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theonlyclutch wrote:everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:
And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.
everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:everdiso wrote:
Let's be real - Simmons couldn't slow down Kawhi in the playoffs even a little bit, and even Tatum has shrugged him off easily in two playoffs series now.
And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.
Marty_Budda wrote:everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:
And you think Fred can stop those guys or slow them down more than Simmons could?
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.
You still didn’t answer the question. You think it’s the same guarding 6ft 3 Steph to Kawhi or Tatum?
Marty_Budda wrote:theonlyclutch wrote:everdiso wrote:
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
VanWest82 wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:theonlyclutch wrote:
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.
Marty_Budda wrote:theonlyclutch wrote:everdiso wrote:
Fred won a championship checking steph curry.
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
Marty_Budda wrote:VanWest82 wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.
That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.
You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.
everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:theonlyclutch wrote:
Curry averaged 30/5/6 on 60% TS being checked by FVV.
And Steph curry is below 6ft 4. That was my point. If Fred tries to guard Kawhi 1 on 1 it’d be a disaster. He’s too big for him.
And it was a disaster when Simmons tried to guard kawhi 1 on 1 too.
PistolPeteJR wrote:Dan Z wrote:PistolPeteJR wrote:
I’d trade for him in a heartbeat. Putting him next to Fred, OG, Siakam would be legit.
Lowry + Powell + 1st for Lavine and Porter Jr?
The Bulls would have no interest in that trade. Lowry is good, but he's 34 years old.
No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?
everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:VanWest82 wrote:
FWIW Fred matched up with Kawhi for six possessions last year. Kawhi missed the one shot he took and had 4 turnovers.
That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.
You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.
Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.
cool007 wrote:PistolPeteJR wrote:Dan Z wrote:
The Bulls would have no interest in that trade. Lowry is good, but he's 34 years old.
No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?
Bulls slam the door on the face of the Raptors front office. Bulls are NOT trading Lavine.
You can have Coby, Lauri, Otto Porter Jr, valentine, Huthinson, Felicio, Kornet - just pick any.
Duffman100 wrote:jbk1234 wrote:FVV is not an elite defender. That's crazy talk.nikster wrote:He's borderline. 20 points and 6.6 assist, average scoring efficiency but low turnover rate. Does that while providing Elite defense. I think he's deserving but won't be surprised if he doesn't make it
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Fred is definitely an elite defender.
He gave Curry fits in the Finals, he defended Tatum decently in the 2nd round last year (giving up 8-9 inches).
Dan Z wrote:cool007 wrote:PistolPeteJR wrote:
No value in getting Porter off the books and developing Coby?
Bulls slam the door on the face of the Raptors front office. Bulls are NOT trading Lavine.
You can have Coby, Lauri, Otto Porter Jr, valentine, Huthinson, Felicio, Kornet - just pick any.
I'd rather keep Coby than trade him for 34 year old Lowry. Sure, Lowry is a good player but how many more years will he play at this level?
Coby is a streaky player who has showed improvement and is only 20 years old.
Marty_Budda wrote:everdiso wrote:Marty_Budda wrote:
That 6 possession sample size. Crazy.
You should ring up Masai and Nick Nurse to let them know they should put fvv on Kawhi all game. Since you’ve found the Kawhi stopper.
Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.
I was gonna let this convo go until I saw this. I like Fred and think he’s a very good defender but it’s crap like this that makes other teams fans look at us like we’re deluded.
IzzyT wrote:everdiso wrote:IzzyT wrote:The absurdity of claiming FVV is a better defender than Ben Simmons based on single (partial) season box score derivative stats and noisy adjusted +/- cannot be overstated. It really can’t.
Fred can defend one position reliably. Simmons defends all five and even offers weak side rim protection. He’s an all-league athlete by every raw physical measure whereas FVV has, probably, the worst physical toolbox of any major rotation player in the NBA.
It's not one season, and it's not one stat. It's every season, and every stat.
Plus a playoffs resume of actually checking the other team's superstar, something Simmons hasn't been able to do.
For most of his career, FVV has been relegated to the bench because his own coaching staff thought he’d be a liability on the defensive end. It’s why he was drafted where he was...
Every season, every stat? That’s demonstrably false. You just posted that that’s not true.
And, again, who cares? There’s only two stats. Box score derivatives which look at steals, blocks, rebounding, pace, and a few other factors. That doesn’t capture defensive impact. Even the creators of this like DBPM don’t encourage people to take it at face value.
Then you have adjusted +/- stats which are so noisy that they cannot help with granular comparisons due to attribution errors. Adjusted +/-, for single seasons, is good for telling us things like, this guy might be under/overrated or this guy is definitely a star and not just a bench player. They have huge standard deviations and it isn’t meant to be used in the way it is by so many posters. It’s useful for making broad categorizations. It isn’t for telling who is better between two guys with similar numbers.
Lunartic wrote:Today I learned, Fred VanVleet 20/6/4 on .550TS is a better player than Zach Lavine 29/5/5 on .647TS
FVV is a good player and is a starter on a contender but he's not better than Zach Lavine, even those goofy nerd stats you guys love so much like VORP/BPM/Winshares have Lavine above FVV and that's not counting the obvious enormous difference in offensive capability. The man is averaging 10 more points on insanely higher TS%.