Randle vs. Porzingis

[Zenzibar]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Stop fkn tripping. You being a 76rs fan, I can see where your shade comes from, which is being from a competitive fanbase.

Keep hating player, we got you in our sights in the next year or two. But let me promise you this, promise you that if we meet in the playoffs, even outmatched, the 76rs better bring it. The Knicks with their defense, will be one of the toughest outs you'll have this year.

Promise you.

[blueNorange]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

[Scalabrine]

Absolutely can't ignore that. It's a huge point.

We've talked about it before, but they are pretty much stuck with what they have now and will have pretty much wasted the years that Doncic was the most underpaid player in the league.

I said when the trade happened that the Knicks may be the winner of the deal simply because they avoided sinking $160m into Porzingis. KP is one of the worst contracts in the league and still has three years left on his contract. It'll be interesting to see where DAL goes over the next few seasons.

Yeah, I mean that was huge. I remember when the injury first happened, that looming extension really had me worried. I really do think that the Knicks were worried about giving him the deal that the Mavs did and that really helped with the blow of losing him.

We didn't get KD/Kyrie but the trade has actually still worked out really well for us. We turned that cap space into Randle (who's better than KP in just about every facet) and Quickley, plus 2 firsts, and we aren't stuck with KP who at this point is looked at as a negative contract after signing the same extension that Booker and KAT signed. Meanwhile, the Mavs are in a pretty tricky situation, with no real clear path to improve their flawed roster.

[zonedefense]

Funny part is that Randle turned into a jump shooter and KP is the better post scorer and inside finisher. Not what I expected.

[Sixerscan]

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Does Randle play a role in making the offense bad or making a terrible offense slightly better? The one guy producing on the team isn't the reason the team is bad at offense.

Randle having to be the top option plays a role in making the offense bad. Not his fault or anything, they’re making the most of what they’ve got, but he’s just under qualified for that role.

[blueNorange]

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Does Randle play a role in making the offense bad or making a terrible offense slightly better? The one guy producing on the team isn't the reason the team is bad at offense.

Randle having to be the top option plays a role in making the offense bad. Not his fault or anything, they’re making the most of what they’ve got, but he’s just under qualified for that role.

ever wonder that playing with elfrid payton affects the starters?

payton doesn't create, can't play off ball, and clogs the paint.

[HeartBreakKid]

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

[Sixerscan]

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Stop fkn tripping. You being a 76rs fan, I can see where your shade comes from, which is being from a competitive fanbase.

Keep hating player, we got you in our sights in the next year or two. But let me promise you this, promise you that if we meet in the playoffs, even outmatched, the 76rs better bring it. The Knicks with their defense, will be one of the toughest outs you'll have this year.

Promise you.

I agree the Knicks will be an annoying team to play in the playoffs because of their defense. The reasons they may be “outmatched” (your word) are their limited offense (in part because randle has too big of a role) and they’re not gonna have the benefit in a high stakes playoff game that they have during the regular season of Thibs playing his best players significantly more minutes than the other team.

If you don’t think fans of other teams are capable of giving unbiased assessments of Knicks players, suggest you stay on the Knicks board. Wouldn’t shock me if the Knicks got better over the next few years and contended in the East. Guessing if that were to happen Julius Randle would not be playing his current role though, much like Lou Williams isn’t currently starring for the clippers and D’Angelo Russell isn’t headlining the Nets.

[NYKnickerbocker]

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

well it would be pretty damn hard to be an effective lead guy on a team without a reliable jumpshot

You expecting him to keep the same efficiency levels from when he was a pelican playing with AD and having a awesome lead guard like Jrue while also doing most of his damage as finisher is extreme lol

[HeartBreakKid]

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

well it would be pretty damn hard to be an effective lead guy on a team without a reliable jumpshot

You expecting him to keep the same efficiency levels from when he was a pelican playing with AD and having a awesome lead guard like Jrue while also doing most of his damage as finisher is extreme lol

Anthony Davis didn't play much that season. The Pelicans were sitting him because they knew he wanted to go to LA.

Who said that he shouldn't have a jumpshot? But citing that someone has way lower TS because they take more perimeter shots isn't exactly a great defense for whether that player has become overrated or not. It's entirely possible that he's just not good enough to get into the paint and is settling which is not a good thing.



I'm not agreeing that he is overrated, I'm just saying that's not a great rebuttal.

[Sixerscan]

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

well it would be pretty damn hard to be an effective lead guy on a team without a reliable jumpshot

You expecting him to keep the same efficiency levels from when he was a pelican playing with AD and having a awesome lead guard like Jrue while also doing most of his damage as finisher is extreme lol

Well, if he actually had this huge improvement as a basketball player people claim he’s had, yes I would expect him to do something like that, if not more.

[NYKnickerbocker]

How is that a good thing?

well it would be pretty damn hard to be an effective lead guy on a team without a reliable jumpshot

You expecting him to keep the same efficiency levels from when he was a pelican playing with AD and having a awesome lead guard like Jrue while also doing most of his damage as finisher is extreme lol

Well, if he actually had this huge improvement as a basketball player people claim he’s had, yes I would expect him to do something like that, if not more.

and I guess that’s the difference between just looking at basketball reference and watching a guy play

[blueNorange]

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

huh?

post players have higher ts% than jumpshooters, unless you think randle hitting 41% from three not good?

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Does Randle play a role in making the offense bad or making a terrible offense slightly better? The one guy producing on the team isn't the reason the team is bad at offense.

Randle having to be the top option plays a role in making the offense bad. Not his fault or anything, they’re making the most of what they’ve got, but he’s just under qualified for that role.

Randle having to be a top option sides with the making a terrible offense slightly better rather than Randle making the offense bad. Making the offense bad implies there are better alternatives / decisions to be made on the court . Randle is much more maximizing the Knicks offense than hindering it.

Guy is averaging 6 assist a game. Saying Randle is a huge factor in Knicks offense being bad is just way off base.

[Zenzibar]

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Stop fkn tripping. You being a 76rs fan, I can see where your shade comes from, which is being from a competitive fanbase.

Keep hating player, we got you in our sights in the next year or two. But let me promise you this, promise you that if we meet in the playoffs, even outmatched, the 76rs better bring it. The Knicks with their defense, will be one of the toughest outs you'll have this year.

Promise you.

I agree the Knicks will be an annoying team to play in the playoffs because of their defense. The reasons they may be “outmatched” (your word) are their limited offense (in part because randle has too big of a role) and they’re not gonna have the benefit in a high stakes playoff game that they have during the regular season of Thibs playing his best players significantly more minutes than the other team.

If you don’t think fans of other teams are capable of giving unbiased assessments of Knicks players, suggest you stay on the Knicks board. Wouldn’t shock me if the Knicks got better over the next few years and contended in the East. Guessing if that were to happen Julius Randle would not be playing his current role though, much like Lou Williams isn’t currently starring for the clippers and D’Angelo Russell isn’t headlining the Nets.

Respect.

[HeartBreakKid]

i'm proud you're able to google stats, check those stats again and you'd find that randle with the pelicans didn't take as many perimeter shots as he does now.

and also, your team has ben simmons -- now he's overrated.

How is that a good thing?

huh?

post players have higher ts% than jumpshooters, unless you think randle hitting 41% from three not good?

I mean yes, but if he has become much less efficient (he is only at the league average) then he should play more in the paint. If he cannot then that would be a con against him not a pro.

Basically, you've explained why his TS has fallen off but you haven't explained how that makes him a more effective player. Stretching the defense does have value, but given the Knicks do not have guys who can take advantage of that it would make more sense for him to play more in the paint - unless he simply is incapable of doing so anymore.

[blueNorange]

How is that a good thing?

huh?

post players have higher ts% than jumpshooters, unless you think randle hitting 41% from three not good?

I mean yes, but if he has become much less efficient (he is only at the league average) then he should play more in the paint. If he cannot then that would be a con against him not a pro.

Basically, you've explained why his TS has fallen off but you haven't explained how that makes him a more effective player. Stretching the defense does have value, but given the Knicks do not have guys who can take advantage of that it would make more sense for him to play more in the paint - unless he simply is incapable of doing so anymore.

a .570 ts% is still very, very good.

calm down big buy.

[Sixerscan]

Does Randle play a role in making the offense bad or making a terrible offense slightly better? The one guy producing on the team isn't the reason the team is bad at offense.

Randle having to be the top option plays a role in making the offense bad. Not his fault or anything, they’re making the most of what they’ve got, but he’s just under qualified for that role.

Randle having to be a top option sides with the making a terrible offense slightly better rather than Randle making the offense bad. Making the offense bad implies there are better alternatives / decisions to be made on the court . Randle is much more maximizing the Knicks offense than hindering it.

Guy is averaging 6 assist a game. Saying Randle is a huge factor in Knicks offense being bad is just way off base.

Right, which is why I clarified that the role he has to play is a huge factor in why their offense is bad. The role he has to play (and the number of minutes he plays) is also why he averages the points and assists he does. If they had a real point guard and he wasn’t playing like 10-15% more minutes per game than other players his numbers would be less impressive but it wouldn’t make him a worse player.

Clearly he is better at basketball than like Obi Toppin but when we’re talking about him as MIP, an all star, maybe all nba you’re comparing him to the rest of the league.

[leolozon]

Read on Twitter

KP was traded for Randle!!! Wow, I didn't even knew the Mavs had Randle on their roster. Yeah, that was definitely a mistake to trade Randle for KP.

The tweet never says KP was traded for Randle.

It's just criticizing Porzingis, and part of that criticism is that he got outplayed by Randle. Then it asks if the Mavs won the trade for KP. It never says Randle was a part of that trade.

Then bringing up Randle makes no sense. If KP was traded for DeAndre Jordan straight up, would it mean it's a bad trade because Randle played better than him?

The only way the post makes sense is if you assume Randle was traded for KP.

KP was traded for Jordan, Matthews, DSJ and 2 1st. None of them are with the Knicks. So far the Knicks still got nothing from that trade. And firsts not in the lottery aren't worth much on average.

As for this thread, Randle did play great in that last game, but he played bad in the last game against Dallas and, so far, he doesn't really have a better year than KP. I'm pretty down on KP too.

Knicks fans are always getting ahead of themselves. It always reminds me of the thread in the summer of 2018 asking if the Knicks would trade Robinson and Knox for Doncic. And 90% of the answers were saying they would probably not trade 1 of them for Doncic.

Randle could well be better than KP, but if the Knicks still had KP, Knicks fans would say the opposite right now.

[bearadonisdna]

Randle having to be the top option plays a role in making the offense bad. Not his fault or anything, they’re making the most of what they’ve got, but he’s just under qualified for that role.

Randle having to be a top option sides with the making a terrible offense slightly better rather than Randle making the offense bad. Making the offense bad implies there are better alternatives / decisions to be made on the court . Randle is much more maximizing the Knicks offense than hindering it.

Guy is averaging 6 assist a game. Saying Randle is a huge factor in Knicks offense being bad is just way off base.

Right, which is why I clarified that the role he has to play is a huge factor in why their offense is bad. The role he has to play (and the number of minutes he plays) is also why he averages the points and assists he does. If they had a real point guard and he wasn’t playing like 10-15% more minutes per game than other players his numbers would be less impressive but it wouldn’t make him a worse player.

Clearly he is better at basketball than like Obi Toppin but when we’re talking about him as MIP, an all star, maybe all nba you’re comparing him to the rest of the league.

randle role is improving a worse offense, his role isnt what makes the offense bad.
You are trying to be a soothsayer , the logic is circular. his role in the offense is is not the reason they are bad, its bad without his role and his role only amplifies the offenses effectiveness.