bebopdeluxe wrote:SkyHookFTW wrote:bebopdeluxe wrote:
All of the huffing and puffing about your family's AMAZING sports exploits aside, you STILL don't get it.
You are right that viewership for women's sports in this country does not rise to the level needed for better salaries for the athletes. The point that lobosloboslobos so excellently made - which is also Rapinoe's point - is that women's sports doesn't give a rats' azz what YOU think or what YOU watch. You are - as far as being a potential supporter of better economics for women's sports - a lost cause. You don't give a crap, and you will NEVER give a crap. That, however, does NOT mean that the current generation of girls cannot make it their future to play professional sports - and be compensated well for it. It does NOT mean that over the next 10-20 years, as people like you turn off the TV and stop going to live events, that future generations of girls AND boys - kids who will have benifitted from the INCREASED INVESTMENT, COVERAGE AND SPONSORSHIP OF FEMALE SPORTS - will value those sports WAY more than men who (perhaps not you) don't give a crap about women's sports for whatever reason that is (including, potentially, the kind of conscious and unconscious misogyny that has been clearly evident in some of the posts in this thread).
Rapinoe doesn't give a fark what YOU think. What she is trying to do is to keep people like you from setting the terms of engagement for future generations - of both female athletes and viewers of BOTH sexes - to decide if they want value women's sports more than you do. And that starts with investing NOW. Women can't wait 20 years and then come back and say, "hey - do you like watching us any more now than you did 20 years ago?"
There was probably a time, 30 or 40 years ago, when the NBA spent millions of dollars trying to grow the game outside of the United States. At the time, they may have been pissing the money away. Now? It looks like an AMAZING return on invested capital. The NFL did the same thing starting 15-20 years ago...that is coming along more slowly, but it is the same thought process. What Rapinoe is fighting for is not just GIVE ME MORE MONEY NOW, but invest in the future of women's sports, so MAYBE a 5-year-girl today will be able to see her hard work turn into a professional career - one that her boy and girl friends in the playground will watch on TV and pay to go see.
If you can't see that, because all you can do is look at this issue through your own eyes, then fine. We move on.
Did you actually read my last post?
Yes. I wonder if you REALLY read mine.
The point isn't who watches TODAY. The point is who COULD watch in the next 15-20 years. It is clear that you don't watch, and you probably never will. Does that mean, ipso facto, than a society a generation from now - with an engaged generation of great female athletes who have benefitted from both investment in women's sports as well as the increased interest that comes from not only better marketing and audience-development, but a generation of MEN AND WOMEN who won't immediately discount the WNBA because WOW DID YOU SEE THAT ZION DUNK OMG OMG isn't part of the game.
Here's a question - do you think that it is pure coincidence that women's basketball and soccer seems to do reasonably well internationally, relative to the US? Why is that? Whatever the reasons, the best women basketball players in the world have been playing overseas, making MULTIPLES of what they make in the US. Unless these leagues - who have been operating for YEARS - are paying these top players $300,000 to $600,000 a year so they can lose money, the economics seem to work:
https://theundefeated.com/features/minnesota-lynx-seimone-augustus/
We can argue until the cows come home about why women make more money outside the US, the reality is they do. In your eyes, it will ALWAYS be like that - because YOU (and millions of other people like you) don't enjoy the product and don't support it. And that is fine. But it doesn't mean it will ALWAYS be that way. Maybe - if this country could come to grips with the sexism that has existed here since its founding (question - how many Fortune 500 CEO's are women? See answer below), we could invest in breaking down those barriers and lazy misogyny that leads to all sorts of beliefs - like women aren't as "competative" as men, or women aren't "wired" for the C-Suite. And once we do that, perhaps the next generation will look at things a little differently - on the court, as well as in corporate America. But as long as the attitude is "well, I don't like to watch women's sports" or "I don't think girls are as competative as boys", what is going to change - huh?
BTW - Women make up 41 (or 8%) of Fortune 500 CEO's...which makes the 24% of the Senate that is female look like a feminist revolution.
Women are being propelled to the top with help from men and corporations. The whole argument is essentially women using their privilege to get things they want boosted.
Throughout history, in any category you can think of, men were not given marketing or money to create a platform...they either had to create it or through grassroots efforts, grow it.
How many years did it take the NFL, MLB, and NBA to become the goliaths they are now? The natural interest of fans created these markets and corporations took notice and they began to invest their marketing dollars into those leagues. The NFL and the NBA were not always as popular as they are today, especially the NBA. We know that the 70's was a down period and the arrival of Magic and Bird, along with David Stern helped turn things around. Then with Michael Jordan and Nike, that propelled the game to where it is now.
The rest of the world was not even close to having the level of interest in basketball, as you can attest from the 1992 Dream Team, the rest of the world was far, far behind.
This is the issue for women's sports and going forward men's sports as well:
You have to have a dedicated fanbase that LOVES, not likes, LOVES the sport more than the marketing or external factors i.e. prestige, clout, money, etc. Those types of fans will love the sport through the ups and downs...that is why the NBA kept going after Magic/Bird retired...after Jordan retired...they had fans who love the sport so much they embraced new stars like Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, KG, McGrady and they also started embracing international stars like Dirk and Yao Ming, helping to grow the sport outside of the US.
The WNBA and the women's soccer team needs to get that one individual that is transcendent to get eyeballs to pay attention to their sport...but BEFORE that, they need a dedicated fanbase that will support them throughout the thick and thin. There are multiple examples of this:
NASCAR - not my cup of tea but there are dedicated fans who will support it enough to keep the league solvent
High school football - this can be regional...I lived in San Antonio, TX for five years and I had not been to a high school football game in at least 20 years, but friends and associates got me to go because of their enthusiasm
Golf - Tiger Woods is the example of that transcendent athlete that can bring eyeballs...but even without Tiger there is a dedicated fanbase that loves the game even without Tiger
Women sports do not want to have to build anything from the ground up and have to struggle to keep it afloat. They want the fame, the money, the attention because they see what the men have. But they overlook what men have had to do to get to this point. They also keep trying to get men to support their causes while:
- criticizing and chastising men for not supporting
- not criticizing and chastising women for not supporting
Draymond Green owes his salary to players like Dennis Rodman, Bobby Jones, John Havlicek who did not get compensated to the same level he is getting now. Draymond is standing on those players shoulders and reaping the benefits. That is not how the women want to do anything, they do not want to sacrifice and grind for the future, they want it all right now.
The NBA is in danger of losing the fanbase that will keep it solvent no matter how things are going culturally. The fans that love the sport outside of those external cultural factors. The NBA are gaining fans that watch for the things that the players do off the court and not on the court. Those fans are not dedicated, they will move on to something else when/if the NBA is not popping like it is now. Remember 41 years ago, one of the most exciting NBA final games of all time was on tape delay.
Things can change and it won't be just the things you want changed, but things you may not want to change.....