IzzyT wrote: everdiso wrote:
IzzyT wrote:The absurdity of claiming FVV is a better defender than Ben Simmons based on single (partial) season box score derivative stats and noisy adjusted +/- cannot be overstated. It really can’t.
Fred can defend one position reliably. Simmons defends all five and even offers weak side rim protection. He’s an all-league athlete by every raw physical measure whereas FVV has, probably, the worst physical toolbox of any major rotation player in the NBA.
It's not one season, and it's not one stat. It's every season, and every stat.
Plus a playoffs resume of actually checking the other team's superstar, something Simmons hasn't been able to do.
For most of his career, FVV has been relegated to the bench because his own coaching staff thought he’d be a liability on the defensive end. It’s why he was drafted where he was...
Every season, every stat? That’s demonstrably false. You just posted that that’s not true.
And, again, who cares? There’s only two stats. Box score derivatives which look at steals, blocks, rebounding, pace, and a few other factors. That doesn’t capture defensive impact. Even the creators of this like DBPM don’t encourage people to take it at face value.
Then you have adjusted +/- stats which are so noisy that they cannot help with granular comparisons due to attribution errors. Adjusted +/-, for single seasons, is good for telling us things like, this guy might be under/overrated or this guy is definitely a star and not just a bench player. They have huge standard deviations and it isn’t meant to be used in the way it is by so many posters. It’s useful for making broad categorizations. It isn’t for telling who is better between two guys with similar numbers.
He was undrafted and didn't get an opportunity to play his 1st year. He was also the 4th back up point guard after Lowry, Joseph, and Delon Wright.
When he got playing time his 2nd year he led the best bench unit in the league. By the end of this 2nd year he was closing out games with the starters. This was despite the fact that he had to compete for minutes with Delon Wright who was drafted the year before him.
In his 3rd year he started to replace Danny Green in close out games. In the Bucks and Warriors series, Fred was playing starter minutes and closed out most games.
In his 4th year he became a full-time starter and Raptors had the 2nd best defense in the league. In fact, the Raptors had Fred guard the opposing teams best guards night in and night out so Lowry didn't have to exert as much energy on that end.
I don't think you have an idea of what you are talking about.