New Poll: Were the Raps asking too much, or was it Kyle?

[Hoop Heavy]

So, Kyle Lowry wasn't traded. Lots of people talking about why. I haven't seen much discussion about Kyle's statement of what he wanted to stay was too much. Two years for 50m. Is that too steep, or are all the prices about to go up and that's more like what 20m a year was two years ago?

Is Kyle Lowry still the guy who scored (what?) the first eleven points of the clinching title game two years ago? Is he 80% of that guy? We talk about "Playoff P", is there such an opposite such entity - a "Playoff K" - where he goes nuts and takes it up one more notch using sheer will - not height, athleticism, or youth - to win? Will we get to see "Playoff K" this year anyway - as the Raps go on a long but ultimately unsuccessful run in the playoffs?

He still leads the NBA in charges taken. He still shoots something like 40% from 3. He still has a lethal transition 3 that just breaks the spirit of the opposing team. He's maybe better than ever at dropping dimes - if the affectionately named "insurance pylon" (Aaron Baynes) didn't seem to blow half his dunk attempts, Kyle might even be averaging a double double this year.

He's still got a nose for big plays at big times, but sure his regular season numbers look like they are slowly decreasing.

So two years from now, is 25m too much for 80% of the guy who is maybe now 80% that championship guy?

I think with the level of respect and love that the team, the fans and "Goat-tor" all share, there can be a meeting in the middle.
How about 3 years for 48m with a descending scale?

Still Kyle needs to look people in the eye and say "I know the team needs to move on and I want to help that happen."

To me, that looks like him being 6th man next year and playing 30 minutes or less, and then 8th man the year after and playing 20 minutes or less, and then on the final farewell tour being more of player/coach and maybe just playing the first 5 minutes of the fourth quarter (match up dependent ... if he can keep up with the kids). Is Kyle ready to go gracefully like Tim Duncan did, does he want too much, or once again is the average price about to go up making him seem completely reasonable?

"Discuss amongst yourselfs"

Thanks for taking the poll. I left two options, so you can see two main causes involved

[VancouverRaps]

Cop out answer is probably a combination of a few things. Raps demands + salary matching Lowry’s cap hit + Lowry’s extension ask were all hurdles. Not to mention that Masai, Riley and Morey are all calculated guys, the negotiations were probably pretty tough both ways.

I think we all know Riley was probably trying to leverage the Rockets and Raps against each other until the very last minute, the dude knows how to play his cards.

And Masai probably figured that Morey would be more motivated to trade for Lowry if Riley landed Dipo. Instead Morey pivoted to George Hill and the rest is history.

[76thBearCub]

Yea, its some of both.

[Roco14]

If he was overvalued by Masai, then it was only slightly so. Kyle has already proven himself to be good enough to be a championship point guard; he would make the Lakers the favorites (or stronger, if you have them as favorites already). The Sixers & Heat would have improved their odds to make the finals by quite a bit. He's shown that he is aging gracefully too.

Kyle Lowry is the type of guy that is easy to dismiss or be hesitant to trade/pay for UNTIL he's on your team. Unless you've watched a significant chunk of the last 7 years of his career, it's easy to say "meh 6'0, 35 year old point guard no thanks". He makes the whole team better. A good second option, a tremendous third option.

[jbk1234]

It's both. If Lowry signaled a willingness to sign a two year deal at $10M per, his trade value would've been higher.

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[LakersSoul]

Sum of both plus Lowry’s age. He is not a young cat. I don’t think many teams want to give up youth then have to resign Lowry for $25 million per year.

Nothing against Lowry as he is good and will add value but too steep of a price. For the Lakers, they can improve much more by adding a center Drummond, Aldridge, Whiteside for vet minimum than moving from Schroder to Lowry by meeting Lowry/Toronto’s demands.

Just facts and I don’t want Toronto fans calling these post “idiot” posts.

[Dr Aki]

Masai just mostly Ainged himself

Also, Schroder and KCP made 28.0 mil together, Lowry makes 30.5 mil. The Lakers were 1.5 mil below the hard cap, and that's with 2 open roster spots.

The Lakers most likely required Toronto to take Wes Matthews (3.6 mil) in the trade to make the trade work and give the Lakers the required room under the hard cap to sign 4 minimum guys for the rest of the season.

Then you're asking the Lakers to give up a 27yo, a 28yo and a 20yo, all starters/rotation guys, for a 35yo asking for a 50/2 extension, the Lakers are dying for extra athleticism as it already is. Vogel's not going to asking Lowry to chase around the premier guards/wings while Lebron's doing all the playmaking in the playoffs

[VancouverRaps]

Masai just mostly Ainged himself

I think if he was negotiating against less stingy GM’s, he would’ve got what he wanted. Lowry is very possibly a Sixer right now if Brand was the one doing the negotiating yesterday.

[LakersSoul]

Just look at Miami’s package deal for Oladipo.

As for 76ers, They prefer to go 2 tiers down and sign someone like Hill than pay up for Lowry.

[Optms]

He's old. So damn right they were asking too much.

You don't trade away young players for 35 year old fossils. Yeah, I get it, Lebron isn't young but its still stupid to blindly throw away assets for an ancient rental. Masai had zero leverage. He bent over the Spurs and he thinks he can do the same to everyone now.

[sixers4real]

As a Sixers fan I’m so glad we didn’t make a trade for Lowry. I thought losing Green and Thybulle, but adding Lowry does not put us in the same tier as Nets, Lakers, Clippers.

Answering your question, both. 50 M for 2 years is a lot, and picks + Maxey + Green + Thybulle is way too much.

[DCasey91]

Market surrounding Lowry sets the value. So essentially what they wanted was too much initially.
Leverage was on the other side not the Raptors side.

Looking at the return for Vucevic should have told them something.

Heat and the 76ers had fair deals at the end of the trade deadline if the trade packages were correct.

Your not getting multiple 1sts.

Lakers/76ers are hard capped so resigning at 2/50 is a risk for both parties.

[DrCoach]

Well one of these teams cost themselves a chance at a ring

[LakersSoul]

As a Sixers fan I’m so glad we didn’t make a trade for Lowry. I thought losing Green and Thybulle, but adding Lowry does not put us in the same tier as Nets, Lakers, Clippers.

Answering your question, both. 50 M for 2 years is a lot, and picks + Maxey + Green + Thybulle is way too much.

Yeah, I think Masai was pinning the three teams and hoped ones would cave.

76ers went with Hill.
Miami went with Oladipo.
Lakers said no thanks.

Now Toronto is left holding their aging star whom they don’t want to extend.

[Johnny Bball]

Sorry..,.but no team offered a First round pick or decent prospect (hollinger) and we are asking if this is because the raptors asked too much? Really?.

It’s so easily on Lowry’s out of touch salary demands.

[sixers4real]

Well one of these teams cost themselves a chance at a ring

Or all of them think they still have a chance at ring but with better assets going forward.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Seems like those teams were fine paying him, but not the Raptors. They could have balked at his contract demand long before the deadline eclipsed.

The Raptors had him appropriately priced. Best trade chip on the market and the price for a title run should be expensive.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai just mostly Ainged himself

Also, Schroder and KCP made 28.0 mil together, Lowry makes 30.5 mil. The Lakers were 1.5 mil below the hard cap, and that's with 2 open roster spots.

The Lakers most likely required Toronto to take Wes Matthews (3.6 mil) in the trade to make the trade work and give the Lakers the required room under the hard cap to sign 4 minimum guys for the rest of the season.

Then you're asking the Lakers to give up a 27yo, a 28yo and a 20yo, all starters/rotation guys, for a 35yo asking for a 50/2 extension, the Lakers are dying for extra athleticism as it already is. Vogel's not going to asking Lowry to chase around the premier guards/wings while Lebron's doing all the playmaking in the playoffs

Dude the raptors don’t want an overpaid KCP taking up cap space. They can just let Lowry expire instead. That’s just a negative value trade for the raptors.

[trickshot]

It's both. If Lowry signaled a willingness to sign a two year deal at $10M per, his trade value would've been higher.

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Yeah I feel like if we could take out Lowry's 2/50m demand he would be on a contender right now. Would be hot commodity if he was willing to take even 16-20m

[jbk1234]

Seems like those teams were fine paying him, but not the Raptors. They could have balked at his contract demand long before the deadline eclipsed.

The Raptors had him appropriately priced. Best trade chip on the market and the price for a title run should be expensive.

If no one is offering to purchase your 35-year old car for your list price, it's not the entire market of would-be buyers who are wrong.

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