration of their careers with Tatum being a HOF level player and Brown being a 'team retirement' level player, but you never get past Game 7 of the ECF

You forgot the other option- They trade Brown and Smart for Harden. Don't win it next year, and then Harden walks, leaving the C's with Tatum, maybe Kemba, and some huge gaping holes. Harden was NOT worth the risk. Plus right now, Brown is producing at a level which makes the trade so much easier to say "no" to.


That's not what the hypothetical is. The question is would you rather have one title with Harden and perhaps have a smaller overall period of success if Harden leaves, retires, or declines rapidly after Ainge gives him an extension. Or would you prefer not winning a title but having Brown and Tatum become Celtic legends? This is a real question. Teams who have never won a title have less leeway in this department.


What's the point of anyone answering said hypothetical that has no purpose because it's not how sports work? 95% of celtics fans would take the title if it was actually guaranteed, but you know it's not so there's no point. I'd also love the list of teams that made similar trades to what you're suggesting with that little leeway and then actually won.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#88 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:19 am

scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Joshyjess wrote:You forgot the other option- They trade Brown and Smart for Harden. Don't win it next year, and then Harden walks, leaving the C's with Tatum, maybe Kemba, and some huge gaping holes. Harden was NOT worth the risk. Plus right now, Brown is producing at a level which makes the trade so much easier to say "no" to.


That's not what the hypothetical is. The question is would you rather have one title with Harden and perhaps have a smaller overall period of success if Harden leaves, retires, or declines rapidly after Ainge gives him an extension. Or would you prefer not winning a title but having Brown and Tatum become Celtic legends? This is a real question. Teams who have never won a title have less leeway in this department.


What's the point of anyone answering said hypothetical that has no purpose because it's not how sports work? 95% of celtics fans would take the title if it was actually guaranteed, but you know it's not so there's no point.


Of course a title is not guaranteed, the question is one of sentimentality. Would a 'contrived' title feel better than being the bridesmaid but never the bride in the Eastern conference but you get to keep the guys you're emotionally attached to?

There were a few Raptors fans who did say they would have preferred landing Giannis in FA and keeping him the rest of his career rather than winning the 2019 title with Kawhi... which wasn't a hypothetical.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#89 » by scottyno » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:23 am

Metallikid wrote:
scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
That's not what the hypothetical is. The question is would you rather have one title with Harden and perhaps have a smaller overall period of success if Harden leaves, retires, or declines rapidly after Ainge gives him an extension. Or would you prefer not winning a title but having Brown and Tatum become Celtic legends? This is a real question. Teams who have never won a title have less leeway in this department.


What's the point of anyone answering said hypothetical that has no purpose because it's not how sports work? 95% of celtics fans would take the title if it was actually guaranteed, but you know it's not so there's no point.


Of course a title is not guaranteed, the question is one of sentimentality. Would a 'contrived' title feel better than being the bridesmaid but never the bride in the Eastern conference but you get to keep the guys you're emotionally attached to?

There were a few Raptors fans who did say they would have preferred landing Giannis in FA and keeping him the rest of his career rather than winning the 2019 title with Kawhi... which wasn't a hypothetical.


Getting giannis the rest of his career was a hypothetical, and that also leaves out the part where you get years of giannis trying to win titles which probably gives you a decent shot of winning for years
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#90 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:26 am

scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
scottyno wrote:
What's the point of anyone answering said hypothetical that has no purpose because it's not how sports work? 95% of celtics fans would take the title if it was actually guaranteed, but you know it's not so there's no point.


Of course a title is not guaranteed, the question is one of sentimentality. Would a 'contrived' title feel better than being the bridesmaid but never the bride in the Eastern conference but you get to keep the guys you're emotionally attached to?

There were a few Raptors fans who did say they would have preferred landing Giannis in FA and keeping him the rest of his career rather than winning the 2019 title with Kawhi... which wasn't a hypothetical.


Getting giannis the rest of his career was a hypothetical, and that also leaves out the part where you get years of giannis trying to win titles which probably gives you a decent shot of winning for years


Some decent shots vs. WE HAD ALREADY WON THE TITLE
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#91 » by _qubik » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:28 am

Tai wrote:
_qubik wrote:Maybe Ainge will make Tatum and Brown all time greats, because they ain't getting help anytime soon :lol:

So, they will need to be enought to win. Don't even start typing that Kemba is a great third star and all. Ainge has missed a lot of opportunities to build a freaking super team in the molds of the KD version of GSW, they had young guys on rookie deals with a lot of talent and even playoff experience, assets and salaries to make big trades. They are good, I dont like the Celtics, dont want them to suceed, but I give them credit, they are good now, but if they had a better GM they could even better now, and for the future too.


On the bolded:

>Literally all-star game last season, supposed to come back in a week at worst
>"Don't even start typing about him"

Read on Twitter


Image

I dunno, maybe wait and see how he looks once back before writing him off? :lol:

And FWIW, I the only player I really wished Danny got and didn't was Paul George, cause he wanted to stay in Boston (supposedly anyway). That said, a "better" GM would have done what? Traded for a guy like Kawhi and AD who had adamantly said they wanted to go to LA and... wait for it....ended up going to LA? Even Paul George after a detour in OKC ended up in LA. And we're out said star AND Brown or Tatum (along with whatever else we gave up)?

I will say, the TPE will be interesting. That's where I'd see fair criticism if Danny doesn't handle that right. But trading for guys who didn't want to be here, especially someone radioactive like Harden? Yeaa I'm good.


Kemba is a small guard, he was decent last season, but man, they can do better with 30m per year. I believe he can return playing to his normal after the injuries, but he is exploitable and I wouldnt like Brown or Tatum losing touches for Kemba. I agree with your takes, its a safe approach, Danny didint give up his young guys and they are already stars, but are they enough to win a title ? Kawhi bolted, but Toronto won. The thing is, with the guys development maybe the you guys dont need another star, dont need to give one of them to have some disgruntled guy. But the roster needs improvement, a good center and some bench pieces, or another starter to move Smart back to the bench. You have Kemba as an asset, picks, some young guys and a huge trade exception. Organic improvement wont cut the talent gap while other teams keep pilling up stars. The safe approach is ok, a lot of teams are turning into real contenders doing this, Celtics, Denver, Sixers, teams that were built through the draft, but even without dealing the stars sometime you need to make riskier moves to upgrade the roster. The Sixers upgraded and retooled nicely even with some head scratching signings past years, now they have cohesive talent without delaing their guys. Ainge can make it happen too if he wants. Otherwise we can see one of Brown and Tatum wanting out for a better situation
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#92 » by scottyno » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:28 am

Metallikid wrote:
scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Of course a title is not guaranteed, the question is one of sentimentality. Would a 'contrived' title feel better than being the bridesmaid but never the bride in the Eastern conference but you get to keep the guys you're emotionally attached to?

There were a few Raptors fans who did say they would have preferred landing Giannis in FA and keeping him the rest of his career rather than winning the 2019 title with Kawhi... which wasn't a hypothetical.


Getting giannis the rest of his career was a hypothetical, and that also leaves out the part where you get years of giannis trying to win titles which probably gives you a decent shot of winning for years


Some decent shots vs. WE HAD ALREADY WON THE TITLE


Great, except that's not at all the hypothetical you just posted.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#93 » by Clemenza » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:28 am

I'd rather have Brown and Tatum than trading for Harden
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#94 » by shi-woo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:34 am

I mean, it's been pretty obvious for years now that Ainge is building around Brown and Tatum. IDK why you people continue to post these nonsense threads.

Kawhii, KD, and AD were his targets, and all three of them turned us down. AD and Kawhii for obvious reasons, KD because him and Kyrie ended up having their own plan.

He signed Hayward and Horford. He traded for Kyrie. It didn't work out because of a freak injury, and a player whos drama is blowing up this message board, get over it guys. Celtics fan certainly have (I lied, green teamers only live in the past).

We're doing the rebuild the right way, Trust the Process. Brown, Smart, Tatum, Time Lord, PP, and Grant. That's the core group of home grown talent moving forward. We will continue to compete until those guys are clearly ready to make a run, and then we move all in.

Gutting you team for players that don't move the needle will do nothing for this team right now, or in the past couple of years, or for the future. We aren't winning a title with a 22 year old as our 2nd option, it just doesn't work like that in the NBA.

Come to us when Ainge is turning down these trades when Brown and Tatum are 26/27 and then we can start the fire Ainge threads together.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#95 » by Danny1616 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:37 am

Ainge keeping Tatum and Brown is looking good actually.

Imagine Ainge gave away Brown for Kawhi.

I don't know if Kyrie, Kawhi and a very young Tatum would have made it out the East.

Kawhi still bolts to LA, Kyrie bolts and Celtics are left with only one star.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#96 » by Metallikid » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:46 am

scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
scottyno wrote:
Getting giannis the rest of his career was a hypothetical, and that also leaves out the part where you get years of giannis trying to win titles which probably gives you a decent shot of winning for years


Some decent shots vs. WE HAD ALREADY WON THE TITLE


Great, except that's not at all the hypothetical you just posted.


That's exactly my hypothetical. It's called pretending. Use your imagination.
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#97 » by dakomish23 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:51 am

Pharmcat wrote:At some point, Ainge needs to be called out for his lack of action to acquire a premiere all star. He has missed out on PG, KL, AD, Harden, CP3, Im running out of fingers to keep it counting.

Ainge problem is he is too emotionally attached to this assets, sometimes you just need to let it go in order to go for the ring. Right now, they are capped out as a ECF round team not having enough stars to move on.

He will be a case study on missed opportunities by a GM.


He has a premier all star in 2021 NBA league MVP Tatum
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#98 » by Perishable517 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:08 am

celtics543 wrote:I guess you can say Ainge missed out on another superstar but so did every other team in the NBA. I think you'd find most Celtics fans weren't in favor of trading for Harden. We're more than happy with Tatum/Brown as the leaders of the team for the next decade.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that this may work for the Nets but with the price they paid it has to almost guarantee a title and I don't think it does. Kudos to them for going all in and giving it a go but I'm glad Ainge didn't move Jaylen Brown and all of our draft picks for James Harden.

Say I'm wearing green goggles but I don't think the Nets are the best team in the East. They'll put up huge offensive numbers but they can't guard anyone.
If I was Boston, I would not have traded Brown and Smart, either. And I agree. I do not believe Harden guarantees a championship, much less a trip to the finals.

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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#99 » by scottyno » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:16 am

Metallikid wrote:
scottyno wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Some decent shots vs. WE HAD ALREADY WON THE TITLE


Great, except that's not at all the hypothetical you just posted.


That's exactly my hypothetical. It's called pretending. Use your imagination.


You guaranteed a boston title with harden vs no chance of ever winning one with tatum and brown

In the other you guaranteed a toronto title with kawhi vs having giannis for the rest of his prime career and maybe winning a title

But yeah, those are exactly the same things
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Re: Ainge misses out on another superstar, overrated GM 

Post#100 » by jdm_dc_fan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:17 am

I’d say 90% of non causal Boston fans didn’t wanna trade for harden. He is a cancer in our eyes. Brown is young, intelligent, respectful 24 year old 2 way wing on a good contract for a long time and will look more and more like a bargain every year. Sometimes not taking short cuts makes a better team.

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