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Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:24 pm
by Muha_i_samolet
He needs a good healthy run, you can't improve when you get injured every month and can't work on your skills\body. It's the same reason KP hasn't improved since his 2nd season and never will, everytime he gets some momentum he gets injued. Stil learly though, the dude is 21, we'll see how it goes, I'd say hold your horses for another season.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:39 pm
by TheFinishSniper
He has tools to be more than decent player. And you can see in flashes that he will be good one.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:52 pm
by pr0wler
shotsquatch wrote:360windmill wrote:We should act like Bagley in his sophomore season right now (reclassified a year early in H.S and missed his real sophomore season). It will take him time but I think he will come into his own as a scoring forward with below average defense.
IMO he will eventually end up being what Julius Randle is now and Randle is hardly a bust. Not close to Luka but that comparison has ended anyways..
I think Bagley projects to be a Jeff Green type. A power forward who can get you some offense in a limited role.
Good Comparison. Though TBH I'd even rather have Jeff Green cause he can actually shoot somewhat lol
Not buying Bagley's 3-point shooting ability at this time, looks like small sample size theater to me. It's almost unheard of for a guy to shoot like 60 FT% yet be a respectable 3-PT shooter.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:18 pm
by druggas
Duke4life831 wrote:He’s a bust
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:10 pm
by 76ciology
Modern day Jared Jeffries
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:03 pm
by _qubik
Well I think the way we label guys will change a lot in the coming years, guys entering the league earlier means they didnt got the time to learn in college. Its all about experience, for me its better to get to the NBA younger, they get the real experience, learn the rotations and game nuances, but guys learn in different speeds. Bagley didnt have a lot of continuity, he played the rookie season, and then got injured a lot. The guy is still 21, he got plenty of time, maybe he will improve faster and turn to be a better player. The signs arent great though, maybe its the result of the lack of continuity.
Another thing, Haliburton AST to TO ratio is nuts for a rookie, he looks like a role player PG with decade plus experience that contenders are after to pair with their wing stars.
I compared with Curry, Nash (2.1 to 1), Stockton, CP3 (7.3 to 2.8) and Kidd, all known great and efficient passers, Nash was the only one to average less turnovers, just 1, but he dished just 2.1 assists, and CP3 averaged 2.8 turnovers but dished 7.3.
Haliburton sits at 5.2 assists to 1.6 turnovers. Less assist than Paul, though the rate is better than any of those guys, its 3.25, very impressive
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:11 pm
by HabsAndDubs
Unfair to call him a bust, because he’s compared to his quasi-superstar teammate, and the guy who was drafted after him who is on pace to become a top 10 all time. Not to mention he missed a lot of last season. He’ll never be the “right pick” considering who was drafted after him, but I hope he can become a reliable borderline all star, he’s still very young.
Anyone have any numbers on the amount of underwhelming/bust 2nd overalls? Feel like the third overall probably has better successes than the 2nd, just off the top of my head
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:13 pm
by babyjax13
Texas Chuck wrote:He's a bust. He was overpicked by at least 5-6 spots because the other top picks were refusing to meet with the Kings and Bagley was publicly saying he wanted to be a King. Which is why the guy who ran that draft no longer has that job with the team.
It was a bad pick, and he's done nothing in coming on 3 years to show any growth. Bigs who won't defend and can't space have no value and its made worse by being overdrafted so he makes big money for a rookie.
If a team offers an expiring and a 2nd they should take it as an addition by subtraction move. Maybe he eventually figures it out, but the Kings are starting to put some pieces into place and shouldn't be wasting more time with this guy.
I get fans just look at age and draft spot and think just give him time, but he's only got one more rookie year left and again at a big number so there is no value there. Smart franchises are willing to cut their losses. Fans hold on to the bitter end--as sadly do poorly run franchises and then he has a 12 game stretch late next year of 20/10 so they give him 4/$100M thinking he's arrived and now you've really hamstrung the franchise.
To be fair to Bagley, he is shooting 39% from three this year on three attempts. Still a bust relative to available prospects, but he might turn into something useful, maybe a better Bobby Portis or a worse John Collins, in terms of playstyle.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:22 pm
by Texas Chuck
babyjax13 wrote:
To be fair to Bagley, he is shooting 39% from three this year on three attempts. Still a bust relative to available prospects, but he might turn into something useful, maybe a better Bobby Portis or a worse John Collins, in terms of playstyle.
I think I should have avoided the word "bust". It was clearly triggering to some other posters and it can be misleading. I don't mean he can't stick in the league for a dozen years and provide some offense for a bench. But it's hard to imagine a good team finding a way to start him.
I was aware he's shooting okay on low volume but he's still not a spacer because teams aren't concerned about him out there. He's shooting 40% because he's getting all day to shoot. Watch how teams defend him and how teams defend Bjelica when he gets into games. Bjelica is having a terrible shooting season because he can't get into rhythm without a consistent role, but teams are afraid of him and close out much harder.
It's like Delon Wright last year with Dallas. He shot a good percentage but if you watched the games he'd only shoot if he had 15 feet of space and passed up tons of shots the offense needed him to take. The percentages don't tell the whole story on how a guy impacts an offense.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:27 pm
by jpengland
He needs to focus on becoming a 5 and defending the rim.
If he can't defend the rim, I think he doesn't have great value moving forward.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:29 pm
by matt6715
Bagley might be another Julius Randle who takes some time to figure it out.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:41 pm
by BlazersBroncos
Bagley might be another Julius Randle who takes some time to figure it out.
He isnt near the passer or rebounder that Randle is, and that isnt likely to change.
He doesnt do much without usage, but he isnt good enough to justify high usage. He just isnt the type of big that is likely to play a significant role on a truly good team. For that, he is a bust.
I think he can put up decent numbers, sorta like a slightly better, healthier version of Jabari Parker. But he isnt helping you win many games.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:50 pm
by ItsDanger
Lot of comments further cement the theory most do not watch the games.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:56 pm
by The_Hater
I’ve personally seen enough to conclude that he’s not even a future, surefire NBA starter let alone a future star. More like a depth piece.
What exactly does he do well? What does he provide for his team that helps them win games?
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:02 pm
by DroseReturnChi
TheBrooklynKidd wrote:sackings916 wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:He's a bust. He was overpicked by at least 5-6 spots because the other top picks were refusing to meet with the Kings and Bagley was publicly saying he wanted to be a King. Which is why the guy who ran that draft no longer has that job with the team.
It was a bad pick, and he's done nothing in coming on 3 years to show any growth. Bigs who won't defend and can't space have no value and its made worse by being overdrafted so he makes big money for a rookie.
If a team offers an expiring and a 2nd they should take it as an addition by subtraction move. Maybe he eventually figures it out, but the Kings are starting to put some pieces into place and shouldn't be wasting more time with this guy.
I get fans just look at age and draft spot and think just give him time, but he's only got one more rookie year left and again at a big number so there is no value there. Smart franchises are willing to cut their losses. Fans hold on to the bitter end--as sadly do poorly run franchises and then he has a 12 game stretch late next year of 20/10 so they give him 4/$100M thinking he's arrived and now you've really hamstrung the franchise.
Have to disagree with you Chuck. Bagley has made a lot of progress in his 3 ball as well as his overall awareness and feel for the game. Even made a little progress defensively recently. I still think he has a chance and hope the Kings are patient with him.
I second this. If his 3 ball comes around then he’s suddenly very valuable.
Julius Randle took a leap in his 7th season. I’m not ready to give up on Bagley yet.
so your gonna wait 7yrs for hopes he could break out? thats now how team building works.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:10 pm
by Ballerhogger
Honestly he needs new start but looking like bust
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:12 pm
by jdzimme3
Both sides of this argument are partially right in my opinion. Dude is on the fast track to being a bust. His value is dramatically lower than it was when he was picked at 2. That said, he is still young and I don’t know why you would trade him for scraps unless those scraps also have a very high ceiling.
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:12 pm
by Jadoogar
BoogieTime wrote:JohnWillow wrote:Unfortunately I agree with Texas Chuck, it's just so damn dissapointing. But even with all that said, I'm still holding out hope that he atleast can stay healthy for once all season and be an ok 3rd or 4th option for playoff team, because he has improved his corner three a lot this year which was a good sign to me.
Just need to finally cut ties with Luke Walton and hope that Bagley SR finally stfu.
We have our backcourt for the future, now we finally need to blow it up and let McNair start from the beginning (trade Buddy, Barnes, CoJo, Bjelica).
“Bust” means he won’t be a player, not that he can still be a 3rd or 4th option on a playoff team
Your agreeing with someone who thinks the kings should move him for a 2nd
Hard disagree, he's a bust for his draft spot. You don't aim for a role player at #2. Especially as the next 3 picks were all better players (including 1 with a MVP potential)
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:23 pm
by clyde21
maybe the jury is out still on whether it's a complete bust or just a disappointment for where he was picked, still young and development is not linear, but he's a guy that should've never been drafted that high to begin with in today's NBA, and not just retroactively speaking
that draft was really a mess now that I look at it, I had Bamba very high and he's been a complete non-factor so far, JJJ as well and while he's been just ok and in and out of the lineup with injuries, Ayton is good but we're seeing why he's not an archetype you draft in the top3 or top5...after Luka that entire class is all over the place
Re: is the jury still out on marvin bagley iii
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pm
by UcanUwill
I just dont get hype around him, people say hes athletic when defending him, hes not even that athletic, I have no clue what Chris Vernon was drinking calling this guy a prospect who can not fail, he had bust written all over him, guy who plays hard, thats great, but you dont draft hustle player second overall.