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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 am
by TheGreenArrow
HabsAndDubs wrote:Who cares if the Knicks aren’t a good team. They’re been one of the most embarrassing professional franchises in North American sports for the last decade, and within a year they’ve been able to largely repair their reputation and build a team that might actually be somewhere players would want to play and who might be able to build something sustainable going into the future.

A lot of that has to do with Randle playing at a quasi MVP level- he’s in a completely different tier than KP, who if the Knicks still had, they would not have signed Randle, who was the consolation prize of consolation prizes in two years ago’s FA period.

Then winning a playoff series would be one of the most exciting things that could happen in the playoffs, but if they don’t, they’ve got more than enough to build off of for next year. Besides, either they eventually sign JR to a max deal, or the jump he’s made with Thibs coaching is enough to attract some stars to take their shot in NY.


This!!!

All of this folks!!!!!!

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:09 am
by DrPampiloni
I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:13 am
by DaGawd
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

This can’t be a serious post.. Randle missed one full season... his rookie season.. after a freak break of his leg in his very first game. Since he’s been pretty durable. Randle is a better player than Porzingis in pretty much every aspect of basketball except maybe rim protection.. even tho Porzingis is kinda overrated in that area nowadays himself

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:19 am
by SmoothLefty21
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:35 am
by Chanel Bomber
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

It's a combination of factors, I don't think one can look up boxscore numbers without taking role and context into consideration.

First of all, Randle's a much better teammate and leader than KP. We can dig deeper if you want to, but I think KP's diva tendencies are pretty much common knowledge by now. Him calling out Carlisle in the media is a perfect example of that. Randle is a much more grounded and humble individual.

Randle's assists are not just inflated by usage, that's incredibly reductive. Randle's a much better passer and playmaker than KP. It's not close. As a Dallas fan, you must've realized by now that KP's not a good passer (although he's improved in that area), let alone a playmaker. Randle's a legit point forward. He makes plays for his teammates, he can make the extra pass, he's starting to see plays before they happen and his passes are crisp and accurate.

Randle's playing a different role defensively than KP so it's hard (and perhaps unfair) to compare them on that end of the floor. KP's obviously a better rim protector, but he struggles defending in space. Randle has become a good defender at the 4 who can actually defend in space and who isn't tasked to protect the rim anyway. In his role, he's been more reliable than KP has been in his. He's also much better on the boards.

Randle's a much better isolation scorer, who attracts double teams and forces opposing defenses to collapse and leave guys open. Obviously, he's not as efficient and as impactful as the upper echelon players like Kawhi or Durant, but his impact goes far deeper than just his points. KP has 0 gravity an isolation scorer because he's inefficient and defenses don't necessarily (over)react, which means he can't open gaps in the defense. He does have gravity as a pick-and-pop player, but he's not someone you can run your offense through, because he's inefficient in isolation, and because he's not a playmaker. Randle is actually carrying that burden for the Knicks. Not to mention, getting your points as the first option vs the second option has a natural impact on scoring efficiency. For instance, KP averages 7.1 catch-and-shoot FGA per game, vs 4.7 for Randle. Offensively, Randle's role is closer to Luka's than KPs.

Randle missed a season because of a torn ACL. KP has had many injuries, and these injuries have taken a toll on his body. He's not the same athlete he was 3 years ago, and his game relied heavily on athleticism. By the way, by the time he was named an All-Star in the East, I thought he was vastly overrated. He really was a fringe All-Star at best.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:39 am
by DrPampiloni
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.


Factually incorrect. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage

So what he leads the Knicks in three categories, he averages 37 minutes per game and considerably higher usage. Luka is surely a great passer, but he's also an ISO machine, there are literally stretches of six-seven minutes where KP does not touch the ball in the offense. KP was never the second coming, but JR is fool's gold.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:55 pm
by stuporman
Wow, this thread sure has some doozies in it.

The Randle of this season isn't the Randle of previous seasons, he has taken another step and leveled up in ways few thought he could or would. Even with that I don't know that he can be the best player on a title team and the Knicks need another elite scorer because they work too hard to get points.

KP has just leveled off and doesn't seem like he's got the mentality to take the step that the other has, KP puts the eunuch in unicorn. Although playing next to Luka he doesn't need to be the alpha to help the Mavs win but he needs to stay healthy enough to play at a high level and stay on the floor.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:59 pm
by blueNorange
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:01 pm
by blueNorange
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

you're right, you don't see.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:27 pm
by DrPampiloni
blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?

blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

you're right, you don't see.


G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
37 37 1162 8.9 18.7 .473 2.6 7.2 .359 6.3 11.5 .544 3.2 3.7 .850 2.3 8.5 10.8 1.8 0.5 1.8 1.6 3.0 23.5
57 57 37.4 8.4 18.3 .461 2.1 5.2 .405 6.3 13.1 .483 4.8 5.9 .802 1.3 9.2 10.5 6.1 1.0 0.3 3.5 3.2 23.7

I don't know man...

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:55 am
by 3toheadmelo
Read on Twitter

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:03 am
by KnicksGadfly
DrPampiloni wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage.


Randle is one of four players who leads his team in points, rebounds, and assists. He averages more than of all three than KP on a higher TS% as his team's #1 option. KP has arguably the best playmaker in the league to help make his life easier.


Factually incorrect. https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/ts-percentage

So what he leads the Knicks in three categories, he averages 37 minutes per game and considerably higher usage. Luka is surely a great passer, but he's also an ISO machine, there are literally stretches of six-seven minutes where KP does not touch the ball in the offense. KP was never the second coming, but JR is fool's gold.


KP's stats are inflated by playing with Luka (same with THJ for that matter). Shat, Randle would feast if he had someone like Luka.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:07 am
by Im Coming Home
Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:09 am
by robillionaire
DrPampiloni wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?



KP averages 1.5 ast to 1.7 turnovers for his career the man simply cannot pass in an era where talented big like randle and jokic and adebayo can pass the ball

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:21 am
by 3toheadmelo
urgal wrote:
RoxSteady wrote:
urgal wrote:What people don't seem to realize is that Randle is essentially, even stat-wise, the exact same mediocre player he's always been.

He just has more points because he's playing a ridiculous 38 minutes a game because Thibs likes to run guys into the ground.

What exactly has changed? His 3pt % has already been plummeting.


It's only 12 games but passing and defensive efficiency are up significantly:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

Exactly my point. It has only been 12 games. Maybe we shouldn't treat him like an All-Star just yeat when we have 6 years of sample size to work with showing the oppoosite, mainly that he's a mediocre player.

your post aged well

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:22 am
by 3toheadmelo
urgal wrote:Tank commander vs. Unicorn.

Hard decision.

another horrible take

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:24 am
by 3toheadmelo
urgal wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
urgal wrote:What I still don't get about Knicks fans in this thread: if Randle is your guy and if you don't need Porzingis and if you won that trade, why are you guys still so obsessed with him and trying to prove everybody wrong, reposting some random tweets out of nowhere that talk Porzingis down and stuff.

If everythings perfect in the Mekka why don't just enjoy your own team then?

You guys come across like some crazy and insecure ex-girlfriend that just can't get over the splitup.

You sound big mad that your boy is ass and holding back the Mavs :lol: enjoy that horrible contract and thanks for the picks

:lol: Thanks for proving my point

Even throw in THJ plays better than Randle. Enjoy Dennis Smith and have fun picking the next Kevin Knox.

tim hardaway better than randle. yikes

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:29 am
by DroseReturnChi
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:53 am
by NYKnickerbocker
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.
ehhhh maybe 0.1 times the talent of Randle

And that’s comes from him being taller

Re: Randle vs. Porzingis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:55 am
by 3toheadmelo
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.

kp has better physical tools but randle is way more talented. randle basically plays like a true unicorn