Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring?

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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#21 » by The4thHorseman » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:20 pm

DaddyCool19 wrote:Would the NBA suspend Green, if the Cavs win it the year before? I bet Lebron would have preferred to win it in his first year, if that meant no KD in Golden State

Golden St. recruited KD for almost the entire 2016 season. So regardless of 2015's outcome, either way I still see them going after KD in 2016.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/report-warriors-players-recruited-kevin-durant-all-season
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#22 » by stormi » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:22 pm

GhosDini wrote:Would the Cavs have won their ring had Curry and Bogut been healthy and Draymond not been suspended?


Yes
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#23 » by The4thHorseman » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:28 pm

Marrrcuss wrote:In 2016, the warriors lost because Bogut and Iggy were hurt. When fools point to the Draymond suspension when there was a game 6 and a game 7 where he played, i wonder about their IQs and fandom, lol

I get that Bogut was a good rim protector, but I think he gets overrated. Just the series before when GS went 7gms with OKC, Bogut barely avg. 18 mins. a game. I would think against Steven Adams and Ibaka, that Bogut would have gotten more time if he's as effective as those claim.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#24 » by Lunartic » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:34 pm

Yeah it's probable that the Cavs win both years without catastrophic injuries to their team in 2015.

People like to bring up Bogut being injured but the man was a bench player averaging 3 points on .471TS and 3 rebounds in 12 mins a game. If he was such an important player why was he so unproductive and only played 12mpg? He's not comparable in any way, shape, or form to Irving/Love.

Same with the "iggy was hurt" narrative. He played every single game in the finals and played 1 less minute than Draymond Green and 7 more mins than Barnes. Everyone is banged up in the playoffs but clearly he wasn't too badly hurting or GSW is a scummy organization for letting him play that many minutes.

Curry played like garbage in the 2016 finals averaging 22/5/3 and had one of the worst finals turnovers I've seen
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#25 » by Marrrcuss » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:41 pm

The4thHorseman wrote:
Marrrcuss wrote:In 2016, the warriors lost because Bogut and Iggy were hurt. When fools point to the Draymond suspension when there was a game 6 and a game 7 where he played, i wonder about their IQs and fandom, lol

I get that Bogut was a good rim protector, but I think he gets overrated. Just the series before when GS went 7gms with OKC, Bogut barely avg. 18 mins. a game. I would think against Steven Adams and Ibaka, that Bogut would have gotten more time if he's as effective as those claim.


Him and Iggy healthy would have deterred some of Kyrie and LeBrons drives to the basket.

Not sure that miraculous block happens if Iggy is healthy either.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#26 » by Slim Charless » Mon Mar 1, 2021 5:49 pm

Openheimer wrote:
DaddyCool19 wrote:Would the NBA suspend Green, if the Cavs win it the year before? I bet Lebron would have preferred to win it in his first year, if that meant no KD in Golden State

The sad chain of events that created the most stacked team ever


That should've lost to the Rockets. A healthy CP3 those last 2 games and we're talking about those dubs as maybe the biggest chokers in sports history.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#27 » by Openheimer » Mon Mar 1, 2021 7:25 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Openheimer wrote:
DaddyCool19 wrote:Would the NBA suspend Green, if the Cavs win it the year before? I bet Lebron would have preferred to win it in his first year, if that meant no KD in Golden State

The sad chain of events that created the most stacked team ever


That should've lost to the Rockets. A healthy CP3 those last 2 games and we're talking about those dubs as maybe the biggest chokers in sports history.


Yep CP3 stays healthy Houston would have won in 6 to be honest. They looked like the better team
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#28 » by Benedict_Boozer » Mon Mar 1, 2021 7:28 pm

Nope. Even Kyrie alone would have done it, Love was not a great matchup with GSW.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#29 » by Rodwilliams » Mon Mar 1, 2021 8:06 pm

Plossum wrote:I think a 1-1 outcome across the 15 and 16 seasons was a fairly accurate result. Both teams were really close so it makes sense they took one Finals each. Warriors won 15 pretty easily once they figured out starting Iggy was the right move. And in 16 the series went 7 and came down to Kyrie making a pretty huge three. There was not much at all between those two squads.



It’s fair to say that the Cavs win both years. Warriors only won 15 because of injuries and 16 they took choking to a whole new level that it has never been to before, losing a 3-1 lead in the Finals, something that no team has done. Saying that it came down to a Kyrie shot ignores the three games they choked away. I don’t see a scenario where the Warriors beat a healthy Cavs team in a series.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#30 » by ILOVEIT » Mon Mar 1, 2021 8:13 pm

Openheimer wrote:And if Draymond not got suspended would the Cavs the next year comeback from 3-1 down?


ugh....

Would the Raptors won a game against the Warriors in that finals if the Warriors were completely healthy?
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#31 » by rtiff68 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 8:14 pm

OriginalRed wrote:Well according to most people especially the Lebron camp, they would have won easily had K Love and Kyrie been healthy.

Which begs the question how the fully healthy Cavs went down 3-1 in the first place to that team in 2016 which was essentially the same roster from a year ago.


I always find it odd when people are so adamant that the Cavs would have won if healthy...

...because the healthy Cavs needed a lot of favorable circumstances to BARELY squeak by essentially the same roster the next year.

Very weird.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#32 » by Openheimer » Mon Mar 1, 2021 8:16 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:
Openheimer wrote:And if Draymond not got suspended would the Cavs the next year comeback from 3-1 down?


ugh....

Would the Raptors won a game against the Warriors in that finals if the Warriors were completely healthy?

That Rockets team was better then the raptors. They were beating the crap out of the Warriors physically with Tucker , Ariz and LMA . That was a bruising bad ass defensive switching team with a lot of tough hombres.. Paul was out playing Curry badly to until he went down.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#33 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:13 pm

Openheimer wrote:And if Draymond not got suspended would the Cavs the next year comeback from 3-1 down?


Minimally having Love and Irving healthy would have given the Cavs more depth. The narrative that Love couldn't have played .vs. the Warriors is silly given the Cavs won it all with him on the floor in 2016. How valuable was he? Fair question, but we can say the same about Bogut. Again, it mostly gets back to depth. More Bogut would have meant less Ezeli. More Irving means, Delly doesn't have to be taken to the hospital.

But who knows, they don't play the games on paper.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#34 » by Warriors Analyst » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:21 pm

I have a lot of thoughts on this. Reposting something I put in a PC board thread.

Well now that it's time to relitigate 2016 for the millionth time, a few thoughts I have:

I find it amusing that when people discuss the Cavs missing Love and Irving in 2015, they ignore that the Cavs blew out the Warriors without Kevin Love in Game 3 of the Finals. I don't think this is a coincidence. Love going down forced Lue to downsize and the 2016 Cavs were deeper than the 2015 Cavs with the addition of Richard Jefferson who was a very effective player at the 4 (this is deeply ironic to me as a Warriors fan who watched him bungle Game 1 of the 2013 WCSF against San Antonio due to Mark Jackson playing him exclusively at the 2).

My memory of the first two games of the series was that the Cavs trapped Steph quite a lot and the Warriors absolutely carved up the Cavs' defense with passing. In Game 1 Steph went 4/15 and Klay went 4/12 but we got 12 points from Iguodala, 20 points from Livingston, and 11 from Barbosa. In Game 2, Steph only played 24 minutes and scored 18 points, but Draymond put up 28 points and we got a balanced scoring output from the bench. I think it's pretty clear that the Cavs couldn't defend the fully healthy Warriors with Kevin Love playing significant minutes. In Game 3, the Cavs blew out the Warriors.

In Game 4 when the Warriors go up 3-1, Love plays 25 minutes off of the bench. In Game 5 with Draymond suspended, Love plays nearly 33 minutes and only scores 2 points. In Game 6, Love plays... 11:55 minutes for -6 and R-Jeff plays 31:52 minutes for +15. In Game 7, Love plays 30 minutes and scores 9 points and has a +/- of +19. Jefferson plays 25 minutes and has two points and a +/- of -8.

I don't think that Love's play is an absolute barometer for the Cavs, but I do feel pretty confident that if Love didn't miss Game 3, the Warriors probably sweep the Cavs by virtue of Lue not stumbling into smaller lineup configurations. But alas.


My general point is that I think Love hurts the Cavs defensively against the Warriors and we can look at the first 4 games of the 2016 series where both teams are healthy of proof of that. The 2015 Cavs didn't have the personnel to go small against the Warriors. They also didn't have the bodies to keep up without Love and Irving, even though I think their game plan was actually really solid, they just wore down and when the Warriors went small, the series was over.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#35 » by A_Biased_Fan » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:25 pm

GhosDini wrote:Would the Cavs have won their ring had Curry and Bogut been healthy and Draymond not been suspended?


Do the 2016 Cavs get a fully healthy Love, Mozgov, and Delly too?
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#36 » by OriginalRed » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:27 pm

rtiff68 wrote:
OriginalRed wrote:Well according to most people especially the Lebron camp, they would have won easily had K Love and Kyrie been healthy.

Which begs the question how the fully healthy Cavs went down 3-1 in the first place to that team in 2016 which was essentially the same roster from a year ago.


I always find it odd when people are so adamant that the Cavs would have won if healthy...

...because the healthy Cavs needed a lot of favorable circumstances to BARELY squeak by essentially the same roster the next year.

Very weird.


It doesn't really make much sense to me either.

It took a near game winning Kyrie Irving three and Draymond suspension to barely win that series for the Cavs but I'm supposed to believe the year before they would have easily beat the Warriors with the same roster? It's not like Golden State in 2016 was playing way better in the Finals.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#37 » by LloydFree » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:32 pm

I don't think Love would have mattered either way. But if Kyrie were available, the Cavs would have waltzed to the title.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#38 » by Rodwilliams » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:36 pm

OriginalRed wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
OriginalRed wrote:Well according to most people especially the Lebron camp, they would have won easily had K Love and Kyrie been healthy.

Which begs the question how the fully healthy Cavs went down 3-1 in the first place to that team in 2016 which was essentially the same roster from a year ago.


I always find it odd when people are so adamant that the Cavs would have won if healthy...

...because the healthy Cavs needed a lot of favorable circumstances to BARELY squeak by essentially the same roster the next year.

Very weird.


It doesn't really make much sense to me either.

It took a near game winning Kyrie Irving three and Draymond suspension to barely win that series for the Cavs but I'm supposed to believe the year before they would have easily beat the Warriors with the same roster? It's not like Golden State in 2016 was playing way better in the Finals.



In 15 the series somehow went six games with Delly being Lebron 2nd best player.

You can spin it how you want but that series didn’t come down to a Kyrie Irving three. It came down to the Warriors being up 3-1 and losing 3 games in a row. The Cavs should’ve never been in a situation where they have a chance to make a game winning shot in game 7 because no team that has been down 3-1 in the Finals has ever came back before. Draymond played game 6 and 7.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#39 » by rtiff68 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 9:50 pm

Rodwilliams wrote:
OriginalRed wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:[/b]

I always find it odd when people are so adamant that the Cavs would have won if healthy...

...because the healthy Cavs needed a lot of favorable circumstances to BARELY squeak by essentially the same roster the next year.

Very weird.


It doesn't really make much sense to me either.

It took a near game winning Kyrie Irving three and Draymond suspension to barely win that series for the Cavs but I'm supposed to believe the year before they would have easily beat the Warriors with the same roster? It's not like Golden State in 2016 was playing way better in the Finals.



In 15 the series somehow went six games with Delly being Lebron 2nd best player.

You can spin it how you want but that series didn’t come down to a Kyrie Irving three. It came down to the Warriors being up 3-1 and losing 3 games in a row. The Cavs should’ve never been in a situation where they have a chance to make a game winning shot in game 7 because no team that has been down 3-1 in the Finals has ever came back before. Draymond played game 6 and 7.


Who is the one spinning here?

In 2016, the Cavs were healthy. The Warriors had injuries. Maybe it was due to his previous injury, or maybe he choked, but either way you slice it Curry had the worst playoff series of his career. Draymond got suspended for a game. Harrison Barnes went 5-31 on wide open shots over the course of Games 5-7. LeBron and Kyrie played out of their minds...

...all of that broke in the Cavs' favor, and they still won by the slimmest of margins. No spin-job changes that fact.

Would the Cavs have won in 2015 had they been healthy? Maybe?

That said, I have no idea how anyone can look at what happened in 2016 and conclude that a fully healthy Cavs team the year before would have decisively beaten the Warriors.
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Re: Had Kyrie and love been healthy would the Warriors won their first ring? 

Post#40 » by art_tatum » Mon Mar 1, 2021 10:37 pm

IF everyone's healthy, the results would b flipped

Cavs 2015
Warriors 2016

I feel like everyone wishes that be the case. Warrior fans would rather win 2016. But then they lose out on KD? So maybe not. I'm curious to know.
Cavs and lebron fans wish they won 2015 and lose 2016 so that KD wouldn't join in 2017. Bc cavs would have legit shots at 2017 and 2018. Maybe lebron even stays

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