Randle vs. Porzingis

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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#421 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:58 am

DrPampiloni wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?

blueNorange wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

you're right, you don't see.


G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
37 37 1162 8.9 18.7 .473 2.6 7.2 .359 6.3 11.5 .544 3.2 3.7 .850 2.3 8.5 10.8 1.8 0.5 1.8 1.6 3.0 23.5
57 57 37.4 8.4 18.3 .461 2.1 5.2 .405 6.3 13.1 .483 4.8 5.9 .802 1.3 9.2 10.5 6.1 1.0 0.3 3.5 3.2 23.7

I don't know man...


What I see here is stats of a player that’s played a full season looking better than that of one that’s played half of it.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#422 » by Angryfatboy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:14 am

This is an actual debate in these parts?

Knicks success hang in the hands of Randle
Mavs success hang in the hands of doncic

Porzingis is A high quality second option (when healthy), not somebody I view leading a team anywhere as a main #1 option.

Randle is the better overall talent imo but both sides should be satisfied with what they have
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#423 » by God Squad » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:18 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:Its not even close at this point.

Randle is a more all around player, sets his teammates up, better man-to-man defender AND doesn't rely on others to set him up, he's a better 3pt shooter than KP too.

He's also the #1 option while putting up better stats than KP who is the #2 option at best on his team.


still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.

kp has better physical tools but randle is way more talented. randle basically plays like a true unicorn

They'll be a lot of players with Randles archetype. Nothing unicorn about Julius.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#424 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:22 am

God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:
still think KP has 10x the talent randle has. he is like rose 2.0. tells how hard randle worked to outceiling.

kp has better physical tools but randle is way more talented. randle basically plays like a true unicorn

They'll be a lot of players with Randles archetype. Nothing unicorn about Julius.

a lot of players with randle's archetype..? :lol:

the only players to average 20/10/5 with 40% from 3 in nba history is Larry Bird, Jokic and Randle if he keeps it up
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#425 » by God Squad » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:26 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:kp has better physical tools but randle is way more talented. randle basically plays like a true unicorn

They'll be a lot of players with Randles archetype. Nothing unicorn about Julius.

a lot of players with randle's archetype..? :lol:

the only players to average 20/10/5 with 40% from 3 in nba history is Larry Bird, Jokic and Randle if he keeps it up

The three point percentage is key for this cherry picked stat. Feel free to think Julius is a unicorn.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#426 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:32 am

God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
God Squad wrote:They'll be a lot of players with Randles archetype. Nothing unicorn about Julius.

a lot of players with randle's archetype..? :lol:

the only players to average 20/10/5 with 40% from 3 in nba history is Larry Bird, Jokic and Randle if he keeps it up

The three point percentage is key for this cherry picked stat. Feel free to think Julius is a unicorn.

you're in denial. feel free to think that there's a lot of players that can do what randle is doing :lol:
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#427 » by God Squad » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:35 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:a lot of players with randle's archetype..? :lol:

the only players to average 20/10/5 with 40% from 3 in nba history is Larry Bird, Jokic and Randle if he keeps it up

The three point percentage is key for this cherry picked stat. Feel free to think Julius is a unicorn.

you're in denial. feel free to think that there's a lot of players that can do what randle is doing :lol:
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#428 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 am

God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
God Squad wrote:The three point percentage is key for this cherry picked stat. Feel free to think Julius is a unicorn.

you're in denial. feel free to think that there's a lot of players that can do what randle is doing :lol:
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Yes. I'm in denial of the greatness that is Julius Randle. Okay.

why don't you go name 15 big men that can do what randle is doing. should be easy since there's a lot of big men like him according to you.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#429 » by NYKnickerbocker » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 am

God Squad wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
God Squad wrote:The three point percentage is key for this cherry picked stat. Feel free to think Julius is a unicorn.

you're in denial. feel free to think that there's a lot of players that can do what randle is doing :lol:
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Yes. I'm in denial of the greatness that is Julius Randle. Okay.

My man all you gotta say is there aren’t a bunch of Julius Randle archetypes out there lol
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#430 » by sikma42 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:55 am

I never thought he would develop into this good of a shooter. His jumper was so broken at Kentucky and early on in LA. Good for him, hard worker and seems like a nice guy
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#431 » by MoochieNorris » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:05 am

julius should be in the mvp discussion. not saying he should win. not even saying he's a top 5 candidate but it's not out of the realm of possibility that someone would vote for him if the season ended today. he better get all nba. what an insane season. we all wrote him off too.
keep doing you, julius. keep finding random gyms in cities at 4am. keep telling mamba stories to the kids in the locker room.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#432 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:13 am

One is a lead option leading a team to playoff birth
and one is good second option that only plays half the time hmmm tough question here.
Randles on a very nice contract for next year too
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#433 » by Pablo Escobar » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:20 am

They're both guys who can't be the #1 option to win a championship. So the question is can Randle still be effective as a 2nd or 3rd guy? Porzingis played well in the playoffs last year before getting injured and he has Luka so he'll be his pick n pop guy and it'll make things easier for him.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#434 » by DCasey91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:27 am

Also Zingis’s injury turned Lukas first run at it (he was ready to go last year) into a no contest, can’t account for injuries of course but surely you knew beforehand what you were getting.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#435 » by ITGM » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:30 am

One's a candidate for MVP and the other is a candidate for "Load Management." Put some respect on Julius Randle's name!
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#436 » by homecourtloss » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:39 am

ITGM wrote:One's a candidate for MVP and the other is a candidate for "Load Management." Put some respect on Julius Randle's name!


No, he’s not. Great year, great improvement, but the NBA is too loaded with talent. Every player who’s been regular season MVP since DRose has basically had a historicish season.
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#437 » by BIGJ1ER » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:43 am

ITGM wrote:One's a candidate for MVP and the other is a candidate for "Load Management." Put some respect on Julius Randle's name!


Randle is playing well (I'm still skeptical of him being a 40% three point shooter moving forward, but I'd like to be pleasantly surprised) but he is not an MVP candidate. He's not a top 15 player.

I'm a knicks fan but c'mon, we don't need extreme hyperbole every time someone has a good season.

Since I don't think Julius is a first option on a contender type offensive hub, I'd be curious to see how he'd scale as a second option. With his combination of passing and current shooting efficiency I think he could actually be quite portable, but we'd need to see it in action first
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#438 » by Ito » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:32 am

BIGJ1ER wrote:
ITGM wrote:One's a candidate for MVP and the other is a candidate for "Load Management." Put some respect on Julius Randle's name!


Randle is playing well (I'm still skeptical of him being a 40% three point shooter moving forward, but I'd like to be pleasantly surprised) but he is not an MVP candidate. He's not a top 15 player.

I'm a knicks fan but c'mon, we don't need extreme hyperbole every time someone has a good season.

Since I don't think Julius is a first option on a contender type offensive hub, I'd be curious to see how he'd scale as a second option. With his combination of passing and current shooting efficiency I think he could actually be quite portable, but we'd need to see it in action first


How is Randle not an mvp candidate? The Knicks could even catch up to the bucks and finish 3rd in the East
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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#439 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:30 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:I don't see how his numbers are better than Porzingis' numbers. If anything he is less efficient. His assists are inflated by usage. You can argue about salary, but JR is gonna get payed big-time this summer, and he will suddenly become equally overpaid. Health is always an unknown, for both actually. JR has also missed a full season if I recall correctly... Also guys here pretending that KP was not named an All-Star in his last (playing) season with the Knicks...

It's a combination of factors, I don't think one can look up boxscore numbers without taking role and context into consideration.

First of all, Randle's a much better teammate and leader than KP. We can dig deeper if you want to, but I think KP's diva tendencies are pretty much common knowledge by now. Him calling out Carlisle in the media is a perfect example of that. Randle is a much more grounded and humble individual.

Randle's assists are not just inflated by usage, that's incredibly reductive. Randle's a much better passer and playmaker than KP. It's not close. As a Dallas fan, you must've realized by now that KP's not a good passer (although he's improved in that area), let alone a playmaker. Randle's a legit point forward. He makes plays for his teammates, he can make the extra pass, he's starting to see plays before they happen and his passes are crisp and accurate.

Randle's playing a different role defensively than KP so it's hard (and perhaps unfair) to compare them on that end of the floor. KP's obviously a better rim protector, but he struggles defending in space. Randle has become a good defender at the 4 who can actually defend in space and who isn't tasked to protect the rim anyway. In his role, he's been more reliable than KP has been in his. He's also much better on the boards.

Randle's a much better isolation scorer, who attracts double teams and forces opposing defenses to collapse and leave guys open. Obviously, he's not as efficient and as impactful as the upper echelon players like Kawhi or Durant, but his impact goes far deeper than just his points. KP has 0 gravity an isolation scorer because he's inefficient and defenses don't necessarily (over)react, which means he can't open gaps in the defense. He does have gravity as a pick-and-pop player, but he's not someone you can run your offense through, because he's inefficient in isolation, and because he's not a playmaker. Randle is actually carrying that burden for the Knicks. Not to mention, getting your points as the first option vs the second option has a natural impact on scoring efficiency. For instance, KP averages 7.1 catch-and-shoot FGA per game, vs 4.7 for Randle. Offensively, Randle's role is closer to Luka's than KPs.

Randle missed a season because of a torn ACL. KP has had many injuries, and these injuries have taken a toll on his body. He's not the same athlete he was 3 years ago, and his game relied heavily on athleticism. By the way, by the time he was named an All-Star in the East, I thought he was vastly overrated. He really was a fringe All-Star at best.

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Re: Randle vs. Porzingis 

Post#440 » by robillionaire » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:10 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
blueNorange wrote:so using your logic, luka's assists are inflated by his usage.


Well they are, just as his turnovers. Still manages to have an assist to TO ration higher than two (unlike Randle) but I'd rather have him force less stuff, your point?

blueNorange wrote:you're right, you don't see.


G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
37 37 1162 8.9 18.7 .473 2.6 7.2 .359 6.3 11.5 .544 3.2 3.7 .850 2.3 8.5 10.8 1.8 0.5 1.8 1.6 3.0 23.5
57 57 37.4 8.4 18.3 .461 2.1 5.2 .405 6.3 13.1 .483 4.8 5.9 .802 1.3 9.2 10.5 6.1 1.0 0.3 3.5 3.2 23.7

I don't know man...


What I see here is stats of a player that’s played a full season looking better than that of one that’s played half of it.


also note he used per 36 stats to try to make it more presentable when dude can't play 36 minutes a night because he needs to be load managed

also Re: "Randle's assists inflated by his usage rate" Randle is 25th in usage rate which is lower than a lot of players he's performed better than, and KP is 35th. KP usage rate isn't even that far off from randle and he still doesn't get assists, either because he's a selfish black hole or because he doesn't have the talent to make a pass or both, probably both

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