NBA MVP Discussion 20/21

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Who is the MVP so far?

Poll ended at Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:40 pm

LeBron James
78
23%
Kevin Durant
4
1%
Joel Embiid
87
26%
Luka Doncic
15
4%
Nikola Jokic
68
20%
Giannis
19
6%
Stephen Curry
34
10%
Damian Lillard
15
4%
Other - Who?
18
5%
 
Total votes: 338

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1141 » by God Squad » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:07 am

Beta ray bill wrote:
Forte IV wrote:Im genuinely offended Kawhi isnt on the poll

Yeah man, I'm very offended also. He may not be in the current top 3 (embiid, jokic, lebron for me right now) but he is definitely right there in top 5 or at least top 7. It seems OP is Kawhi hater smh. How I hope Kawhi wins MVP to make this thread look foolish.

Don't worry, He's not and you wont lol.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1142 » by lebron3-14-3 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:09 am

My list after tonight

Embiid
Jokic
Lebron
Dame
Leonard
Gobert
Mitchell
Giannis
Harden
Curry
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1143 » by Big J » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:53 pm

You can’t tank the first quarter of the season and get MVP that year. It doesn’t matter how good you are the rest of the way. Voters will hold that against harden. He’ll have to wait until next year.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1144 » by Krodis » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:39 pm

Harden ‘tanked’ like 4 games at most. Nowhere near a quarter of the season.


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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1145 » by Impuniti » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:58 pm

Harden tanked his Rockets career to move to another team, he's automatically dq'd from this year.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1146 » by Krodis » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:00 pm

Personally, making Tillman Fertitta really mad probably deserves its own award. Morey and Harden can share it.


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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1147 » by The_Hater » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:02 pm

This might be the best MVP race in recent memory. I can’t ever remember so many candidates having a legit argument.

And one of those candidates isn’t even James Harden, who has been top 2-3 for years.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1148 » by scrabbarista » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:06 pm

As of the morning of February 22nd, with movement in the last five days.

----------------------------------------------------

1. 22.1 - Jokic, DEN
2. 20.0 - Embiid, PHI +1
3. 18.3 - Leonard, LAC -1
4. 17.9 - James, LAL
5. 17.7 - Gobert, UTA

6. 17.6 - Antetokounmpo, MIL +1
7. 17.4 - Lillard, POR -1
8. 15.2 - Conley, UTA
9. 14.8 - Harden, BKN (+4, I think)
10. 14.4 - George, LAC (+2, I think)

11. 14.0 - Curry, GSW (-2)
12. 13.5 - Davis, LAL (-1, I think)
13. 13.3 - Doncic, DAL (-3, his team didn't play)
14. 13.2 - Randle, NYK (+ (at least) 2)
15. 13.1 - Durant, BKN (-1, I think)

16. 13.0 - Simmons, PHI
17. 12.9 - Irving, BKN (-2, I think)
18. 12.9 - Boucher, TOR
19. 12.7 - VanVleet, TOR
20. 12.5 - Young, ATL

21. 12.0 - Middleton, MIL
22. 12.0 - Paul, PHO
23. 11.2 - Williamson, NOP
24. 11.0 - Adebayo, MIA
25. 11.0 - Tatum, BOS

26. 10.2 - Harrell, LAL
27. 9.1 - DeRozan, SAS
28. 8.7 - Allen, CLE
29. 8.3 - Vucevic, ORL
30. 8.0 - Hayward, CHO

31. 7.6 - LaVine, CHI
32. 7.4 - Anderson, MEM
33. 7.0 - Beal, WAS
34. 6.5 - Sabonis, IND

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's only been five days since I last posted the charts, but, as it feels like the conversation has picked up steam with Davis going down and Embiid having a big game, I decided to post this morning. I likely won't post results again until next week. I also decided, for novelty's and curiosity's sake, to post 34 names this week instead of just the usual 10. In the future, I'll probably post 10 or, at most, 15.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Embiid cuts into much of the gap between him and Jokic, but it remains substantial. Perhaps more significantly, Embiid passes Leonard and puts a stranglehold on second place.

Things are starting to bunch up in 4th-7th, with LeBron slipping a bit, Gobert maintaining, and Giannis and Lillard making big pushes. The four spots are separated by just half a point. Leonard, in 3rd, isn't far ahead of them, either.

I recently posted the same formula in the rookie forum, and Immanuel Quickley was the leader. He was at around a 6 or a 7. There is a lot of volatility with rookies, though. I think Quickley is a clear third in the RoY race right now, behind Haliburton and Ball, in some order.

DISCLAIMER:

1) This formula is not designed to determine who is a "better player." It is an MVP formula, period. It is designed to choose an MVP, and - to a lesser extent - to identify the top five MVP candidates. It does that job well: it matches 10 of the last 12 winners, with the two exceptions being 2011 and 2017 - probably the two most controversial MVP's over that span.

2) These are not the top 34 players, even per the formula. Rather, they are the 34 players that I identified this week. Every week, I eyeball the standings and the stats in order to identify a group of candidates. Brogdon, Bridges, Holmes, and Brown were replaced this week by Boucher, LaVine, Anderson, Tatum. Next week, it could be a different four or five guys. I try to spread things out a bit among the teams; while there's no doubt that players like Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell would be in the top 34, they aren't listed this week. Next week, they might be. The focus of the formula is on the very top of of the list, so it's really just academic once you get past the real contenders for the award.

*Lastly, note that the number of games a team has played can be an important factor this early in the season. More games equals more opportunity to provide value to your team. Even the difference between 31 games (PHI, LAL) and 28 games (DAL) is significant. Needless to say, this should even out by season's end.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1149 » by jokeboy86 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:07 pm

Packbuckman wrote:
Big J wrote:Are we sure Giannis is out of his this thing yet?


Giannis free throws look so much better now his whole shooting form looks way better. If he can continue this for the rest of this season and in playoffs with Holiday coming back soon after being out so far 8 gms with health protocols I like this team so much better.


Unfortunately none of this matters because Giannis will not win MVP this year no matter if his stats start to get better and the Bucks clinch the East(and possibly best league record). Russell, Chamberlain, and Bird are the only players to ever win MVP 3x in a row. Here's who hasn't:

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Malone(Karl & Moses)
Duncan
Curry

Knowing the voters probably realize this do you think they honestly want to face the intense blowback and scrutiny of giving Giannis the MVP this year especially since he's never been to the Finals either. Its a regular season award and each year is different than the last so I wish history didn't matter but it does.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1150 » by scrabbarista » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:08 pm

Krodis wrote:Harden ‘tanked’ like 4 games at most. Nowhere near a quarter of the season.


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He pretty much tanked 9 games. I'm not one who thinks it should disqualify him, though. Basically, his poor play over that stretch is enough of a "punishment," as the stats captured it perfectly.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1151 » by kuclas » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:12 pm

If Steve Nash can win mvp over kobe. And Phoenix didn’t even have the best record.

Than just give the mvp to Rudy gobert or Donovan Mitchell.

It’s a weird mvp year. Give it to one of the best guys on the best team.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1152 » by scrabbarista » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:18 pm

kuclas wrote:If Steve Nash can win mvp over kobe. And Phoenix didn’t even have the best record.

Than just give the mvp to Rudy gobert or Donovan Mitchell.

It’s a weird mvp year. Give it to one of the best guys on the best team.


Dirk should've won in '05, LeBron in '06.

As to Gobert, I agree that it's a weird year, but not that weird. I think Jokic and Embiid are the clear top two right now, but we're not even halfway through the season, and there are another five or so guys who are (theoretically, at least) within striking distance.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1153 » by vancity604 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:46 pm

The_Hater wrote:This might be the best MVP race in recent memory. I can’t ever remember so many candidates having a legit argument.

And one of those candidates isn’t even James Harden, who has been top 2-3 for years.

this is the worst mvp race in recent memory...no one has stepped up and dominated.. every candidate this year has a major flaw or two. As of right now no one deserves the MVP award.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1154 » by The_Hater » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 pm

vancity604 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:This might be the best MVP race in recent memory. I can’t ever remember so many candidates having a legit argument.

And one of those candidates isn’t even James Harden, who has been top 2-3 for years.

this is the worst mvp race in recent memory...no one has stepped up and dominated.. every candidate this year has a major flaw or two. As of right now no one deserves the MVP award.


You and I have very different views of what makes a good race, and mine doesn’t include watching the award get decided in December which happens a majority of the time. To me, that’s boring. This is fun.

As for nobody deserving the award? I see about 7-8 players who deserve the award. Players putting up MVP type numbers on winning trams. Maybe you’re just a glass half empty type?
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I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1155 » by eminence » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm

Jokic/LeBron/Embiid/Kawhi still my top 4 I'd say. Gobert 5th. I'd give Lillard 6th. Giannis in there for level of play, but yeah, no chance. Think that'd be everyone worth mentioning right now.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1156 » by vancity604 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm

The_Hater wrote:
vancity604 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:This might be the best MVP race in recent memory. I can’t ever remember so many candidates having a legit argument.

And one of those candidates isn’t even James Harden, who has been top 2-3 for years.

this is the worst mvp race in recent memory...no one has stepped up and dominated.. every candidate this year has a major flaw or two. As of right now no one deserves the MVP award.


You and I have very different views of what makes a good race, and mine doesn’t include watching the award get decided in December which happens a majority of the time. To me, that’s boring. This is fun.

As for nobody deserving the award? I see about 7-8 players who deserve the award. Players putting up MVP type numbers on winning trams. Maybe you’re just a glass half empty type?


No, I just like to see excellence. LeBrons production continues to slide as he ages yet he is amongst the favorites to win it. Never would have happened over the past few years. This race reminds me of the 1999 MVP race... where no one stepped up and had a truly great season and Karl Malone won it by default even though he was way past his prime and production had fallen off.
The best races are when 2-3 guys step up and all have truly great seasons.. like in the 80s with Jordan, Bird and Magic. Or early 90s with Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon. Early 2000s Duncan, Shaq, Garnett. Or some recent races like KD vs LeBron, Harden vs Westbrook Or Harden vs Giannis.

There is a difference between a close race and a great race.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1157 » by The_Hater » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:18 pm

vancity604 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
vancity604 wrote:this is the worst mvp race in recent memory...no one has stepped up and dominated.. every candidate this year has a major flaw or two. As of right now no one deserves the MVP award.


You and I have very different views of what makes a good race, and mine doesn’t include watching the award get decided in December which happens a majority of the time. To me, that’s boring. This is fun.

As for nobody deserving the award? I see about 7-8 players who deserve the award. Players putting up MVP type numbers on winning trams. Maybe you’re just a glass half empty type?


No, I just like to see excellence. LeBrons production continues to slide as he ages yet he is amongst the favorites to win it. Never would have happened over the past few years. This race reminds me of the 1999 MVP race... where no one stepped up and had a truly great season and Karl Malone won it by default even though he was way past his prime and production had fallen off.
The best races are when 2-3 guys step up and all have truly great seasons.. like in the 80s with Jordan, Bird and Magic. Or early 90s with Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon. Early 2000s Duncan, Shaq, Garnett. Or some recent races like KD vs LeBron, Harden vs Westbrook Or Harden vs Giannis.


Excellence is relative. It’s not like their are so many candidates because nobody is having a great season, it’s because so many players are having great seasons.

Both Jokic and Embiid are having phenomenal statistical years by any reasonable measure. Jokic is being docked because Denver isn’t having a great season and I’m not sure why Embiid is being docked. People look at Bron and conclude that his numbers are down this seasons when it’s actually his minutes that are down. His per minute numbers are right in line with last season and his career averages.

Anyways, I like that we’re seeing a tight race with lots of options for once. When was the last time that happened? The MVP award has been decided by XMas probably 75% of the time these last 20 years. What’s the fun in that?
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Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1158 » by Boardbreaker » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:54 pm

This feels like a season where we’ll have co-mvps
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1159 » by Packbuckman » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:59 pm

jokeboy86 wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:
Big J wrote:Are we sure Giannis is out of his this thing yet?


Giannis free throws look so much better now his whole shooting form looks way better. If he can continue this for the rest of this season and in playoffs with Holiday coming back soon after being out so far 8 gms with health protocols I like this team so much better.


Unfortunately none of this matters because Giannis will not win MVP this year no matter if his stats start to get better and the Bucks clinch the East(and possibly best league record). Russell, Chamberlain, and Bird are the only players to ever win MVP 3x in a row. Here's who hasn't:

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Malone(Karl & Moses)
Duncan
Curry

Knowing the voters probably realize this do you think they honestly want to face the intense blowback and scrutiny of giving Giannis the MVP this year especially since he's never been to the Finals either. Its a regular season award and each year is different than the last so I wish history didn't matter but it does.



Well for one Jordan never was to the finals at age 24-25 or even 26 which Giannis just turned in December.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 

Post#1160 » by Ballerhogger » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:07 pm

Right now it’s looking like it’s Joel Embiid mvp to lose . The lakers are going slide little more without ad or Dennis ... if he puts up the close same numbers and their record is top 3 he’s the mvp

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