Is Fred VanVleet an all star?

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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#201 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:40 am

theonlyclutch wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?


Fred won a championship checking steph curry.


Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.


And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#202 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 am

everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Let's be real - Simmons couldn't slow down Kawhi in the playoffs even a little bit, and even Tatum has shrugged him off easily in two playoffs series now.


And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?


Fred won a championship checking steph curry.


You still didn’t answer the question. You think it’s the same guarding 6ft 3 Steph to Kawhi or Tatum?
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#203 » by God Squad » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:43 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?


Fred won a championship checking steph curry.


You still didn’t answer the question. You think it’s the same guarding 6ft 3 Steph to Kawhi or Tatum?

He's moving goalpost because he knows the answer is No.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#204 » by God Squad » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:44 am

Nope. Sorry Raptor fam Fred ain't making it yet.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#205 » by VanWest82 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.


Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.


And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.


FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#206 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:51 am

VanWest82 wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.


And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.


FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.


That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.

You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#207 » by everdiso » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.


Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.


And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.


And it was a disaster when Simmons tried to guard kawhi 1 on 1 too.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#208 » by everdiso » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:02 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.


FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.


That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.

You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.


Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#209 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 am

everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.


And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.


And it was a disaster when Simmons tried to guard kawhi 1 on 1 too.


Yes it’s an offensive players league. If the guy you’re guarding is really good you’re not going to stop him. But overall Simmons could make life tougher for him 1 on 1. In 2019 if you flip fvv for Simmons so that Simmons is on the raps and fvv is on the sixers and the form Kawhi was in that series he wouldn’t have noticed Fred was even there.

But Agree to disagree I guess. We’re just going to end up going in circles.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#210 » by cool007 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:11 am

PistolPeteJR wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
I’d trade for him in a heartbeat. Putting him next to Fred, OG, Siakam would be legit.

Lowry + Powell + 1st for Lavine and Porter Jr?


The Bulls would have no interest in that trade. Lowry is good, but he's 34 years old.


No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?


Bulls slam the door on the face of the Raptors front office. Bulls are NOT trading Lavine.

You can have Coby, Lauri, Otto Porter Jr, valentine, Huthinson, Felicio, Kornet - just pick any.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#211 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:12 am

everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:
FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.


That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.

You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.


Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.


I was gonna let this convo go until I saw this. I like Fred and think he’s a very good defender but it’s crap like this that makes other teams fans look at us like we’re deluded.

No Fred does not guard the hell out of big men. When he gets posted up a help defender comes to help him. You make it sound like if embiid backed him down fvv would stand his ground :crazy:
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#212 » by Dan Z » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:24 am

cool007 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
The Bulls would have no interest in that trade. Lowry is good, but he's 34 years old.


No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?


Bulls slam the door on the face of the Raptors front office. Bulls are NOT trading Lavine.

You can have Coby, Lauri, Otto Porter Jr, valentine, Huthinson, Felicio, Kornet - just pick any.


I'd rather keep Coby than trade him for 34 year old Lowry. Sure, Lowry is a good player but how many more years will he play at this level?

Coby is a streaky player who has showed improvement and is only 20 years old.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#213 » by AussieCeltic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:44 am

Duffman100 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
nikster wrote:He's borderline. 20 points and 6.6 assist, average scoring efficiency but low turnover rate. Does that while providing Elite defense. I think he's deserving but won't be surprised if he doesn't make it
FVV is not an elite defender. That's crazy talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


Fred is definitely an elite defender.

He gave Curry fits in the Finals, he defended Tatum decently in the 2nd round last year (giving up 8-9 inches).


Maybe I'm getting too old and my memory is fading, but I don't remember FVV guarding Tatum in the playoffs last season. Wasn't it Siakam + OG?
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#214 » by dkb9696 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:35 am

Dan Z wrote:
cool007 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:
No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?


Bulls slam the door on the face of the Raptors front office. Bulls are NOT trading Lavine.

You can have Coby, Lauri, Otto Porter Jr, valentine, Huthinson, Felicio, Kornet - just pick any.


I'd rather keep Coby than trade him for 34 year old Lowry. Sure, Lowry is a good player but how many more years will he play at this level?

Coby is a streaky player who has showed improvement and is only 20 years old.


If the Raptors trade Lowry it will be to a contender. He is still a very good player and would really give a boost to a team like the 76ers. The 76ers have the expiring contracts, young players and picks,

Kyle Lowry/Matt Thomas for Danny Green/Mike Scott/Terrence Ferguson would be the structure of the deal money wise with the Raptors wanting a 1rst round pick and one of Shake Milton/Matisse Thybulle/Tyrese Maxey as well.

Lowry
Curry
Harris
Simmons
Embiid

VanVleet
Powell
Anunoby
Siakam
Boucher

It would be a fun trade to see happen.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#215 » by Rastas » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 am

Man I really need to see FVV and Simmons go head to head all game now , c'mon Doc/Nurse let it happen!
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#216 » by everdiso » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:09 pm

Marty_Budda wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.

You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.


Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.


I was gonna let this convo go until I saw this. I like Fred and think he’s a very good defender but it’s crap like this that makes other teams fans look at us like we’re deluded.



You should worry less about what other fans think, given how silly and deluded these raps have made those other fans look, year in and year out.

If there's one thing these raps have proven over and over again, it's that those other fans underrate every single thing about them.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#217 » by Danny1616 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:19 pm

He is an all-star this year.

Raptors are 5th in the East right now and he's been the Raptors best player all year.

Dude is averaging 20, 6 and 4 with elite on ball defense. He also leads the league in steals. He should be in the conversation for an all-NBA defensive team spot.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#218 » by GoBobs » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:21 pm

He doesn't have the individual stats to make it. His volume is okay but his efficiency is very average (55% true shooting). There are plenty of other guys with the same or better volume and also better efficiency.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#219 » by Danny1616 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:22 pm

IzzyT wrote:
everdiso wrote:
IzzyT wrote:The absurdity of claiming FVV is a better defender than Ben Simmons based on single (partial) season box score derivative stats and noisy adjusted +/- cannot be overstated. It really can’t.

Fred can defend one position reliably. Simmons defends all five and even offers weak side rim protection. He’s an all-league athlete by every raw physical measure whereas FVV has, probably, the worst physical toolbox of any major rotation player in the NBA.


It's not one season, and it's not one stat. It's every season, and every stat.

Plus a playoffs resume of actually checking the other team's superstar, something Simmons hasn't been able to do.


For most of his career, FVV has been relegated to the bench because his own coaching staff thought he’d be a liability on the defensive end. It’s why he was drafted where he was...

Every season, every stat? That’s demonstrably false. You just posted that that’s not true.

And, again, who cares? There’s only two stats. Box score derivatives which look at steals, blocks, rebounding, pace, and a few other factors. That doesn’t capture defensive impact. Even the creators of this like DBPM don’t encourage people to take it at face value.

Then you have adjusted +/- stats which are so noisy that they cannot help with granular comparisons due to attribution errors. Adjusted +/-, for single seasons, is good for telling us things like, this guy might be under/overrated or this guy is definitely a star and not just a bench player. They have huge standard deviations and it isn’t meant to be used in the way it is by so many posters. It’s useful for making broad categorizations. It isn’t for telling who is better between two guys with similar numbers.


Huh?

He was undrafted and didn't get an opportunity to play his 1st year. He was also the 4th back up point guard after Lowry, Joseph, and Delon Wright.

When he got playing time his 2nd year he led the best bench unit in the league. By the end of this 2nd year he was closing out games with the starters. This was despite the fact that he had to compete for minutes with Delon Wright who was drafted the year before him.

In his 3rd year he started to replace Danny Green in close out games. In the Bucks and Warriors series, Fred was playing starter minutes and closed out most games.

In his 4th year he became a full-time starter and Raptors had the 2nd best defense in the league. In fact, the Raptors had Fred guard the opposing teams best guards night in and night out so Lowry didn't have to exert as much energy on that end.

I don't think you have an idea of what you are talking about.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#220 » by Sandman88 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:24 pm

Lunartic wrote:Today I learned, Fred VanVleet 20/6/4 on .550TS is a better player than Zach Lavine 29/5/5 on .647TS

FVV is a good player and is a starter on a contender but he's not better than Zach Lavine, even those goofy nerd stats you guys love so much like VORP/BPM/Winshares have Lavine above FVV and that's not counting the obvious enormous difference in offensive capability. The man is averaging 10 more points on insanely higher TS%.

You’re forgetting that defense matters and Lavine provides no defense whilst FVV is an all NBA defender
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