Is KAT an empty stats player?

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Is KAT an empty stars player?

Poll runs till Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:51 am

Yes, empty stats
124
56%
No, just plays in bad organisation/system
98
44%
 
Total votes: 222

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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#21 » by NZB2323 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:14 am

He’s not an empty stats player but he’s also not a superstar. He’s like the Elton Brand of his generation.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#22 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:17 am

Oscar9992 wrote:Is KAT an empty stats player?

Always puts nice numbers but always leads his team into a lottery picks.

Lost to Jimmy's bench crew while Jimmy was in Minnesota.


He's not an empty stats guy, he's an offense-only player at a position where defense is most important. That's damning and lowers his ceiling a great deal, but it's still a very different thing than an Antoine Walker who was literally hurting his team by shooting and sucking at it.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#23 » by AbeVigodaLive » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:18 am

sikma42 wrote:He gets his stats a lot of the way Kevin Love and KG got there stats. They come within the flow of the offense but they are not players that can go and get you buckets or control games on offense. Categorize that however you want.




Are you just trying to be mean to Timberwolves fans with this post?

Think about it... three players over a 15-year-span ripped and ridiculed for great stats on bad teams... possibly the three MOST ripped during that time for that...

... and they're the three best players in Wolves history. Coincidence?
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#24 » by AbeVigodaLive » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:19 am

PharmD wrote:It's not the guy with the +18.7 on/off's fault.



1. The Wolves last three 1st round draft picks, Edwards (#1), Culver (traded up to #6) and Okogie (#20) combined for 7 points in 54 minutes tonight. (They combined for 8 points in 58 minutes last game.)

2. With Towns out the past couple of weeks.. the Wolves were down by 30 points in 4 different games... in the 3rd quarters of those games.

3. Let's start a thread discussing Towns's misgivings.

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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#25 » by Lockdown504090 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 am

sikma42 wrote:He gets his stats a lot of the way Kevin Love and KG got there stats. They come within the flow of the offense but they are not players that can go and get you buckets or control games on offense. Categorize that however you want.

He either needs to get better on the block or on the perimeter. If he could get that iso post ability he could be as good as dirk one day.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#26 » by Midw35t » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:25 am

Lockdown504090 wrote:
sikma42 wrote:He gets his stats a lot of the way Kevin Love and KG got there stats. They come within the flow of the offense but they are not players that can go and get you buckets or control games on offense. Categorize that however you want.

He either needs to get better on the block or on the perimeter. If he could get that iso post ability he could be as good as dirk one day.


I cannot decide if this is complete satire or not. The guy is an instant bucket from everywhere on the floor, and has been forever now.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#27 » by Ritzo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:27 am

He's just in a terrible situation, it's not an empty stats if he can fill up the stat sheet with good efficiency like Giannis. It was proven that he's not the number 1 guy you'd want on your team tho.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#28 » by Tim Kempton » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:35 am

He's not a winner. Never has been. The one time he was paired with a true winner (Jimmy), they made the playoffs. It's telling that Jimmy got sick of his crap and punked him and Wiggins during practice. It's even more telling what the Wolves' record was pre-and-post-Jimmy. An empty stats player can refer to someone who pads stats during blowouts. It can also refer to a player with impressive stats who doesn't contribute towards winning basketball. KAT is exactly that.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#29 » by Lalouie » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:11 am

if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT an empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#30 » by alebaba » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:15 am

What about curry, was he an empty stat guy when Green doesn't play, what about Devin Booker?
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#31 » by Midw35t » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:18 am

Lalouie wrote:if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT and empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer


All decent veteran players, plus Ricky, Gorgui. In a weaker Western Conference. With a seasoned coach in Adelman and then Flip. KaT is not the problem in MN.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#32 » by Lalouie » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:22 am

Midw35t wrote:
Lalouie wrote:if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT and empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer


All decent veteran players, plus Ricky, Gorgui. In a weaker Western Conference. With a seasoned coach in Adelman and then Flip. KaT is not the problem in MN.


so you're saying the love roster and kat roster are equal and love was the problem @minnie
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#33 » by PharmD » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:26 am

Lalouie wrote:if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT an empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer

The 13-14 wolves were good! And one of my favorite teams to watch. Rubio-KMart, Love-Pek. Unfortunately the JJ Barea-led bench killed us every single night. And we had Mbah a Moute shooting 21% standing alone in the corner.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#34 » by PharmD » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:29 am

Lalouie wrote:
Midw35t wrote:
Lalouie wrote:if you call kevin love an empty stat player you damn well better call KAT and empty stat player!!!

love's last year @minnie was a 40win year and minnie didn't get to 40win ever again until they accrued the roster of kat, butler, rose, crawford, gibson, teague, along with wiggins and coached by thibs

love did it with martin, pekovic, and brewer


All decent veteran players, plus Ricky, Gorgui. In a weaker Western Conference. With a seasoned coach in Adelman and then Flip. KaT is not the problem in MN.


so you're saying the love roster and kat roster are equal and love was the problem @minnie

I don't think any minimally-competent speaker of English could interpret the post you quoted the way you did.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#35 » by durden_tyler » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 am

Yes! And thanks for him being an empty stats player, he's always a reliable player in my fantasy leagues. So yeah, he might win teams their fantasy titles but not the real thing ;)
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Re: Is KAT an empty stars player? 

Post#36 » by Rainwater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 am

Winsome Gerbil wrote:As for the answer...I always hate the term "empty stats" for guys caught on bad teams. Kobe Bryant, between winning titles with Phil and Shaq and winning them with Phil and Pau, suddenly became "empty stats" because hey, his team really sucked. In reality he didn't get worse, his team did.

That said, if any modern star got tagged with it, I could see KAT being the guy. Very very skilled, but man does he lack the grit, the grr, the leadership, and of course, the defense.

The thing is, it always bugs me that people who really watch the games continue to watch the scoreboard as some sort of indicator of individual talent. It rarely is. Any single player can play no more than 1/5 of his team's minutes, and that is if he is Wilt and plays 48 min per game. KAT plays 32. So he'd playing maybe about 15% of his team's minutes? And somehow if they win or lose is supposed to be all about him and not the guy's playing the other 85% of the minutes? In fact for years now he's had a good On/Off +/-. Not LeBron good, But his team has been considerably better when he is on the floor. It's just that the rest of the team can't keep that going when he's not.

I think there's plenty of evidence that he is not a transformative superstar, nor a driven fighting winning personality that can set a tone for a whole franchise. But that doesn't make his stats empty. He matters for them. Just not enough.


I could be wrong but I don't remember Kobe ever being called an empty stats guy. Not trying to dump on Kat but Kobe got those terrible Lakers team to the playoffs even though they had no right being their. That is something that Kat hasn't been able to do with the Wolves.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#37 » by righterwriter » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:34 am

Talented guy. The fact that he shoots at an elite level and can kill teams inside is rare. But he doesn't seem to be enough of a leader to elevate his teammates.

To me, that makes him a second banana. Put him on a team with a dominant scoring guard that knows how to steer the team and his value will really come out.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#38 » by Zeitgeister » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:45 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Is KAT an empty stats player?

Always puts nice numbers but always leads his team into a lottery picks.

Lost to Jimmy's bench crew while Jimmy was in Minnesota.


He's not an empty stats guy, he's an offense-only player at a position where defense is most important. That's damning and lowers his ceiling a great deal, but it's still a very different thing than an Antoine Walker who was literally hurting his team by shooting and sucking at it.


This is precisely it. It's always been my concern that while he is a very good offensive player, if you're center isn't anchoring your defense you're probably going to have a lot of problems on that side of the ball as a team.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#39 » by righterwriter » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:04 am

Zeitgeister wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Is KAT an empty stats player?

Always puts nice numbers but always leads his team into a lottery picks.

Lost to Jimmy's bench crew while Jimmy was in Minnesota.


He's not an empty stats guy, he's an offense-only player at a position where defense is most important. That's damning and lowers his ceiling a great deal, but it's still a very different thing than an Antoine Walker who was literally hurting his team by shooting and sucking at it.


This is precisely it. It's always been my concern that while he is a very good offensive player, if you're center isn't anchoring your defense you're probably going to have a lot of problems on that side of the ball as a team.


As explosive an athlete as Edwards is, I think with KAT's woes on defense Wiseman would've been the better pick. Wiseman needs time to develop, of course, but when he does he can be the shot eraser and finisher that allows KAT to play his game.
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Re: Is KAT an empty stats player? 

Post#40 » by GYK » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:20 am

He’s the most efficient scoring big ever.
Absolutely lights out from all 3 levels.
His free agency is going to be a game changer.

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