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Don't want to sound like I'm making an analogous post to the Gobert one, but after today's game this is warranted.

While I def think Giannis is a great defender, it's all just bc of his length and athleticism. In terms of decision making, he makes so many mistakes and while I've always felt this, his play in the last minute against Memphis today made me post. They were on par to lose this game if not for clutch plays from Middleton and Holiday.

Last minute defensive plays:
- First he has terrible positioning on a Morant drive and fouls him. Ja makes both.
- Then he blatantly goaltends a Dillon Brooks hook shot, and tells the coach to challenge losing a crucial timeout.
- Then Morant drives in last 10s, he's late on help and also fouls (no-call) Morant. If the refs called it, the game was over but they missed the call, Ja made it anyways.

To finish they can't adv the ball bc Giannis wasted the timeout, so Jrue dribbles it up and drains a clutch shot to win the game. Don't get me wrong, Giannis is a great player, I've esp been impressed with his passing but i've seen his make plenty bone-headed defensive plays that cost his team games. One example is in the bubble w the Jimmy Butler jumper where he fouled him and Jimmy won the game. If this team wants a chance, he's gonna have to become a much smarter defender.

On offense it’s embarrassing. The bucks don’t even look for him when the game is on the line. He is that badly under skilled

Giannis calling card is his physical tools, on both ends. For me the biggest knock on his game is that he isnt consistently taking the best decisions both sides of the ball, and his skill level isnt on par with his athleticism in any way, he isnt a great passer, handler or shooter.

Given all that, for all the effort he puts on offense, with his game predicted on athleticism solely, for me he is a great defender, he is very active, probably he is the guy putting the most effort on the defensive end among the top scorers on the league. At least this is the notion I get when I watch him play. Sometimes not even the most physical gifted specimen can overcome bad decisions

Its funny when ppl dont talk about how badly his defense got exposed against Miami. It wasnt just his offense getting shut down. And he committed one of the alltime boneheaded fouls against Jimmy who subsequently won Miami the game at the free throw line

Giannis is prolly the worst Dpoy since Marcus Camby. There were a few better options than him. Now that Brook is older and not as effective a rim protector/post defender (and he was their best defender in those fronts when they were elite defensively) theyre not an elite defense anymore. They have plenty of great defenders for every position around Giannis too

Openheimer wrote:On offense it’s embarrassing. The bucks don’t even look for him when the game is on the line. He is that badly under skilled

I'm guessing you didn't see the Clippers game from this past Sunday.

Good idea, OP. See if you can get shaming Giannis' defense to go viral. That'll end well for the Raptors.

He is the third best defensive player in the league according to RealGM posters.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2056971

He’s really good because he’s pretty switchable, but he’s not really dominant defending any spot in particular, and he’s not a great rim protector because he’s not exceptionally large or explosive from a static position, he needs some run up.

His fluidity and ability to just move will age well like KG though, and his switching and IQ will continually get better, and he’ll continue to be a top notch defender even if he’s not Hakeem or something.

I was really confused as to why he was guarding Lonzo in our matchup, I’d definitely have him check one of the big two. Probably put him on Ingram, who he could maybe completely take out of hsi offense, and let Zion get off against a crowded lane.

Bmaasse wrote:

Openheimer wrote:On offense it’s embarrassing. The bucks don’t even look for him when the game is on the line. He is that badly under skilled

I'm guessing you didn't see the Clippers game from this past Sunday.

The travel? No I watched the grizzlies game. Middleton was the go to guy and holiday hit the game winning shots

1210HM wrote:He is the third best defensive player in the league according to RealGM posters.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2056971

No

KD
Jokic
Embiid
Harden
Lebron
Anthony Davis ( when Healthy)

Are better

He is in the Luca and Curry tier.

Openheimer wrote:

1210HM wrote:He is the third best defensive player in the league according to RealGM posters.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2056971

No

KD
Jokic
Embiid
Harden
Lebron
Anthony Davis ( when Healthy)

Are better

He is in the Luca and Curry tier.

Giannis' defense is in the same level as Curry.

That's the silliest statement I have ever read around here.

None of the fouls refs gave to Ja were actually fouls ,they were gifts,it was the best giannis ,could do without fouling Ja .
Giannis is the best all around defender .

1210HM wrote:

Openheimer wrote:

1210HM wrote:He is the third best defensive player in the league according to RealGM posters.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2056971

No

KD
Jokic
Embiid
Harden
Lebron
Anthony Davis ( when Healthy)

Are better

He is in the Luca and Curry tier.

Giannis' defense is in the same level as Curry.

That's the silliest statement I have ever read around here.

No I meant overall player

Openheimer wrote:

1210HM wrote:

Openheimer wrote:No

KD
Jokic
Embiid
Harden
Lebron
Anthony Davis ( when Healthy)

Are better

He is in the Luca and Curry tier.

Giannis' defense is in the same level as Curry.

That's the silliest statement I have ever read around here.

No I meant overall player

Oh well. So you're just a bad reader.

People complaining that NBA is soft but have they also have the audacity to say that soft contacts like the Morant's last play was a foul lol. Giannis and LeBron recieves harder contacts than that.

NO-KG-AI wrote:He’s really good because he’s pretty switchable, but he’s not really dominant defending any spot in particular, and he’s not a great rim protector because he’s not exceptionally large or explosive from a static position, he needs some run up.

His fluidity and ability to just move will age well like KG though, and his switching and IQ will continually get better, and he’ll continue to be a top notch defender even if he’s not Hakeem or something.

I was really confused as to why he was guarding Lonzo in our matchup, I’d definitely have him check one of the big two. Probably put him on Ingram, who he could maybe completely take out of hsi offense, and let Zion get off against a crowded lane.

I think people need to re-calibrate their ideas of what a good rim protector is. He has averaged 1.5-2 blocks per game.

For a forward that's pretty dang good...I've seen people say the same thing about KG and it makes me realize that they're using elite center standards for power forwards. Most power forwards cannot get over 1.5 blocks per game.

HeartBreakKid wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:He’s really good because he’s pretty switchable, but he’s not really dominant defending any spot in particular, and he’s not a great rim protector because he’s not exceptionally large or explosive from a static position, he needs some run up.

His fluidity and ability to just move will age well like KG though, and his switching and IQ will continually get better, and he’ll continue to be a top notch defender even if he’s not Hakeem or something.

I was really confused as to why he was guarding Lonzo in our matchup, I’d definitely have him check one of the big two. Probably put him on Ingram, who he could maybe completely take out of hsi offense, and let Zion get off against a crowded lane.

I think people need to re-calibrate their ideas of what a good rim protector is. He has averaged 1.5-2 blocks per game.

For a forward that's pretty dang good...I've seen people say the same thing about KG and it makes me realize that they're using elite center standards for power forwards. Most power forwards cannot get over 1.5 blocks per game.

You're an elite rim protector or you're not. If you want to say someone who's a non rim protector still has value then that's different. Kinda like an elite defender for a small guard, but you qualify it. But yeah, Giannis is a good rim protector for a non traditional guy.

I knew the OP was going to be a Raps fan before clicking the post. Toronto fans and their weird obsession with Giannis is something to behold.

dhsilv2 wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:He’s really good because he’s pretty switchable, but he’s not really dominant defending any spot in particular, and he’s not a great rim protector because he’s not exceptionally large or explosive from a static position, he needs some run up.

His fluidity and ability to just move will age well like KG though, and his switching and IQ will continually get better, and he’ll continue to be a top notch defender even if he’s not Hakeem or something.

I was really confused as to why he was guarding Lonzo in our matchup, I’d definitely have him check one of the big two. Probably put him on Ingram, who he could maybe completely take out of hsi offense, and let Zion get off against a crowded lane.

I think people need to re-calibrate their ideas of what a good rim protector is. He has averaged 1.5-2 blocks per game.

For a forward that's pretty dang good...I've seen people say the same thing about KG and it makes me realize that they're using elite center standards for power forwards. Most power forwards cannot get over 1.5 blocks per game.

You're an elite rim protector or you're not. If you want to say someone who's a non rim protector still has value then that's different. Kinda like an elite defender for a small guard, but you qualify it. But yeah, Giannis is a good rim protector for a non traditional guy.

Colloquially people call elite defensive guards elite defenders all the time. You think if I were to say Marcus Smart was an elite defender people would get mad and assume that I am putting him up there with David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon?

Giannis is probably the best shot blocking power forward in the NBA, not including someone like Anthony Davis or Porzingis who play more impactful minutes when they are centers. If you're in the top ten BPG as a PF you're certainly a "great" rim protector.

I feel like that is coming down to semantics at that point. Someone like Kevin Garnett averaged more BPG in a slower pace era than guys like Rudy Gobert and Dwight Howard does yet is pegged as a poor rim protector. That's honestly kind of crazy considering that's not even his primary role on his team - it's like being anal about Jokic's playmaking ability, some guys are such outliers at their positions it feels a bit crazy to harp too much on their position.

Giannis isn't a wall like the top centers but if Giannis isn't a dominant defender because he switches but does not block shots well then what would make someone a dominant defender at PF? Conversely he is a much better defender than someone like Serge Ibaka was in his prime despite being a worse defender. I'm just trying to understand the criticism to why Giannis is not a dominant defender exactly. (I didn't have him as DPOY last year or even in my top 4, just saying I don't think lack of rim protection is one of his weaknesses)

If you are going to call out him fouling defenders, I would like to ask could you point out fouls which are obvious, Both Fouls on Morant were soft and Honestly dont think they were fouls