NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

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Who be's the MVPs?

Giannis Antetokounmpo
57
11%
Steph Curry
36
7%
Luka Doncic
22
4%
Joel Embiid
35
7%
James Harden
37
7%
LeBron James
13
3%
Nikola Jokic
265
53%
Kawhi Leonard
5
1%
Damian Lillard
11
2%
Some other guy (tell us who!)
22
4%
 
Total votes: 503

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1601 » by Sgt Major » Mon May 3, 2021 4:38 am

Naah
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1602 » by YellowBullet » Mon May 3, 2021 4:45 am

MindState wrote:Just as I predicted, Raptors choking down the stretch. Lakers will win this game, the media will be talking about how LeBron is back in the MVP race in the morning.


That aged well...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1603 » by vado » Mon May 3, 2021 4:48 am

If it wasn't for the prolonged covid break last year the Lakers would have broken down with injuries by the playoffs and not won the title
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1604 » by RB34 » Mon May 3, 2021 7:02 am

Crazy to see a lot of media members etc only now starting to realise that Jokic is the MVP. He’s been absolutely elite the entire year.

Now that Steph has cooled down a bit it feels like people are settling for Jokic, when it’s clear he outright deserves it.

What is it about him that makes people want to ignore him?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1605 » by SpreeS » Mon May 3, 2021 9:00 am

Petergrifindor wrote:But Luka has had a better season than Steph, even with the crazy April.


Why has Luka a better season?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1606 » by Janko035 » Mon May 3, 2021 11:05 am

RB34 wrote:Crazy to see a lot of media members etc only now starting to realise that Jokic is the MVP. He’s been absolutely elite the entire year.

Now that Steph has cooled down a bit it feels like people are settling for Jokic, when it’s clear he outright deserves it.

What is it about him that makes people want to ignore him?

Small market, foreigner, white, unathletic AND (unlike Luka) unattractive to boot (this last one plays much bigger role than anyone wants to admit). There's plenty of factors to handicap his chances at marketability and therefore the media's willingness to try to sell him to general audience. He's the kind of player casuals have just as many reasons to want to ignore as true fans of this game have to love him.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1607 » by SpreeS » Mon May 3, 2021 11:20 am

SpreeS wrote:
Petergrifindor wrote:But Luka has had a better season than Steph, even with the crazy April.


Why has Luka a better season?


Curry/Doncic

PER 26.1 25.9
TS .658 .593
WS 7.9 7.4
WS/48 .199 .174
BPM 8.1 7.3
VORP 4.9 4.8
LEBRON 4.83 3.97
LEBRON WINS ADDED 8.6 8.0
ESPN RPM 6.96 2.81
ESPN WINS 16.77 9.11
RAPTOR538 7.0 5.4
RAPTOR538 WAR 9.7 8.5
RAPM 2.13 1.70

Curry is better in all advanced stat. I didnt find atleast one adv stats where Doncic was better...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1608 » by iggymcfrack » Mon May 3, 2021 5:43 pm

Yuri36 wrote:
KGtabake wrote:
Yuri36 wrote:I love Steph but how the hell is he in front of Luka when Mavs are far above GS in the rankings with arguably a worse roster than GS if you take away f Luka and Steph (especially with KP so often injured) and with Luka having overall better, more complete stats than Steph as well as being better defensively?



Dallas doesn't have a worse roster than GS.


Draymond Green alone is a better player than any of the Mavs players not named Doncic, especially with Mavs's 2nd best player being so often injured.
The rest of respective rosters are overall equal.


LOL, not even close. Mavs without Luka on the floor are -1.0, Warriors without Steph are -5.9. Draymond’s nowhere near the impact player he used to be. When energy guys hit 30, they’re nowhere near what they were at 25. Dray + Wiggins are about equal to Zinger + Brunson now. When you get further down the roster, the Mavs have MUCH better depth though. Oubre’s been garbage this year. You could argue that Dallas has like 7 of the next 8 best players.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1609 » by dygaction » Mon May 3, 2021 6:12 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
Yuri36 wrote:
KGtabake wrote:

Dallas doesn't have a worse roster than GS.


Draymond Green alone is a better player than any of the Mavs players not named Doncic, especially with Mavs's 2nd best player being so often injured.
The rest of respective rosters are overall equal.


LOL, not even close. Mavs without Luka on the floor are -1.0, Warriors without Steph are -5.9. Draymond’s nowhere near the impact player he used to be. When energy guys hit 30, they’re nowhere near what they were at 25. Dray + Wiggins are about equal to Zinger + Brunson now. When you get further down the roster, the Mavs have MUCH better depth though. Oubre’s been garbage this year. You could argue that Dallas has like 7 of the next 8 best players.


The problem is Zinger has missed 24 games so far, even more than LeBron or Embiid. His contribution on the court is almost offset by the interruption (on/off the starting lineup) he caused. The Mavs are 12-12 for the 24 games he missed. You may say Klay is out, but the Warriors have a $44M higher payroll to start with. Overall I agree Dallas has slightly better supporting cast, but not by a lot.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1610 » by The_Hater » Mon May 3, 2021 6:18 pm

SpreeS wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Petergrifindor wrote:But Luka has had a better season than Steph, even with the crazy April.


Why has Luka a better season?


Curry/Doncic

PER 26.1 25.9
TS .658 .593
WS 7.9 7.4
WS/48 .199 .174
BPM 8.1 7.3
VORP 4.9 4.8
LEBRON 4.83 3.97
LEBRON WINS ADDED 8.6 8.0
ESPN RPM 6.96 2.81
ESPN WINS 16.77 9.11
RAPTOR538 7.0 5.4
RAPTOR538 WAR 9.7 8.5
RAPM 2.13 1.70

Curry is better in all advanced stat. I didnt find atleast one adv stats where Doncic was better...


Good information, but if the Mavs finish 5th and the Warriors 9th or 10th, it might not matter. Fair or not, players from teams ranked that low always get downgraded in MVP voting. Not to take anything away from the incredible year Curry is having individually.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1611 » by BoatsNZones » Mon May 3, 2021 6:55 pm

Wow, you can still get Jokic at -500. If you like free lunches, there's your free lunch. I'd imagine he gets somewhere between 90-95% of the 1st place votes as is, and that he could sit the rest of the season and still win handily.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1612 » by GSP » Mon May 3, 2021 7:24 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:Wow, you can still get Jokic at -500. If you like free lunches, there's your free lunch. I'd imagine he gets somewhere between 90-95% of the 1st place votes as is, and that he could sit the rest of the season and still win handily.


What site do u use? Hes at -700 right now but LMAO at ppl still discussing this. The race has been long over
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1613 » by Sgt Major » Mon May 3, 2021 7:32 pm

What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1614 » by GSP » Mon May 3, 2021 7:41 pm

Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?


Youd win 14 cents and get back your dollar :lol: :lol:

Hes a massive favorite now even if you bet 100 youd only get back 14.29 + the 100 you put up

For reference to start the season Jokic was +3000 to win Mvp..... if youd bet 100 on those odds you wouldve won 3k and gotten back your 100.... the days of Jokic having those kinds of Mvp odds are over now tho he'll never be that low again till hes old and shot
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1615 » by BoatsNZones » Mon May 3, 2021 7:47 pm

Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?

GSP wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:Wow, you can still get Jokic at -500. If you like free lunches, there's your free lunch. I'd imagine he gets somewhere between 90-95% of the 1st place votes as is, and that he could sit the rest of the season and still win handily.


What site do u use? Hes at -700 right now but LMAO at ppl still discussing this. The race has been long over

I was reading an odd-shark article from last night where they had him at -500. I just checked Bovada and he's -900 currently though (that's my only online account). And with a capped sizing it's not worth the bet at that point. They have Embiid 2nd at +750, Curry 3rd at +1500, CP/Lillard/Giannis at +3500 and Harden/Luka at +5500 (no clue why Harden would have equal odds to Luka, but it's all moot at that point anyway).

RE "What does -700 mean", basically for every 7 dollars you bet, you get back 1 dollar.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1616 » by AleksandarN » Mon May 3, 2021 7:47 pm

Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?


You bet 700 you win 100
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1617 » by Sgt Major » Mon May 3, 2021 8:01 pm

Ah, I see, it's 1.15 translated to European odds. :lol:
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1618 » by Doctor MJ » Mon May 3, 2021 8:52 pm

RB34 wrote:Crazy to see a lot of media members etc only now starting to realise that Jokic is the MVP. He’s been absolutely elite the entire year.

Now that Steph has cooled down a bit it feels like people are settling for Jokic, when it’s clear he outright deserves it.

What is it about him that makes people want to ignore him?


His race for starters.

I'll pause for a second. I know race stuff tends to hit us all like a slap to the face. I want to be clear as a white guy that white guys get the long end of the stick in 99.9% of American culture. White guys, by and large, don't have a right to complain about most things. But there's something quite real in play here.

People are inclined to say they're "skeptical of Euros", but since Euros are the only white people who actually play well nowadays, I think race is a thing.

This represents a fundamental flip from how the game was seen in the '60s when if a comparison was at all close, tie went to the white guy every single time. Back then there was a type of racism based around "playing the game the right way" or "playing the game like a pro" which basically meant that if you didn't have all the fundamentals college coaches used, they there was something wrong with you.

What about now? I mean, people just don't believe white guys, or any other race, can compete with the top Black athletes.

I'll even go so far as to say that when Nash won the MVP, you had racist basketball analysts proclaiming "Racism!" at the idea that a white guy could be better than a past-prime Shaq, and I've had encounters recently with people making clear some people never got past that.

There's additional stuff though:

1. Unlike Luka Doncic, he wasn't anointed as a top tier prospect from the get go. So while Luka's whiteness did drop him to the 3rd pick, once he became a superstar so quickly, people largely bought in. The groundwork was laid prior to this year ready to give Luka the MVP this year, and had he had a year analogous to Jokic this year, he'd have had far less push-back than Jokic has had.

2. People literally don't understand Jokic because he's so unique. Vastly more unique than Luka, for example. Luka largely plays LeBron-ball. Jokic? No had played at all close to the same style of play since Walton in the '70s - which most fans around today weren't around for back then - and Walton wasn't in Jokic's league as an offensive player.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1619 » by Kurtz » Mon May 3, 2021 9:28 pm

GSP wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?


Youd win 14 cents and get back your dollar :lol: :lol:

Hes a massive favorite now even if you bet 100 youd only get back 14.29 + the 100 you put up

For reference to start the season Jokic was +3000 to win Mvp..... if youd bet 100 on those odds you wouldve won 3k and gotten back your 100.... the days of Jokic having those kinds of Mvp odds are over now tho he'll never be that low again till hes old and shot


Yep - not gonna see that sort of value again.

My way too early prediction for the best value plays next year will be Tatum/Zion at around +4000 and Luka at around +700. Curry will be at around +1000, which is interesting too.

If Giannis makes it to the finals this year, we might see value with him as well next year.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1620 » by Cubbies2120 » Mon May 3, 2021 9:32 pm

Kurtz wrote:
GSP wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?


Youd win 14 cents and get back your dollar :lol: :lol:

Hes a massive favorite now even if you bet 100 youd only get back 14.29 + the 100 you put up

For reference to start the season Jokic was +3000 to win Mvp..... if youd bet 100 on those odds you wouldve won 3k and gotten back your 100.... the days of Jokic having those kinds of Mvp odds are over now tho he'll never be that low again till hes old and shot


Yep - not gonna see that sort of value again.

My way too early prediction for the best value plays next year will be Tatum/Zion at around +4000 and Luka at around +700. Curry will be at around +1000, which is interesting too.

If Giannis makes it to the finals this year, we might see value with him as well next year.


https://imgur.com/a/TCcwHKI :nod:

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