David Griffin Needs To Be Fired

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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#41 » by evilpimp972 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:39 am

DTP wrote:I'm super glad none of you are actually NBA owners...there's like no patience at all. Yes, New Orleans has underachieved this season but the squad is still very, very young and has plenty of time to grow together. Small market teams have to operate differently....its not like they can just go out and outspend everyone or stars are lining up to force trades to New Orleans.....ya gotta be patient. A couple of years ago Denver didn't have the best balanced roster but over time they've done a great job of building, NO can do the same thing.

I personally would've held on to Jrue but I understand them feeling like he didnt fit their timeline. If they wanted to really compete this season, they wouldn't have traded Jrue. I do agree the Adams deal was a big risk but putting a "defensive center" next to Zion was a priority, so I can at least understand why they thought it could work. I also don't understand the Lonzo thing...he seems like a perfect #3 guy for them to me.

What patience are you talking about when they gave up frp to get Adams? They thought they could at least be decent right away, oh and don't forget how it went down with AD...patience right?
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#42 » by Domejandro » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:39 am

The only major mistake is Steven Adams, but honestly, that mistake was catastrophic.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#43 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:47 am

clyde21 wrote:imagine this death line up for New Orleans

Jrue
Lonzo
Ingram
Hunter
Zion

:o


Yup, thats the thing. Add Hunter or Garland to this Pels team and the future automatically looks a lot brighter. Hunter is exactly what this Pels team needs, a big physical versatile defensive wing that can also shoot it. Or with Garland you got a damn good shooting guard that can play off of Zion and Ingram, and can run the PnR a little as well. Slide Lonzo to the 2 on defense, that would work and if it didnt and they still wanted to move Lonzo. Well moving him becomes a little easier because you know you got Garland.

And if we want to go down this rabbit hole (not even bashing Griffin on this part, because too many stretches). But say they still did the trade to get #8 and #17. Cam Johnson at 8 (he went 11th) and Brandon Clarke or even Thybulle at 17. That would be a much better situation as well. Just take what Cam is doing right now in PHX and plug that into NO, that would be a huge plus for the Pels. Legit size and shooting on the perimeter (something they dont have outside of Ingram). Then Thybulle or Clarke, either one gets you a defensive hound. Again something this roster could really use going forward.

Then with the Jrue thing, what about flipping him for a player instead of draft picks 4-6 years away. Im sure they couldve got a good player in his mid 20s that wouldve fit with this Pels team going forward.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#44 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:54 am

5paceman wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
5paceman wrote:Regarding Adams, they had money to be spent with so many young players, and his contract goes down $10M next season. For a young rebuilding team, I think a true workhorse/team center like Adams gives the team and guys like Hayes and Zion a baseline for the hard and less appreciated work that needs to be done.


Between Adams and Bledsoe, theyre taking up 35 million in the cap next year. Take that away, they would be at 56 million dollars of cap taken up as a team. So they could be looking at around 60 million in cap room this summer. There is a ton of things a young team can do with that kind of cap room. They could sign multiple rotation guys that fit their roster around Zion and Ingram (like what the Hawks did with Galo and Bogdan). And having that much cap room and flexibility is always a good thing, you never know what kind of opportunities may come up. Also that flexibility becomes that much harder to create after this summer if they decide to match whatever offer Lonzo gets (or they let him walk for nothing).


Well things could happen that change that 35m. And I just don't know if a Galo and Bogdan helps them develop as a young team, seems more win now mode. Certainly gives you more firepower, but if you aren't competing anyway, I like defense for a rebuilding team. That side of the ball starts at the 5.


I mean building a winning culture and getting playoff experience is a good thing for a young team. Its not like Galo and Bogdan is hurting the progression of the young players, its still a team built around its young players, but they had the cap space to bring in vets that fit and help them start to win some games.

The Hawks should be exactly what the Pels should be looking to do. The Hawks is exactly why a young team having cap flexibility is a really good thing. They were able to grab a guy like Capela, they were also able to sign vets like Galo and Bogdan. Those are smart moves that all fit around that young roster.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#45 » by Plutonashfan » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:57 am

Leslie Forman wrote:What, the guy who wanted Anthony Bennett isn't any good at his job? Shocking.

Wrong GM
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#46 » by heezyo2o » Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:58 am

How are you finding enough playing time for deandre hunter with a healthy zion, ingram and all the guards they have
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#47 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:05 am

heezyo2o wrote:How are you finding enough playing time for deandre hunter with a healthy zion, ingram and all the guards they have

Not that hard.

Lonzo
Ingram
Hunter
Zion
Adams

I mean its not like they would be worse defensively with this lineup than what they're currently trotting out. Plus Ingram defends guards better than he defends big forwards, Ingram can slide to the 2 with no problem.

Kira coming in to play minutes behind Ball and Hart doing what Hart does and plays backup minutes for the 2 and the 3.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#48 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:17 am

I pushed back in November when people were trying to claim he was some sort of genius. This roster never made any sense and it couldn’t be worse for the development of Zion and Ingram. No floor spacing, overrated or bad defenders all over the floor, overvaluing Adams when centers like him are dime a dozen. It’s a bad situation. I was hopeful for Stan because I do like that dude but it’s clear he isn’t a great fit either stylistically.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#49 » by vxmike » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:29 am

jbk1234 wrote:They should've dumped Bledsoe on OKC in the Adams trade, and if that wasn't an option with them giving up a 1st already, then they shouldn't have made it. Also, I hated the Adams extension. But, the Jrue trade was a no brainer.

I think Hayes and NAW are going to be fine though. I'd probably match Ball and attach a late first to Bledsoe.

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I’m an Adams fan just not on that roster and definitely not without dumping Bledsoe as you mention.

Statistically most FRPs are busts so I’m not gonna judge him harshly if Hayes and/or NAW don’t pan out.

The Jrue trade was solid, but he should have pushed for Ilyasova/Wilson instead of Bledsoe’s awful deal. Even demanding Lopez would have been a good fit next to Zion.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#50 » by naabzor » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:11 am

Eh you still have to factor in that no one want to play for the pelicans.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#51 » by Mister Ze » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:23 am

They cheaped out on paying Holiday an extension and now they're paying Bledsoe and Adams 72 million over the next 2 years - makes almost no sense.

Holiday - Ingram - Zion is a pretty good core to build around. I agree Griffin blew it.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#52 » by shangrila » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:32 am

DTP wrote:I'm super glad none of you are actually NBA owners...there's like no patience at all. Yes, New Orleans has underachieved this season but the squad is still very, very young and has plenty of time to grow together. Small market teams have to operate differently....its not like they can just go out and outspend everyone or stars are lining up to force trades to New Orleans.....ya gotta be patient. A couple of years ago Denver didn't have the best balanced roster but over time they've done a great job of building, NO can do the same thing.

I personally would've held on to Jrue but I understand them feeling like he didnt fit their timeline. If they wanted to really compete this season, they wouldn't have traded Jrue. I do agree the Adams deal was a big risk but putting a "defensive center" next to Zion was a priority, so I can at least understand why they thought it could work. I also don't understand the Lonzo thing...he seems like a perfect #3 guy for them to me.

They needed to prioritise spacing. That's the issue with the Adams trade.

Zion is already one of the best interior scorers we've ever seen, at least from an efficiency standpoint. You don't undercut something like that by getting a rim running C, and you especially don't extend Adams before you see how he works with Zion.

I'll agree that all of their issues don't rest solely with Griffin but that Adams trade, from start to finish, never made sense and still doesn't.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#53 » by slicedbread2 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:32 am

Well I can't say I'm surprised. Personally, they need time to properly gel, but there is a lot of evidence pointing out that Griffin may be out of his depth here. I'll play devil's advocate here:

1) 2019 draft night. The draft is a crap shoot and you really have no idea how someone can truly develop in your system. Some players never get to realize their full potential as sometimes they land in a horrible spot where they don't get the time needed to develop properly or end up on a team where their talent isn't needed or wasted. You really don't know what you'll get until 3-4 years down the line.

In this case, Griffin probably wasn't happy with what was out there. If R.J. Barrett was available, I think he'd have taken him to play with his old Duke teammate Zion. A shame he passed on Hunter, but the deal was made prior to the pick. My issue was that they did this deal to dump Solomon Hill's expiring contract when they were a rebuilding team with no reason to do so all in an effort to sign J.J. Redick. These were the following assets that NOLA could've gotten from Atlanta:

-Atlanta's 19(8th)+20 1st(could put some light pro.)
-Dallas' 1st(10th)
-Cleveland 20 1st(top 10 pro. became 21+22 2nds)
-OKC 1st(lotto pro. until 22 then becomes 24+25 2nds)
-Brooklyn 19 1st(17th)+20 1st(became Poku)

They could've gotten a lot out of this as Travis Schlenk was really high and was prepared to pay a premium price for moving up 4 spots for Hunter who has become a stud and Griffin could've demanded a hefty sum. Instead, the Hawks were able to lower the asking price and in exchange for eating Hill's deal, they got the 8th and 17th picks that became Hayes and NAW along with the Cleveland 1st that became 2 2nds. They could've asked for the OKC 1st plus a pro. Atlanta pick in addition to what they got if they weren't so hellbent on signing Redick. Massively undersold here and could've sent the OKC pick back to the Thunder in exchange for eating Bledsoe's deal.

2) Jrue Holiday trade. I know that they felt that Jrue was probably gonna opt out and leave, but to me if the rumours were true that Myles Turner was available prior to this year, I think they missed the boat and could've used Jrue+Jaxson Hayes and a future 1st to nab Turner. May seem like an overpay, but Turner has 2 more years on his deal after this season. Myles would be the perfect complementary piece to Zion as not only can he be a defensive anchor that swats shots, but he can be a stretch 5 that shoots it at league average.

Instead, they chose to send him to Milwaukee. Now the package at the time was appealing as they got Bledsoe+Hill, 3 1sts and 2 swaps that were valuable. Giannis resigned and their only hope is that the 26 swap and 27 pick amount to something. My bigger qualm with this deal was that they gave away the pick that became R.J. Hampton to DEN who sent their 23 lotto pro. 1st to OKC and then giving up George Hill while keeping Eric Bledsoe and giving Steven Adams an extension before seeing if he fit in the Pelicans system or not. If OKC is getting a 1st, I'd send them a couple of 2nds as well just to eat Bledsoe's deal and keep Hill as Hill's last year is only guaranteed for 1.3M

Bledsoe has been horrid out there and clearly doesn't want to be in NO playing for a rebuilding team. The only good part is he's an exp. next year as his extra year is only guaranteed for 3.9M. They really should've found a way to keep Hill as I think he'd been better for working with and developing the younger guys in instilling good habits as he has a sharp BB IQ and is a good 3+D shooter even at his age. Plus if they had let Adams play out the year and he failed and flipped Hill for more assets, they'd have a lot of cap flexibility to work with and could work on a deal to bring back Lonzo as he's the ideal #3 guy next to BI+Zion.

3) Lack of experience/health/questionable hires. The young dudes are clearly green with Ingram needing to develop more consistency in order to take his game to the next level while Zion needs to develop a good mid range shot in order to save his body from the wear and tear that doomed Blake Griffin and I hope Zion eventually becomes an 80%FT shooter with a solid 13-17ft jump shot. If he develops that and stays in shape, he's gonna be an even bigger problem going forward.

Lonzo has made great strides in improving his FT% and being a more consistent 3PT shooter at 37% these past 2 years. He's battled some nagging injuries throughout his young career, but to me he reminds me of what Shaun Livingston could've been with a 3pt shot minus the career altering injury that ruined him for years. The Pelicans need to stop beating around the bush and pay him.

I like Stan Van Gundy as a HC, but to me they missed a good opportunity to go with a rising star in the coaching ranks. To me, Chris Finch could've been a far better hire or anybody from the coaching trees of Spoelstra, Nurse, Pop, Carlisle, Snyder or Malone. Kenny Atkinson could've been ideal as he did a great job in being a floor raiser on those underdog Brooklyn teams prior to KD arriving. When the team is losing games they should be winning or slipping on defense and digging themselves a hole, it's not good at all.

I think they'll be fine in the long run, but they really they need to move Bledsoe as his bad habits and low BB IQ is frustrating and there's a reason the Bucks were willing to pay a premium to move him.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#54 » by kan_t » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:06 am

I think people underrate NAW a bit.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#55 » by zimpy27 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:44 am

Good thread, I agree with most of OPs points through the thread. I can see a disaster unfolding there tbh but there is still time to turn it around. One more bad off-season and Griffin should be toast.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#56 » by Homer38 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:58 am

The pelicans are very disappointing .... They were much better last year when Zion was playing (pre-bubble of course) with Alvin Gentry as head coach .... Right now with SVG, they are garbage
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#57 » by God Squad » Thu Apr 8, 2021 11:16 am

5paceman wrote:Regarding Adams, they had money to be spent with so many young players, and his contract goes down $10M next season. For a young rebuilding team, I think a true workhorse/team center like Adams gives the team and guys like Hayes and Zion a baseline for the hard and less appreciated work that needs to be done.

All Steven Adams is doing is clogging up the lane from Zion. Honestly him and Bledsoe need to be moved.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#58 » by LloydFree » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:43 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:I think that trade with the Hawks screwed them. Hunter or Garland would be perfect with the rest of their core.

Naaah. The trade was fine. The picks were bad, specifically Jaxon Hayes. You already got Zion. There was no way Hayes was going to develop or fit with him. When they traded back, they should have concentrated on wings to compliment Zion.

Of course the other issue that screwed them somewhat, is the mystifying Steven Adams - George Hill trade. Trade away a player that clearly fit with Zion's development, for a player that does nothing for Zion, but get in the way. Steven Adam's acquisition doesn't kill the franchise, because it's only two years, but it is the first Red Flag that David Griffin is nothing but another Bryan Colangelo (his mentor).
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#59 » by Sam Hinkie » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:00 pm

David Griffin owes his career to Lebron James and the media. He is a bottom 10 GM who is treated as a top 10 GM.
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Re: David Griffin Needs To Be Fired 

Post#60 » by theonlyclutch » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:05 pm

theonlyclutch wrote:Some of Griffin's moves this season have been baffling:

-Hiring SVG: Nothing about his record with the Pistons suggests that he'd be a great candidate for the job. Would be better to find an assistant/someone from another league rather than a tired retread.

-Adams trade + extension: NOP effectively gave up a '23 1st, 2nds in' 23 + '24, and George Hill (fresh off shooting 46% from 3) for the right to pay Adams 3/62M. Adams is a fine player, but he's questionable fit with Zion and doesn't move the needle much for a rebuilding team which should be focused on accumulating assets for future trades/drafts. The timing of those picks in particular would be useful for picking up good players when both Zion + Ingram are on extension money.


The two big moves that Griffin bungled even without benefit of hindsight. Everyone laughed at MIL for throwing away assets for what was perceived to be a minor upgrade from Bledsoe to Jrue. Most did not predict that Bledsoe would be this washed right now.

Given that Turner was (indirectly) on the market in offseason as part of the planned Hayward S&T to Indiana, Griffin needs to be dinged if he wasn't aggressively involved as a third team in pursuing what is a near-perfect frontcourt partner for Zion.
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