6th Man & MIP Discussion

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Who do you currently think is more worthy of the Most Improved Player award?

Jerami Grant
75
77%
Christian Wood
23
23%
 
Total votes: 98

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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#61 » by dautjazz » Wed Feb 3, 2021 1:39 pm

The_Hater wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
spanishninja wrote:
why obviously?


I mean how is going to compete with Christian Wood or Jerami Grant for MIP?


I would argue that Bridges has shown normal improvement for a 3rd year player, but not even close to MIP level improvement.


Yeah, his improvement looks even less impressive if you look at his PER36 numbers. I could probably find 20 other players a 25% improvement in one category. He really hasn't made any strives elsewhere, atleast not statistically.
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How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#62 » by The_Hater » Wed Feb 3, 2021 2:25 pm

dautjazz wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
I mean how is going to compete with Christian Wood or Jerami Grant for MIP?


I would argue that Bridges has shown normal improvement for a 3rd year player, but not even close to MIP level improvement.


Yeah, his improvement looks even less impressive if you look at his PER36 numbers. I could probably find 20 other players a 25% improvement in one category. He really hasn't made any strives elsewhere, atleast not statistically.


I have a similar problem with Wood though. He didn't play much last season until Drummond was traded, then he broke out as an efficient 20/10 guy for the rest of the season. And this year he's just carried on at that level. I would argue that he didn't improve over last year as much as he's just playing minutes from the beginning of the season so his counting stats look better. His per minute stats and his advanced stats have been pretty much the same.

He shouldn't be held to the same standard as Grant who's improvement in all areas has shocked me about as much as any player the past 10 years. the MIP award isn't even close right now IMO.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#63 » by Snakebites » Wed Feb 3, 2021 9:00 pm

Assuming current trends hold MIP is a 3 man race between Brown, Grant and Wood.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#64 » by phanman » Wed Feb 3, 2021 9:09 pm

I've got Jerami Grant with a huge lead to win that MIP award. After spending his OKC and DEN stints as a energy-defensive big picking his spots to score and hit the open 3, his transition to an efficient #1 option in Detroit is shocking. Especially since he plays alongside a front court of Griffin who is struggling immensely and Plumlee.

23.7pts(+11.7), 5.8reb(+2.3), 2.9ast(+1.7) on a 58.85%TS or 45/40/87 split in 35.9mpg as a plus +17.2 on the court.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#65 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Feb 3, 2021 9:14 pm

The_Hater wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
I would argue that Bridges has shown normal improvement for a 3rd year player, but not even close to MIP level improvement.


Yeah, his improvement looks even less impressive if you look at his PER36 numbers. I could probably find 20 other players a 25% improvement in one category. He really hasn't made any strives elsewhere, atleast not statistically.


I have a similar problem with Wood though. He didn't play much last season until Drummond was traded, then he broke out as an efficient 20/10 guy for the rest of the season. And this year he's just carried on at that level. I would argue that he didn't improve over last year as much as he's just playing minutes from the beginning of the season so his counting stats look better. His per minute stats and his advanced stats have been pretty much the same.

He shouldn't be held to the same standard as Grant who's improvement in all areas has shocked me about as much as any player the past 10 years. the MIP award isn't even close right now IMO.


You could see Grant having these skills if you watched Denver all the time last season, he just couldn't play this scoring role when Jokic and Murray PnR is the Denver system. Grant kinda didn't mesh well offensively because he wasn't a natural cutter/screen runner, but I'd always be amazed by him finding a variety of solutions to score when the ball ended up in his hands to play isolation late in the shot clock.

Having that in mind, I think he is among a lot of MiP candidates and winners over the years that have been in the mix to win it because of the role change and rise in usage. It is super rare that somebody actually improves a couple of basketball skills to such a degree over an offseason to suddenly be a MiP candidate because of that improvement, it is mostly about role change and usage rise, and there's nothing wrong with that because not every player can adapt so quickly to that role change and rise in usage. Kudos to Wood, Grant, Brown.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#66 » by The_Hater » Wed Feb 3, 2021 9:40 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
Yeah, his improvement looks even less impressive if you look at his PER36 numbers. I could probably find 20 other players a 25% improvement in one category. He really hasn't made any strives elsewhere, atleast not statistically.


I have a similar problem with Wood though. He didn't play much last season until Drummond was traded, then he broke out as an efficient 20/10 guy for the rest of the season. And this year he's just carried on at that level. I would argue that he didn't improve over last year as much as he's just playing minutes from the beginning of the season so his counting stats look better. His per minute stats and his advanced stats have been pretty much the same.

He shouldn't be held to the same standard as Grant who's improvement in all areas has shocked me about as much as any player the past 10 years. the MIP award isn't even close right now IMO.


You could see Grant having these skills if you watched Denver all the time last season, he just couldn't play this scoring role when Jokic and Murray PnR is the Denver system. Grant kinda didn't mesh well offensively because he wasn't a natural cutter/screen runner, but I'd always be amazed by him finding a variety of solutions to score when the ball ended up in his hands to play isolation late in the shot clock.

Having that in mind, I think he is among a lot of MiP candidates and winners over the years that have been in the mix to win it because of the role change and rise in usage. It is super rare that somebody actually improves a couple of basketball skills to such a degree over an offseason to suddenly be a MiP candidate because of that improvement, it is mostly about role change and usage rise, and there's nothing wrong with that because not every player can adapt so quickly to that role change and rise in usage. Kudos to Wood, Grant, Brown.


That’s funny, because pretty much every single Denver fan on this board didn’t think much of Grant, called him overrated and limited and didn’t think losing him in free agency was a big deal at all. I didn’t even see non Denver fans who thought he was capable of this. Until now. So this is new. Revisionist history perhaps? You want to be the one guy who said ‘I knew it!’

Bet you don’t have any posts from the off season along these lines....
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Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#67 » by FinnTheHuman » Wed Feb 3, 2021 10:10 pm

The_Hater wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
I have a similar problem with Wood though. He didn't play much last season until Drummond was traded, then he broke out as an efficient 20/10 guy for the rest of the season. And this year he's just carried on at that level. I would argue that he didn't improve over last year as much as he's just playing minutes from the beginning of the season so his counting stats look better. His per minute stats and his advanced stats have been pretty much the same.

He shouldn't be held to the same standard as Grant who's improvement in all areas has shocked me about as much as any player the past 10 years. the MIP award isn't even close right now IMO.


You could see Grant having these skills if you watched Denver all the time last season, he just couldn't play this scoring role when Jokic and Murray PnR is the Denver system. Grant kinda didn't mesh well offensively because he wasn't a natural cutter/screen runner, but I'd always be amazed by him finding a variety of solutions to score when the ball ended up in his hands to play isolation late in the shot clock.

Having that in mind, I think he is among a lot of MiP candidates and winners over the years that have been in the mix to win it because of the role change and rise in usage. It is super rare that somebody actually improves a couple of basketball skills to such a degree over an offseason to suddenly be a MiP candidate because of that improvement, it is mostly about role change and usage rise, and there's nothing wrong with that because not every player can adapt so quickly to that role change and rise in usage. Kudos to Wood, Grant, Brown.


That’s funny, because pretty much every single Denver fan on this board didn’t think much of Grant, called him overrated and limited and didn’t think losing him in free agency was a big deal at all. I didn’t even see non Denver fans who thought he was capable of this. Until now. So this is new. Revisionist history perhaps? You want to be the one guy who said ‘I knew it!’

Bet you don’t have any posts from the off season along these lines....


I mean you don't have to listen to me, you can just youtube the highlights and google his efficiency in the 2019/2020 season. Look at this highlight clip for example, you can find a lot of plays where he creates for himself off the dribble, be it drives, midrange, 3's, you can see the fluidity and the talent to be one of the primary scorers:

And you'd probably find at least a couple of posts by me pointing out Grant's amazing plays in the bubble, I just don't want to bother digging through my post history. What I've always thought was that his defense was overrated even tho he's a good defender, and that his offense was heavily underrated.

There was just no way to utilize his offensive skills in Denver when their best tool is Jokic/Murray pick n roll and Jokic post-ups, and you've had MPJ for some time now rightfully demanding more shots because of his efficiency and talent, and then a lot of other guys like Will Barton and Monta Morris can generate a lot of offense.

edit: and yeah, Detroit wouldn't offer him 20mil per season if he didn't show these signs of offensive talent, you don't give the non-elite 3 and D guys 20 mil per year. There's a reason the Nuggets also offered him 20mil to stay and allowed him to go, the Nuggets FO knew he had this in him on a team that could give him more space so they didn't want to suffocate him, and then Detroit FO also knew he had this potential, and then he also knew he had this potential because he demanded that money and demanded the 20+ shots from game one this season. You can't seriously believe only Nuggets, Detroit and him were aware of this reality, some fans who paid attention had to notice too.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#68 » by Roger Murdock » Thu Feb 4, 2021 3:35 am

If it werent for Grant I think there'd be like 10 legit MIP candidates but hes just doing such a good job. Hard to argue anyone else.


Want to give a shoutout to Darius Garland who was a really bad player as a rookie (in terrible circumstances) but has really looked good this year and has tons of potential.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#69 » by Shaka_Zulu » Thu Feb 4, 2021 1:25 pm

We have clearly a runaway MIP candidate in Grant. But I doubt you guys watch Timberwolves games (a tip, dont :D), so you might have missed what a huge help and consistently high energy scoring threat Malik Beasley has been. Taken his game to another level.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#70 » by ryguy613 » Thu Feb 4, 2021 6:39 pm

Stribor wrote:MIP - Ingram
6th - zubac


lol, what?!
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#71 » by ryguy613 » Thu Feb 4, 2021 6:43 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:so far JC (Clarkson) is a lock for 6th man

I can’t beleive this has happend after all these years . He definelty improved since his laker days


I liked Clarkson then too, but he was asked to do a lot for a team without a lot of talent... plus he was still learning how to play. he always had the potential to be this good
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#72 » by Stribor » Thu Feb 4, 2021 7:03 pm

ryguy613 wrote:
Stribor wrote:MIP - Ingram
6th - zubac


lol, what?!


joke :)
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#73 » by ryguy613 » Thu Feb 4, 2021 7:12 pm

Stribor wrote:
ryguy613 wrote:
Stribor wrote:MIP - Ingram
6th - zubac


lol, what?!


joke :)


haha. well it worked. i laughed :lol:

Can't be too sure these days with all the internet takes out there. ive heard crazier than that from people trying to be serious
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#74 » by Stribor » Thu Feb 4, 2021 7:22 pm

ryguy613 wrote:
Stribor wrote:
ryguy613 wrote:
lol, what?!


joke :)


haha. well it worked. i laughed :lol:

Can't be too sure these days with all the internet takes out there. ive heard crazier than that from people trying to be serious


Did not want it to be to obvious :)
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#75 » by Beethoven » Thu Feb 4, 2021 11:07 pm

how bout let's give it to Caruso
Stay humble
Don't assume anything
Play hard
Win the championship

Kobe Bryant forever
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#76 » by MINDKCUF » Thu Feb 4, 2021 11:22 pm

MIP = chritian wood.
6th man = clarkson, jarret allen if he counts
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#77 » by Jedzz » Fri Feb 5, 2021 8:16 am

phanman wrote:I've got Jerami Grant with a huge lead to win that MIP award. After spending his OKC and DEN stints as a energy-defensive big picking his spots to score and hit the open 3, his transition to an efficient #1 option in Detroit is shocking. Especially since he plays alongside a front court of Griffin who is struggling immensely and Plumlee.

23.7pts(+11.7), 5.8reb(+2.3), 2.9ast(+1.7) on a 58.85%TS or 45/40/87 split in 35.9mpg as a plus +17.2 on the court.


How about Malik Beasley then as well. From bench fodder scorer off 20 min/g in Denver to starting role with Timberwolves.

20.1ppg(+9.1), 5reb(+2.3), 2.2ast(+0) on a 57.3% TS or 46/38/87 split in 31.7mpg and 16fga/g. Looks like Grant as a slight edge but it's close and Beasley has been heating up lately.

big games like some of these...
67/50/100 for 29 pts in 31 mins
56/44/100 for 20 pts in 30 mins
63/60/100 for 25 pts in 38 mins on 10/16 FG, 3/5 3FG, 2/2 FT, 7 rb, 5 ast, 1 st, 2 bl against his old Denver team
62/50/100 for 21 pts in 26 mins
50/50/100 for 24 pts in 35 mins

Or incomplete games like...
56/64/0 for 29pts in 40 mins on 11/20 FG and 7-11 3FG Because the refs don't seem to want to give him much of any foul shots. I think he's averaging two FT shots a game and probably averaging four non-calls a game.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#78 » by Jedzz » Fri Feb 5, 2021 8:28 am

ryguy613 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:so far JC (Clarkson) is a lock for 6th man

I can’t beleive this has happend after all these years . He definelty improved since his laker days


I liked Clarkson then too, but he was asked to do a lot for a team without a lot of talent... plus he was still learning how to play. he always had the potential to be this good


He's been impressive.
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#79 » by Up-And-Coming » Fri Feb 5, 2021 10:04 am

phanman wrote:I've got Jerami Grant with a huge lead to win that MIP award. After spending his OKC and DEN stints as a energy-defensive big picking his spots to score and hit the open 3, his transition to an efficient #1 option in Detroit is shocking. Especially since he plays alongside a front court of Griffin who is struggling immensely and Plumlee.

23.7pts(+11.7), 5.8reb(+2.3), 2.9ast(+1.7) on a 58.85%TS or 45/40/87 split in 35.9mpg as a plus +17.2 on the court.


Grant’s kinda like the new Siakam
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Re: 6th Man & MIP Discussion 

Post#80 » by Liam_Gallagher » Fri Feb 5, 2021 7:10 pm

Pistons could’ve had both MIP candidates lol.

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