Randle vs. Porzingis

Moderators: jamaalstar21, infinite11285, BombsquadSammy, ken6199, Domejandro, bwgood77, Dirk, zimpy27, KingDavid

User avatar
TheGreenArrow
RealGM
Posts: 10,977
And1: 9,785
Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#401 » by TheGreenArrow » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 am

HabsAndDubs wrote:Who cares if the Knicks aren’t a good team. They’re been one of the most embarrassing professional franchises in North American sports for the last decade, and within a year they’ve been able to largely repair their reputation and build a team that might actually be somewhere players would want to play and who might be able to build something sustainable going into the future.

A lot of that has to do with Randle playing at a quasi MVP level- he’s in a completely different tier than KP, who if the Knicks still had, they would not have signed Randle, who was the consolation prize of consolation prizes in two years ago’s FA period.

Then winning a playoff series would be one of the most exciting things that could happen in the playoffs, but if they don’t, they’ve got more than enough to build off of for next year. Besides, either they eventually sign JR to a max deal, or the jump he’s made with Thibs coaching is enough to attract some stars to take their shot in NY.


This!!!

All of this folks!!!!!!
NewYorkOrNoWhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
DrPampiloni
Sophomore
Posts: 150
And1: 152
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#402 » by DrPampiloni » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:09 am

I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...
User avatar
DaGawd
RealGM
Posts: 19,625
And1: 18,935
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
Location: Queens, NY
     

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#403 » by DaGawd » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:13 am

DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

This can’t be a serious post.. Randle missed one full season... his rookie season.. after a freak break of his leg in his very first game. Since he’s been pretty durable. Randle is a better player than Porzingis in pretty much every aspect of basketball except maybe rim protection.. even tho Porzingis is kinda overrated in that area nowadays himself
BaF Roster
Washington Wizards
Kyrie Irving/Ricky Rubio/Tyrell Terry
Buddy Hield/ Grayson Allen/Justin Jackson
Kelly Oubre/Jabari Parker/Reggie Bullock
Aaron Gordon/Eric Paschall
Zach Collins/Kelly Olynyk/Jahlil Okafor
User avatar
SmoothLefty21
Starter
Posts: 2,059
And1: 2,210
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#404 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:19 am

DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,372
And1: 12,174
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#405 » by Chanel Bomber » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:35 am

DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

It's a combination of factors, I don't think one can look up boxscore numbers without taking role and context into consideration.

First of all, Randle's a much better teammate and leader than KP. We can dig deeper if you want to, but I think KP's diva tendencies are pretty much common knowledge by now. Him calling out Carlisle in the media is a perfect example of that. Randle is a much more grounded and humble individual.

Randle's assists are not just inflated by usage, that's incredibly reductive. Randle's a much better passer and playmaker than KP. It's not close. As a Dallas fan, you must've realized by now that KP's not a good passer (although he's improved in that area), let alone a playmaker. Randle's a legit point forward. He makes plays for his teammates, he can make the extra pass, he's starting to see plays before they happen and his passes are crisp and accurate.

Randle's playing a different role defensively than KP so it's hard (and perhaps unfair) to compare them on that end of the floor. KP's obviously a better rim protector, but he struggles defending in space. Randle has become a good defender at the 4 who can actually defend in space and who isn't tasked to protect the rim anyway. In his role, he's been more reliable than KP has been in his. He's also much better on the boards.

Randle's a much better isolation scorer, who attracts double teams and forces opposing defenses to collapse and leave guys open. Obviously, he's not as efficient and as impactful as the upper echelon players like Kawhi or Durant, but his impact goes far deeper than just his points. KP has 0 gravity an isolation scorer because he's inefficient and defenses don't necessarily (over)react, which means he can't open gaps in the defense. He does have gravity as a pick-and-pop player, but he's not someone you can run your offense through, because he's inefficient in isolation, and because he's not a playmaker. Randle is actually carrying that burden for the Knicks. Not to mention, getting your points as the first option vs the second option has a natural impact on scoring efficiency. For instance, KP averages 7.1 catch-and-shoot FGA per game, vs 4.7 for Randle. Offensively, Randle's role is closer to Luka's than KPs.

Randle missed a season because of a torn ACL. KP has had many injuries, and these injuries have taken a toll on his body. He's not the same athlete he was 3 years ago, and his game relied heavily on athleticism. By the way, by the time he was named an All-Star in the East, I thought he was vastly overrated. He really was a fringe All-Star at best.
Image
DrPampiloni
Sophomore
Posts: 150
And1: 152
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#406 » by DrPampiloni » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:39 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.


Factually incorrect. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage

So what he leads the Knicks in three categories, he averages 37 minutes per game and considerably higher usage. Luka is surely a great passer, but he's also an ISO machine, there are literally stretches of six-seven minutes where KP does not touch the ball in the offense. KP was never the second coming, but JR is fool's gold.
User avatar
stuporman
RealGM
Posts: 22,599
And1: 8,011
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Location: optimistic skeptical realist

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#407 » by stuporman » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:55 pm

Wow, this thread sure has some doozies in it.

The Randle of this season isn't the Randle of previous seasons, he has taken another step and leveled up in ways few thought he could or would. Even with that I don't know that he can be the best player on a title team and the Knicks need another elite scorer because they work too hard to get points.

KP has just leveled off and doesn't seem like he's got the mentality to take the step that the other has, KP puts the eunuch in unicorn. Although playing next to Luka he doesn't need to be the alpha to help the Mavs win but he needs to stay healthy enough to play at a high level and stay on the floor.
Image?
User avatar
blueNorange
Knicks Forum Contrarian
Posts: 48,194
And1: 13,804
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
Location: mgmt: caa

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#408 » by blueNorange » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:59 pm

DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.
LOL Y U MAD THO?
Image
mitchell robinson has blocked zion williamson 3 times as of 7/6/19.
User avatar
blueNorange
Knicks Forum Contrarian
Posts: 48,194
And1: 13,804
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
Location: mgmt: caa

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#409 » by blueNorange » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:01 pm

DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

you're right, you don't see.
LOL Y U MAD THO?
Image
mitchell robinson has blocked zion williamson 3 times as of 7/6/19.
DrPampiloni
Sophomore
Posts: 150
And1: 152
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#410 » by DrPampiloni » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:27 pm

blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?

blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

you're right, you don't see.


G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
37 37 1162 8.9 18.7 .473 2.6 7.2 .359 6.3 11.5 .544 3.2 3.7 .850 2.3 8.5 10.8 1.8 0.5 1.8 1.6 3.0 23.5
57 57 37.4 8.4 18.3 .461 2.1 5.2 .405 6.3 13.1 .483 4.8 5.9 .802 1.3 9.2 10.5 6.1 1.0 0.3 3.5 3.2 23.7

I don't know man...
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 50,663
And1: 56,707
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#411 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:55 am

Read on Twitter
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
KnicksGadfly
General Manager
Posts: 8,874
And1: 5,291
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Location: Rent Free
   

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#412 » by KnicksGadfly » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:03 am

DrPampiloni wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.


Factually incorrect. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage

So what he leads the Knicks in three categories, he averages 37 minutes per game and considerably higher usage. Luka is surely a great passer, but he's also an ISO machine, there are literally stretches of six-seven minutes where KP does not touch the ball in the offense. KP was never the second coming, but JR is fool's gold.


KP's stats are inflated by playing with Luka (same with THJ for that matter). Shat, Randle would feast if he had someone like Luka.
Commander of the Dallas Tank!

The mission: to end false narratives about the Knicks

Example of Fake Narratives:
-The Melo era should be celebrated
-Phil Jackson was a good GM
User avatar
Im Coming Home
RealGM
Posts: 17,891
And1: 7,364
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: Bay Shore, NY
       

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#413 » by Im Coming Home » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:07 am

Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.
Image
User avatar
robillionaire
RealGM
Posts: 18,958
And1: 21,967
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
Location: Asheville
         

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#414 » by robillionaire » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:09 am

DrPampiloni wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?



KP averages 1.5 ast to 1.7 turnovers for his career the man simply cannot pass in an era where talented big like randle and jokic and adebayo can pass the ball
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 50,663
And1: 56,707
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#415 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:21 am

urgal wrote:
RoxSteady wrote:
urgal wrote:What people don't seem to realize is that Randle is essentially, even stat-wise, the exact same mediocre player he's always been.

He just has more points because he's playing a ridiculous 38 minutes a game because Thibs likes to run guys into the ground.

What exactly has changed? His 3pt % has already been plummeting.


It's only 12 games but passing and defensive efficiency are up significantly:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

Exactly my point. It has only been 12 games. Maybe we shouldn't treat him like an All-Star just yeat when we have 6 years of sample size to work with showing the oppoosite, mainly that he's a mediocre player.

your post aged well
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 50,663
And1: 56,707
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#416 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:22 am

urgal wrote:Tank commander vs. Unicorn.

Hard decision.

another horrible take
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 50,663
And1: 56,707
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#417 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:24 am

urgal wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
urgal wrote:What I still don't get about Knicks fans in this thread: if Randle is your guy and if you don't need Porzingis and if you won that trade, why are you guys still so obsessed with him and trying to prove everybody wrong, reposting some random tweets out of nowhere that talk Porzingis down and stuff.

If everythings perfect in the Mekka why don't just enjoy your own team then?

You guys come across like some crazy and insecure ex-girlfriend that just can't get over the splitup.

You sound big mad that your boy is ass and holding back the Mavs :lol: enjoy that horrible contract and thanks for the picks

:lol: Thanks for proving my point

Even throw in THJ plays better than Randle. Enjoy Dennis Smith and have fun picking the next Kevin Knox.

tim hardaway better than randle. yikes
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
DroseReturnChi
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,844
And1: 1,232
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
       

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#418 » by DroseReturnChi » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:29 am

Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.
God told Derrick to rise, so Derrick Rose.
User avatar
NYKnickerbocker
RealGM
Posts: 11,346
And1: 6,755
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
Location: Queens
       

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#419 » by NYKnickerbocker » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:53 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.
ehhhh maybe 0.1 times the talent of Randle

And that’s comes from him being taller
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 50,663
And1: 56,707
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#420 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:55 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.

kp has better physical tools but randle is way more talented. randle basically plays like a true unicorn
Cavs Nation
PG: Jamal Murray/ Schroder
SG: Zach Lavine/Dunn
SF: Jayson Tatum/Hart
PF: Bam Adebayo/Tate
C: Deandre Ayton/ Randle


It's like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it

Return to The General Board