Is Fred VanVleet an all star?

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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#221 » by Lunartic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 pm

Sandman88 wrote:
Lunartic wrote:Today I learned, Fred VanVleet 20/6/4 on .550TS is a better player than Zach Lavine 29/5/5 on .647TS

FVV is a good player and is a starter on a contender but he's not better than Zach Lavine, even those goofy nerd stats you guys love so much like VORP/BPM/Winshares have Lavine above FVV and that's not counting the obvious enormous difference in offensive capability. The man is averaging 10 more points on insanely higher TS%.

You’re forgetting that defense matters and Lavine provides no defense whilst FVV is an all NBA defender


Lavine is a pretty average defender this season, FVV is unquestionably better but Zach is better offensively than FVV is defensively.

You must not have watched much Lavine this season

Lavine has been better than FVV this season, Lavine is doubled and tripled frequently and is asked to carry the majority of the scoring load as well as playmaking load. His teammates are inferior to FVV's teammates and yet are only a couple games behind the Raps.

FVV is a special dude but it's like comparing 2014 Mike Conley to 2021 Lillard.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#222 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:34 pm

Doesn't look like one or act like one but once you tip it off he sure plays like one.

He plays his role perfectly, he knows who he is and plays both ends of the floor hard. He's a true two way player, look at his steals. His only weakness is his size. He can't force the issue at the rim and deliver rim rattling dunks, but he can get there.

This guy worked his butt off to make it in the NBA and he plays like he's still looking over his shoulder and worried about being cut.

I wish all players played like that.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#223 » by kleatius_01 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:50 pm

Fred is great, but I don't think he's an All Star yet. I think he's a bit too streaky now. If he could get his efficiency up, and cut down on the games where his shot's not falling and he can't get anything going on O then he's there. Here's hoping, go Fred!
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#224 » by nikster » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:01 pm

Lunartic wrote:
Sandman88 wrote:
Lunartic wrote:Today I learned, Fred VanVleet 20/6/4 on .550TS is a better player than Zach Lavine 29/5/5 on .647TS

FVV is a good player and is a starter on a contender but he's not better than Zach Lavine, even those goofy nerd stats you guys love so much like VORP/BPM/Winshares have Lavine above FVV and that's not counting the obvious enormous difference in offensive capability. The man is averaging 10 more points on insanely higher TS%.

You’re forgetting that defense matters and Lavine provides no defense whilst FVV is an all NBA defender


Lavine is a pretty average defender this season, FVV is unquestionably better but Zach is better offensively than FVV is defensively.

You must not have watched much Lavine this season

Lavine has been better than FVV this season, Lavine is doubled and tripled frequently and is asked to carry the majority of the scoring load as well as playmaking load. His teammates are inferior to FVV's teammates and yet are only a couple games behind the Raps.

FVV is a special dude but it's like comparing 2014 Mike Conley to 2021 Lillard.

I mostly agree, but as for record raptors seemed to have turned it around after that 2-8 start. I expect they will continue to climb the rankings and widen that gap with the Bulls
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#225 » by BloodNinja » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:08 pm

Sandman88 wrote:
Lunartic wrote:Today I learned, Fred VanVleet 20/6/4 on .550TS is a better player than Zach Lavine 29/5/5 on .647TS

FVV is a good player and is a starter on a contender but he's not better than Zach Lavine, even those goofy nerd stats you guys love so much like VORP/BPM/Winshares have Lavine above FVV and that's not counting the obvious enormous difference in offensive capability. The man is averaging 10 more points on insanely higher TS%.

You’re forgetting that defense matters and Lavine provides no defense whilst FVV is an all NBA defender
When exactly has FVV made the all defense team?
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#226 » by ItsDanger » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:09 pm

There's several reasons why certain players are usually on winning teams, most of which aren't mentioned here. These factors aren't considered for all star games. E.g. low turnover rate
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#227 » by nikster » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:17 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
Reeko wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:
It’s an all star game. Not who can anchor the best defense game.

So then it begs the question, what does it truly mean to be an All Star?


Elite scoring volume combined with elite scoring efficiency.

I absolutely love fvv but his team is only 1.5 games out from the bulls, with fvv having vastly better teammates. After fvv and lavine, I would easily take three guys on the raps before I would even consider taking anyone from the bulls

The fact that this inexperienced bulls team missing their starting frontcourt for much of the season is even in playoff contention is impressive for me...more impressive than being 1.5 games ahead of them at this point with a deeper, more experienced team, imo.

The record thing could change drastically. Since their 2-8 start raptors have turned things around and are playing at 55 win pace. Bulls are in the playoff spot now, but with how tight things are in the East they could just as easily end up in 12th as in the playoffs
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#228 » by everdiso » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 pm

VanVleet Eastern Ranks (min 30mpg)

#22 PPG
#6 AST
#6 A/TO
#6 STL
#2 Deflections
#4 Loose Ball recoveries
#12 +/-
#11 net rating
#18 BPM
#7 RPM
#2 RAPTOR
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#229 » by sllubwoc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:57 pm

nikster wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Reeko wrote:So then it begs the question, what does it truly mean to be an All Star?


Elite scoring volume combined with elite scoring efficiency.

I absolutely love fvv but his team is only 1.5 games out from the bulls, with fvv having vastly better teammates. After fvv and lavine, I would easily take three guys on the raps before I would even consider taking anyone from the bulls

The fact that this inexperienced bulls team missing their starting frontcourt for much of the season is even in playoff contention is impressive for me...more impressive than being 1.5 games ahead of them at this point with a deeper, more experienced team, imo.

The record thing could change drastically. Since their 2-8 start raptors have turned things around and are playing at 55 win pace. Bulls are in the playoff spot now, but with how tight things are in the East they could just as easily end up in 12th as in the playoffs


So Raptors will win 55 and the Bulls will finish near the bottom in the East. Interesting.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#230 » by nikster » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm

sllubwoc wrote:
nikster wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Elite scoring volume combined with elite scoring efficiency.

I absolutely love fvv but his team is only 1.5 games out from the bulls, with fvv having vastly better teammates. After fvv and lavine, I would easily take three guys on the raps before I would even consider taking anyone from the bulls

The fact that this inexperienced bulls team missing their starting frontcourt for much of the season is even in playoff contention is impressive for me...more impressive than being 1.5 games ahead of them at this point with a deeper, more experienced team, imo.

The record thing could change drastically. Since their 2-8 start raptors have turned things around and are playing at 55 win pace. Bulls are in the playoff spot now, but with how tight things are in the East they could just as easily end up in 12th as in the playoffs


So Raptors will win 55 and the Bulls will finish near the bottom in the East. Interesting.

No point in coversing if your gonna ignore the point I was trying to make. Even If you took what I said at face value as a literal prediction of the rest of the season,I would expect Raps to finish with 43 wins.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#231 » by TroubleS0me » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:45 pm

He wont make it, there are others guards who deserve it over him.

Lavine
Harden
Trae Young
Simmons
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#232 » by Danny1616 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:03 pm

TroubleS0me wrote:He wont make it, there are others guards who deserve it over him.

Lavine
Harden
Trae Young
Simmons


Trae does not deserve the nod over Fred this year.

Lavine gets a slight nod over Fred but he's very turnover prone with terrible defense.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#233 » by jamaalstar21 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:09 pm

Not sure how this happened, but there are 300 worthy all-stars in the East. There's going to be some snubs. Has FVV been worthy of an all-star spot based on his play? For sure. Will he get one over a large handful of other guys? We'll find out soon.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#234 » by Marty_Budda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:10 pm

everdiso wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
everdiso wrote:
Fred switches on to big men constantly, and defends the helll out of them.


I was gonna let this convo go until I saw this. I like Fred and think he’s a very good defender but it’s crap like this that makes other teams fans look at us like we’re deluded.



You should worry less about what other fans think, given how silly and deluded these raps have made those other fans look, year in and year out.

If there's one thing these raps have proven over and over again, it's that those other fans underrate every single thing about them.


I don’t disagree about that. Raps will always be underrated.

But you’re taking it overboard. Saying fvv can do a great job on guards at the perimeter is a great compliment. But you don’t seem satisfied with that. You start comparing him to guys who are first Team all D that can switch on all positions. It’s not Fred’s fault that he can’t do that, he’s making the best with what he can work with.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#235 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:16 pm

He's not making it over Harden. Harden in the 12 or so games he's played with the Nets has been more impressive than FVV this season and the Nets have won damn near every game without KD
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#236 » by Senor Chang » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:31 pm

The Raptor's record is not elite enough to put someone in for winning record. 1 game over .500 ball is barely a feather in the cap for FVV over Zach's 14-16 bulls. Philly, Brooklyn, Bucks have good records that might get them 2 guys in the ASG.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#237 » by Spud2nique » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 pm

I like the guy but he better not get in over Trae. Team records are about the same and 20 points 6.5 assists and 4.5 boards aren’t gonna cut it.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#238 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:52 pm

The dude has more blocked shots than Ben Simmons and he's 5"11 with a five inch vert and gator arms. Give him the spot!
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#239 » by SF_Warriors » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:55 pm

nikster wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Reeko wrote:So then it begs the question, what does it truly mean to be an All Star?


Elite scoring volume combined with elite scoring efficiency.

I absolutely love fvv but his team is only 1.5 games out from the bulls, with fvv having vastly better teammates. After fvv and lavine, I would easily take three guys on the raps before I would even consider taking anyone from the bulls

The fact that this inexperienced bulls team missing their starting frontcourt for much of the season is even in playoff contention is impressive for me...more impressive than being 1.5 games ahead of them at this point with a deeper, more experienced team, imo.

The record thing could change drastically. Since their 2-8 start raptors have turned things around and are playing at 55 win pace. Bulls are in the playoff spot now, but with how tight things are in the East they could just as easily end up in 12th as in the playoffs


Sure, but I am talking about what has actually has happened thus far this season, and not what ifs. As is, Lavine has earned all star consideration based on what he has accomplished this season. The raps can go on a winning streak, or van vleet can end up in a slump, we really dont know. Doesnt change the merits of what either has accomplished so far which I find Lavine to be more impressive although as I said before, FVV has been having a fabulous season as well and deserves consideration just the same.
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Re: Is Fred VanVleet an all star? 

Post#240 » by Yeezus_ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm

lol Lavine will definitely get the allstar spot over Fred I think due to raw stats but no competent GM is taking Lavine over Fred to win a championship.
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