NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

Moderators: jamaalstar21, infinite11285, BombsquadSammy, ken6199, Domejandro, bwgood77, Dirk, zimpy27, KingDavid

Who be's the MVPs?

Giannis Antetokounmpo
57
11%
Steph Curry
36
7%
Luka Doncic
22
4%
Joel Embiid
35
7%
James Harden
37
7%
LeBron James
13
3%
Nikola Jokic
265
53%
Kawhi Leonard
5
1%
Damian Lillard
11
2%
Some other guy (tell us who!)
22
4%
 
Total votes: 503

User avatar
Kurtz
RealGM
Posts: 11,981
And1: 10,293
Joined: Aug 07, 2002
Location: Toronto

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1621 » by Kurtz » Mon May 3, 2021 9:47 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
GSP wrote:
Youd win 14 cents and get back your dollar :lol: :lol:

Hes a massive favorite now even if you bet 100 youd only get back 14.29 + the 100 you put up

For reference to start the season Jokic was +3000 to win Mvp..... if youd bet 100 on those odds you wouldve won 3k and gotten back your 100.... the days of Jokic having those kinds of Mvp odds are over now tho he'll never be that low again till hes old and shot


Yep - not gonna see that sort of value again.

My way too early prediction for the best value plays next year will be Tatum/Zion at around +4000 and Luka at around +700. Curry will be at around +1000, which is interesting too.

If Giannis makes it to the finals this year, we might see value with him as well next year.


https://imgur.com/a/TCcwHKI :nod:


Not bad :).

Yeah, I think quite a few of us saw that value early on when he showed up fit in preseason and made a few $$.
Image
Cubbies2120
Pro Prospect
Posts: 844
And1: 1,314
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Location: MD
       

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1622 » by Cubbies2120 » Mon May 3, 2021 10:45 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Yep - not gonna see that sort of value again.

My way too early prediction for the best value plays next year will be Tatum/Zion at around +4000 and Luka at around +700. Curry will be at around +1000, which is interesting too.

If Giannis makes it to the finals this year, we might see value with him as well next year.


https://imgur.com/a/TCcwHKI :nod:


Not bad :).

Yeah, I think quite a few of us saw that value early on when he showed up fit in preseason and made a few $$.


That was it - him showing up fit instead of working himself into fitness during the season was what created the value I think
eathb_au
Analyst
Posts: 3,206
And1: 813
Joined: May 30, 2010

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1623 » by eathb_au » Mon May 3, 2021 10:48 pm

Read on Twitter


One of my favourite comments is that a lot of players can pass out of double teams like Jokic can
cdubbz
RealGM
Posts: 11,542
And1: 1,923
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Oakland
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1624 » by cdubbz » Tue May 4, 2021 3:10 am

Steph Curry!!!!
Kuya wrote: a good agent collects all the data, including quotes to give them leverage in contract deals.
Ballerhogger
RealGM
Posts: 30,731
And1: 8,792
Joined: Jul 06, 2014
       

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1625 » by Ballerhogger » Tue May 4, 2021 5:04 am

In loss Jokic put up 32 points 9 boards . He fouls way too much and the lakers exploited that again
Infinite Llamas
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,464
And1: 13,884
Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Location: Land of Llamas
   

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1626 » by Infinite Llamas » Tue May 4, 2021 5:53 am

Ballerhogger wrote:In loss Jokic put up 32 points 9 boards . He fouls way too much and the lakers exploited that again


Same old story. Gasol/Dwight whoever can manhandle Jokic and no call. Whilst if one dares to breathe on AD he falls down and gets a call.

If only Malone could write letters to the league with the same pizzazz that the Lakers letter writers have perfected.
Gerald Green Loves LLamas!
BelgradeNugget
Senior
Posts: 587
And1: 552
Joined: Jun 16, 2018
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1627 » by BelgradeNugget » Tue May 4, 2021 7:03 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:In loss Jokic put up 32 points 9 boards . He fouls way too much and the lakers exploited that again


Same old story. Gasol/Dwight whoever can manhandle Jokic and no call. Whilst if one dares to breathe on AD he falls down and gets a call.

If only Malone could write letters to the league with the same pizzazz that the Lakers letter writers have perfected.


Maybe Denver should offer a trade to Lakers. 1st round pick for their letter writer. :D
Perseus1966
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,367
And1: 526
Joined: Nov 29, 2018
   

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1628 » by Perseus1966 » Tue May 4, 2021 7:10 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:In loss Jokic put up 32 points 9 boards . He fouls way too much and the lakers exploited that again


Same old story. Gasol/Dwight whoever can manhandle Jokic and no call. Whilst if one dares to breathe on AD he falls down and gets a call.

If only Malone could write letters to the league with the same pizzazz that the Lakers letter writers have perfected.

89-91 and Gasol fouls Jokic at least 3 times ...
I want RoLo to be my son in law!
Johnny Firpo
RealGM
Posts: 12,349
And1: 7,132
Joined: Apr 17, 2009
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1629 » by Johnny Firpo » Tue May 4, 2021 7:16 am

Seriously, how many free throws Jokic should have gotten? 16, 18, 20? The officiating was an absolute joke.
Tomjas
Starter
Posts: 2,193
And1: 1,923
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1630 » by Tomjas » Tue May 4, 2021 10:43 am

Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on
User avatar
psimanic1
Starter
Posts: 2,132
And1: 989
Joined: Jul 14, 2014

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1631 » by psimanic1 » Tue May 4, 2021 12:22 pm

Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

20, probably not, but few more for sure, even when Marc was guarding him.. Refs just let a lot of hits on Jokic, I hope that will change in POs when he gets his MVP award
bballfan1three3
Freshman
Posts: 72
And1: 60
Joined: Feb 10, 2021

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1632 » by bballfan1three3 » Tue May 4, 2021 12:35 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

20, probably not, but few more for sure, even when Marc was guarding him.. Refs just let a lot of hits on Jokic, I hope that will change in POs when he gets his MVP award

Doubt it curry gets manhandled still and he's a relatively smaller guard who is basically the face of the league and won MVP 2x. Not sure what sort of system the refs are using in their brains
Peregrine01
Veteran
Posts: 2,544
And1: 2,202
Joined: Sep 12, 2012

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1633 » by Peregrine01 » Tue May 4, 2021 4:12 pm

psimanic1 wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

20, probably not, but few more for sure, even when Marc was guarding him.. Refs just let a lot of hits on Jokic, I hope that will change in POs when he gets his MVP award


I'm not sure the reason why Jokic doesn't get as many calls as he deserves is particular to him. I think it's more related to how he plays. Refs just don't tend to call much fouls on post-ups compared to face ups and drives. The contact with arms and limbs isn't as obvious and doesn't force reflexive whistle-blowing like it does when a guy drives, gets incidental contact and flails.

It's really a fault of how reffing is done period. With that said, Jokic should watch more Tim Duncan tape. Timmy used to do the swim through move on post-ups often and was rewarded almost every time with a trip to the line. Jokic generally keeps the ball too high for opponent hands, which helps to avoid strips but doesn't get him to the line very much.
MindState
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,312
And1: 1,638
Joined: Jul 05, 2018

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1634 » by MindState » Tue May 4, 2021 5:34 pm

I cant believe Steph has this talentless team at the 8th seed in a stacked western conference while losing 3 starters to season ending injuries this year.

Absolutely incredible.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 48,464
And1: 55,260
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1635 » by clyde21 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:06 pm

Sgt Major wrote:What does -700 mean? If you place $1 on Jokic right now, how much do you get back?


means that you have to put $700 to win $100
#BLM #FREEPALESTINE
User avatar
levon
General Manager
Posts: 8,601
And1: 14,097
Joined: Aug 04, 2017

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1636 » by levon » Tue May 4, 2021 7:14 pm

Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

Jokic got 4 free throws awarded to him yesterday on non-shooting fouls. Without those, he'd have 28 points on 28 shots. There was also a blatant blocking foul on the AD dunk attempt where Jokic was in the restricted area that would've given him his second early in the first quarter, the same foul that was called on AG (correctly) later in the game. In the series against the Lakers, he was putting up 21 and getting in foul trouble on the regular. Maybe there's a pattern there about how the Lakers defend and attack the Nuggets, and it's not a reflection of Jokic as a player, and it's not some conspiracy against him either? Occam's razor?

It's become increasingly difficult for me to compartmentalize my player fandom with the annoying fans of other players, because the player starts to feed into the entitlement. Like I love Jokic and Doncic, but HATE it when they go too far on foul phishing. There's this toxic feedback loop with the commentators and the fans and local reporters too that makes it worse. See Denver commentators for the biggest unabashed homerism in the league.

Maybe I'm just too old for this in basketball fandom years.
FinnTheHuman
Analyst
Posts: 3,742
And1: 2,697
Joined: Nov 22, 2012
   

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1637 » by FinnTheHuman » Tue May 4, 2021 7:54 pm

levon wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

Jokic got 4 free throws awarded to him yesterday on non-shooting fouls. Without those, he'd have 28 points on 28 shots. There was also a blatant blocking foul on the AD dunk attempt where Jokic was in the restricted area that would've given him his second early in the first quarter, the same foul that was called on AG (correctly) later in the game. In the series against the Lakers, he was putting up 21 and getting in foul trouble on the regular. Maybe there's a pattern there about how the Lakers defend and attack the Nuggets, and it's not a reflection of Jokic as a player, and it's not some conspiracy against him either? Occam's razor?

It's become increasingly difficult for me to compartmentalize my player fandom with the annoying fans of other players, because the player starts to feed into the entitlement. Like I love Jokic and Doncic, but HATE it when they go too far on foul phishing. There's this toxic feedback loop with the commentators and the fans and local reporters too that makes it worse. See Denver commentators for the biggest unabashed homerism in the league.

Maybe I'm just too old for this in basketball fandom years.




You don't see how the whole idea of defending Jokic is to rough him up as much as you can, and hope to get away with it? The idea is literally to foul him repeatedly and get away with it so that he can't play basketball almost at all. And this is not an exaggeration. Any player plays conservatively when he sees that refs are gonna let him get beat up without whistle, if you ever played basketball you'd know that. If I'd have to put my money on which team Jokic will be playing when he gets seriously injured, I'd easily put it on the Lakers, because your guys don't have to give a **** about how they're defending him.


Look at the 1st situation, Marc Gasol is literally rushing chest-first into Jokic and Jokic is not playing with his back turned there in order for to make it legal. And Marc is hacking him on top of that. Easy missed foul call.

2nd situation Jokic is shooting and Marc is entering his shooting space, and Jokic lands on his foot and falls to the ground because of it. Another easy missed call.

5th situation Marc is literally pushing Jokic chest-first again, and refs again blatantly swallow the whistle. Another missed call.

7th situation again Marc blatantly shoving Jokic with his body and arms to get the ball out of his hands, and no whistle. A disaster.

And that one foul in the end could've easily been flagrant 1, you can dislocate someone's shoulder by grabbing him by the arms from behind like that.

This is not legit defense, this is Marc Gasol and the refs with some great teamwork in order to get Lebron out of the play-in.

There would be no non-shooting fouls on Jokic if Marc Gasol got fouled out because of all these fouls on top of the 4 fouls he already had, so Jokic would be able to destroy your smaller guys who wouldn't be able to stop him even while playing illegal defense.



People are revolted because the refs swallow the whistle only for the Lakers in these situations with Jokic, no other team gets away with this. This is the same way refs allowed Dwight, Javale and Morris to defend him last year in the playoffs.

Lebron goes implicitly complaining to the media that he's gonna end up in the play-ins, and refs get the message that it's time to give them a very an unfair whistle to bail them out of the situation. Whenever the Lakers need a W, refs are there to help them out.

Only biased Laker fans like you don't see this, but please realize that we have easily accessible free videos that show what a clown fiesta the whole Lakers-Lebron-League trifecta really is, and get out of here with your trash take.
BelgradeNugget
Senior
Posts: 587
And1: 552
Joined: Jun 16, 2018
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1638 » by BelgradeNugget » Tue May 4, 2021 8:16 pm

levon wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

Jokic got 4 free throws awarded to him yesterday on non-shooting fouls. Without those, he'd have 28 points on 28 shots. There was also a blatant blocking foul on the AD dunk attempt where Jokic was in the restricted area that would've given him his second early in the first quarter, the same foul that was called on AG (correctly) later in the game. In the series against the Lakers, he was putting up 21 and getting in foul trouble on the regular. Maybe there's a pattern there about how the Lakers defend and attack the Nuggets, and it's not a reflection of Jokic as a player, and it's not some conspiracy against him either? Occam's razor?

It's become increasingly difficult for me to compartmentalize my player fandom with the annoying fans of other players, because the player starts to feed into the entitlement. Like I love Jokic and Doncic, but HATE it when they go too far on foul phishing. There's this toxic feedback loop with the commentators and the fans and local reporters too that makes it worse. See Denver commentators for the biggest unabashed homerism in the league.

Maybe I'm just too old for this in basketball fandom years.


The main problem with you and some of the Lakers fans here is that you don't know how the rest of the world works. You see NBA from your perspective and think it is how it should be. Every call should go your way because it is the right way. Well it is not. Privileged people think it is normal and it is how it should be. Did it ever occurred strange to you that you Lakers fans are arguing here 90% of the time about the way Jokic is officiated with non Nuggets fans?
User avatar
Kurtz
RealGM
Posts: 11,981
And1: 10,293
Joined: Aug 07, 2002
Location: Toronto

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1639 » by Kurtz » Tue May 4, 2021 8:19 pm

levon wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

Jokic got 4 free throws awarded to him yesterday on non-shooting fouls. Without those, he'd have 28 points on 28 shots. There was also a blatant blocking foul on the AD dunk attempt where Jokic was in the restricted area that would've given him his second early in the first quarter, the same foul that was called on AG (correctly) later in the game. In the series against the Lakers, he was putting up 21 and getting in foul trouble on the regular. Maybe there's a pattern there about how the Lakers defend and attack the Nuggets, and it's not a reflection of Jokic as a player, and it's not some conspiracy against him either? Occam's razor?

It's become increasingly difficult for me to compartmentalize my player fandom with the annoying fans of other players, because the player starts to feed into the entitlement. Like I love Jokic and Doncic, but HATE it when they go too far on foul phishing. There's this toxic feedback loop with the commentators and the fans and local reporters too that makes it worse. See Denver commentators for the biggest unabashed homerism in the league.

Maybe I'm just too old for this in basketball fandom years.


Is this the "blatant" blocking foul that you're talking about?



Jokic is in the restricted area with the back of his foot - but he's allowed to be there if the offensive player initiates contact with his foot or knee, in which case it's a charge.

I've watched the replay a few times now and I'm still not certain if it's a block or charge. Either way I don't think this was a blatant non-call by the ref.
Image
BelgradeNugget
Senior
Posts: 587
And1: 552
Joined: Jun 16, 2018
 

Re: NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21) 

Post#1640 » by BelgradeNugget » Tue May 4, 2021 8:30 pm

Kurtz wrote:
levon wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Jeez guys

Jokic is a very good player but Gasol is a tough matchup who has embarrassed Embiid

Jokic didn’t deserve 20 fts

Nuggets lost

Get over it and move on

Jokic got 4 free throws awarded to him yesterday on non-shooting fouls. Without those, he'd have 28 points on 28 shots. There was also a blatant blocking foul on the AD dunk attempt where Jokic was in the restricted area that would've given him his second early in the first quarter, the same foul that was called on AG (correctly) later in the game. In the series against the Lakers, he was putting up 21 and getting in foul trouble on the regular. Maybe there's a pattern there about how the Lakers defend and attack the Nuggets, and it's not a reflection of Jokic as a player, and it's not some conspiracy against him either? Occam's razor?

It's become increasingly difficult for me to compartmentalize my player fandom with the annoying fans of other players, because the player starts to feed into the entitlement. Like I love Jokic and Doncic, but HATE it when they go too far on foul phishing. There's this toxic feedback loop with the commentators and the fans and local reporters too that makes it worse. See Denver commentators for the biggest unabashed homerism in the league.

Maybe I'm just too old for this in basketball fandom years.


Is this the "blatant" blocking foul that you're talking about?



Jokic is in the restricted area with the back of his foot - but he's allowed to be there if the offensive player initiates contact with his foot or knee, in which case it's a charge.

I've watched the replay a few times now and I'm still not certain if it's a block or charge. Either way I don't think this was a blatant non-call by the ref.

I just don't understand what is Jokic supposed to do here? Move out of the way? Is it forbidden for defensive player to be in restricted area? He didn't move in AD's way and fall down to try to draw charge. He was there before AD tried a dunk. It was good non call. It can't be offensive foul on AD because Jokic is in restricted area, and it is not foul on Jokic because he didn't move into AD's way.

Return to The General Board