is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii

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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#21 » by HayKee » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:28 am

BoogieTime wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:He's a bust. He was overpicked by at least 5-6 spots because the other top picks were refusing to meet with the Kings and Bagley was publicly saying he wanted to be a King. Which is why the guy who ran that draft no longer has that job with the team.

It was a bad pick, and he's done nothing in coming on 3 years to show any growth. Bigs who won't defend and can't space have no value and its made worse by being overdrafted so he makes big money for a rookie.

If a team offers an expiring and a 2nd they should take it as an addition by subtraction move. Maybe he eventually figures it out, but the Kings are starting to put some pieces into place and shouldn't be wasting more time with this guy.

I get fans just look at age and draft spot and think just give him time, but he's only got one more rookie year left and again at a big number so there is no value there. Smart franchises are willing to cut their losses. Fans hold on to the bitter end--as sadly do poorly run franchises and then he has a 12 game stretch late next year of 20/10 so they give him 4/$100M thinking he's arrived and now you've really hamstrung the franchise.


biased nonsense from someone who doesn’t watch him

Do you know, or have any clue he shoots near 40% from 3?

Luka met and had dinner with Vlade/Vivek in person and never stated he wouldn’t play for the kings

Terrible post

He’s 21 with a lot of natural talent. No, the kings have no need to spend 11 mil differently next year

At no point did you address the crux of his post which is his defense. He's been absolutely abysmal defensively at the 5 this year which really hurts his value moving forward. The near 40% from 3 is nice but the volume is still fairly low so I'd be more inclined to wait and see before declaring him a shooter, especially given his historical 3 point percentage.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#22 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:29 am

JohnWillow wrote:Unfortunately I agree with Texas Chuck, it's just so damn dissapointing. But even with all that said, I'm still holding out hope that he atleast can stay healthy for once all season and be an ok 3rd or 4th option for playoff team, because he has improved his corner three a lot this year which was a good sign to me.

Just need to finally cut ties with Luke Walton and hope that Bagley SR finally stfu.

We have our backcourt for the future, now we finally need to blow it up and let McNair start from the beginning (trade Buddy, Barnes, CoJo, Bjelica).


“Bust” means he won’t be a player, not that he can still be a 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team

Your agreeing with someone who thinks the kings should move him for a 2nd
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#23 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:30 am

BoogieTime wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:He's a bust. He was overpicked by at least 5-6 spots because the other top picks were refusing to meet with the Kings and Bagley was publicly saying he wanted to be a King. Which is why the guy who ran that draft no longer has that job with the team.

It was a bad pick, and he's done nothing in coming on 3 years to show any growth. Bigs who won't defend and can't space have no value and its made worse by being overdrafted so he makes big money for a rookie.

If a team offers an expiring and a 2nd they should take it as an addition by subtraction move. Maybe he eventually figures it out, but the Kings are starting to put some pieces into place and shouldn't be wasting more time with this guy.

I get fans just look at age and draft spot and think just give him time, but he's only got one more rookie year left and again at a big number so there is no value there. Smart franchises are willing to cut their losses. Fans hold on to the bitter end--as sadly do poorly run franchises and then he has a 12 game stretch late next year of 20/10 so they give him 4/$100M thinking he's arrived and now you've really hamstrung the franchise.

I won't go as far as to say that the Kings need to trade him, but one thing people often forget is that no player develops in a vacuum. The development of one player impacts the development of players around him. You play a big who doesn't space the floor or protect the rim for the sake of his development? Then you're hurting the development of Fox and Haliburton by setting them up to fail.


He spaces the floor fine for his position and age and has tremendous athleticism to eventually be a plus on defense

Eventually, but not now. He has a 118.6 defensive rating, third worse among rotation players on your team. Maybe he will improve, but he's not a good defender today, and it hurts the Kings every time he's on the floor. His lack of defense offsets (partly at least) the positive impact that Fox and Haliburton bring. Which goes back to my original point, the development of young players doesn't happen in a vacuum. Playing Bagley puts Fox and Haliburton in a position where they're more likely to lose games than if they were playing with a league average player at his position. He's holding them back.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#24 » by shotsquatch » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:31 am

BoogieTime wrote:That has nothing to do with the term “bust” man.

Bust means he won’t be a player at all

Look, I know it's frustrating. It's been 15 years since the Kings had a winning season. You guys missed out on arguably two generational players in Luka and Trae, and ended up with an injury prone big who can't play defense. I feel for you.

But these excuses you're making aren't rational, and they're not a good look. It's hard to admit, but I think it may be in the Kings best interest to put Bagley on the trade block and get some value for him while he still has any left.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#25 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:32 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:I won't go as far as to say that the Kings need to trade him, but one thing people often forget is that no player develops in a vacuum. The development of one player impacts the development of players around him. You play a big who doesn't space the floor or protect the rim for the sake of his development? Then you're hurting the development of Fox and Haliburton by setting them up to fail.


He spaces the floor fine for his position and age and has tremendous athleticism to eventually be a plus on defense

Eventually, but not now. He has a 118.6 defensive rating, third worse among rotation players on your team. Maybe he will improve, but he's not a good defender today, and it hurts the Kings every time he's on the floor. His lack of defense offsets (partly at least) the positive impact that Fox and Haliburton bring. Which goes back to my original point, the development of young players doesn't happen in a vacuum. Playing Bagley puts Fox and Haliburton in a position where they're more likely to lose games than if they were playing with a league average player at his position. He's holding them back.


And the team should be about draft positioning this and next year
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#26 » by 360windmill » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:33 am

We should act like Bagley in his sophomore season right now (reclassified a year early in H.S and missed his real sophomore season). It will take him time but I think he will come into his own as a scoring forward with below average defense.


IMO he will eventually end up being what Julius Randle is now and Randle is hardly a bust. Not close to Luka but that comparison has ended anyways..
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#27 » by jordanwilliams6 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:34 am

What constitutes a bust? I still think he becomes a solid 20/10 big in the league. There's not too many of those in the league.

How much he impacts winning in the long term is yet to be determined.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#28 » by shotsquatch » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:38 am

360windmill wrote:We should act like Bagley in his sophomore season right now (reclassified a year early in H.S and missed his real sophomore season). It will take him time but I think he will come into his own as a scoring forward with below average defense.


IMO he will eventually end up being what Julius Randle is now and Randle is hardly a bust. Not close to Luka but that comparison has ended anyways..

I think Bagley projects to be a Jeff Green type. A power forward who can get you some offense in a limited role.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#29 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 am

BoogieTime wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
He spaces the floor fine for his position and age and has tremendous athleticism to eventually be a plus on defense

Eventually, but not now. He has a 118.6 defensive rating, third worse among rotation players on your team. Maybe he will improve, but he's not a good defender today, and it hurts the Kings every time he's on the floor. His lack of defense offsets (partly at least) the positive impact that Fox and Haliburton bring. Which goes back to my original point, the development of young players doesn't happen in a vacuum. Playing Bagley puts Fox and Haliburton in a position where they're more likely to lose games than if they were playing with a league average player at his position. He's holding them back.


And the team should be about draft positioning this and next year

He still impacts Fox and Haliburton negatively.

You guys should be fine on the back of those two alone long-term regardless.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#30 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 am

HayKee wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:He's a bust. He was overpicked by at least 5-6 spots because the other top picks were refusing to meet with the Kings and Bagley was publicly saying he wanted to be a King. Which is why the guy who ran that draft no longer has that job with the team.

It was a bad pick, and he's done nothing in coming on 3 years to show any growth. Bigs who won't defend and can't space have no value and its made worse by being overdrafted so he makes big money for a rookie.

If a team offers an expiring and a 2nd they should take it as an addition by subtraction move. Maybe he eventually figures it out, but the Kings are starting to put some pieces into place and shouldn't be wasting more time with this guy.

I get fans just look at age and draft spot and think just give him time, but he's only got one more rookie year left and again at a big number so there is no value there. Smart franchises are willing to cut their losses. Fans hold on to the bitter end--as sadly do poorly run franchises and then he has a 12 game stretch late next year of 20/10 so they give him 4/$100M thinking he's arrived and now you've really hamstrung the franchise.


biased nonsense from someone who doesn’t watch him

Do you know, or have any clue he shoots near 40% from 3?

Luka met and had dinner with Vlade/Vivek in person and never stated he wouldn’t play for the kings

Terrible post

He’s 21 with a lot of natural talent. No, the kings have no need to spend 11 mil differently next year

At no point did you address the crux of his post which is his defense. He's been absolutely abysmal defensively at the 5 this year which really hurts his value moving forward. The near 40% from 3 is nice but the volume is still fairly low so I'd be more inclined to wait and see before declaring him a shooter, especially given his historical 3 point percentage.


He has the athleticism to play PF fine.

He is still not where he should be in terms of defensive awareness but is 21 and improving slightly as the season goes on. Might take him a few more years if ever, but has great athleticism and a good enough work ethic to maybe figure it out at a decent clip
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#31 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:56 am

shotsquatch wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:That has nothing to do with the term “bust” man.

Bust means he won’t be a player at all

Look, I know it's frustrating. It's been 15 years since the Kings had a winning season. You guys missed out on arguably two generational players in Luka and Trae, and ended up with an injury prone big who can't play defense. I feel for you.

But these excuses you're making aren't rational, and they're not a good look. It's hard to admit, but I think it may be in the Kings best interest to put Bagley on the trade block and get some value for him while he still has any left.


It’s not frustrating, I don’t think about it at all

Past is the past

He’s 21, playing his second year of real ball.

If the team can’t get solid value trade wise, why trade a player with the natural attributes to have ever been considered a second pick?
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#32 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Eventually, but not now. He has a 118.6 defensive rating, third worse among rotation players on your team. Maybe he will improve, but he's not a good defender today, and it hurts the Kings every time he's on the floor. His lack of defense offsets (partly at least) the positive impact that Fox and Haliburton bring. Which goes back to my original point, the development of young players doesn't happen in a vacuum. Playing Bagley puts Fox and Haliburton in a position where they're more likely to lose games than if they were playing with a league average player at his position. He's holding them back.


And the team should be about draft positioning this and next year

He still impacts Fox and Haliburton negatively.

You guys should be fine on the back of those two alone long-term regardless.


Just last night he put up 26/12 with a better defensive awareness and passing than he would’ve showed in December

He’s 21.

It’s annoying that the kings have to go through his growing pains, but the league is about top tier talent. If you have a random shot at it, you wouldn’t trade it for a role player IMO
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#33 » by JohnWillow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:05 am

BoogieTime wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:Unfortunately I agree with Texas Chuck, it's just so damn dissapointing. But even with all that said, I'm still holding out hope that he atleast can stay healthy for once all season and be an ok 3rd or 4th option for playoff team, because he has improved his corner three a lot this year which was a good sign to me.

Just need to finally cut ties with Luke Walton and hope that Bagley SR finally stfu.

We have our backcourt for the future, now we finally need to blow it up and let McNair start from the beginning (trade Buddy, Barnes, CoJo, Bjelica).


“Bust” means he won’t be a player, not that he can still be a 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team

Your agreeing with someone who thinks the kings should move him for a 2nd


I agreed with his statement that it was a bad pick and he was drafted to high.

I had to make clear that in my first poat, my bad.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#34 » by BoogieTime » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:07 am

JohnWillow wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
JohnWillow wrote:Unfortunately I agree with Texas Chuck, it's just so damn dissapointing. But even with all that said, I'm still holding out hope that he atleast can stay healthy for once all season and be an ok 3rd or 4th option for playoff team, because he has improved his corner three a lot this year which was a good sign to me.

Just need to finally cut ties with Luke Walton and hope that Bagley SR finally stfu.

We have our backcourt for the future, now we finally need to blow it up and let McNair start from the beginning (trade Buddy, Barnes, CoJo, Bjelica).


“Bust” means he won’t be a player, not that he can still be a 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team

Your agreeing with someone who thinks the kings should move him for a 2nd


I agreed with his statement that it was a bad pick and he was drafted to high.

I had to make clear that in my first poat, my bad.


No problem man

We all agree with the sentiment he was picked too high and it was not a good pick and Vlade rightly should’ve been fired for that and other things
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#35 » by theonlyclutch » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 am

The majority of star bigs these days (Jokic, Embiid, AD, KAT) had good to great advanced stats from their rookie season onwards, those who were not were either defensive specialists (Gobert) or didn't get much minutes (Bam).

Marvin Bagley is neither of those things, the Kings need to recognize sunk costs and see what value he can bring back.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#36 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:12 am

BoogieTime wrote:Texas_Chuck imo has a predilection to downplaying the other top picks of the 2018 draft

He compared Trae Young to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf last year and you can see his history with Ayton and Jackson by searching him



This thread aint about me.

And for the record I was high on Luka when the Mavs picked 5th and I knew 4 teams couldn't possibly be dumb enough to let him fall to Dallas and was low on Bagley from the jump.

But keep trying to paint me with your pathetic narrative 3 years later because you are mad your team messed up. That ain't on me.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#37 » by ItsDanger » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:13 am

Defensively needs a lot of work. I think he should be playing more minutes at the 5. Kings usually play him at the 4 with full lineup. Way too left hand dominant but that's not as big a factor for a player of his size (but he's also left dominant in block or steal attempts, which is very concerning). His speed is not utilized at all. Watching him set screens tonight in the 4th qtr and not get any action off it points to the real issue on that team. Why is he on the left side, should be on the right block. Walton just seems lacking as a coach. His rotations are puzzling. Give Whiteside's minutes at the 5 all to Bagley. You're not beating the top teams this season in the playoffs.

Let's remember this is really his 2nd pro season in terms of game experience. Obviously players chosen after him have surpassed him but Kings have to ignore that.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#38 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:07 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
And the team should be about draft positioning this and next year

He still impacts Fox and Haliburton negatively.

You guys should be fine on the back of those two alone long-term regardless.


Just last night he put up 26/12 with a better defensive awareness and passing than he would’ve showed in December

He’s 21.

It’s annoying that the kings have to go through his growing pains, but the league is about top tier talent. If you have a random shot at it, you wouldn’t trade it for a role player IMO

That's fair.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#39 » by Dupp » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:16 pm

Maybe the worst draft pick of al time considering how known Donic was.
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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii 

Post#40 » by r0drig0lac » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:21 pm

21 years old is a bust? lol

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