Kyrie is a Very Good Playmaker/Passer.

[Pelly24]

I feel like I see this seen as a borderline deficiency, but this dude can seriously playmaker his a** off. They're not the most creative passes, but they're usually made with quick and decisive decisions and pinpoint accuracy. These lobs are just crazy. His ability to pass equally well with both hands is crazy. He looks to get the ball ahead in transition and always takes advantage of sleeping defenses.

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Of course, he's below Jokic, Harden, Luka, LeBron, CP3, Trae Young and probably Ja Morant too, but he really is an above average playmaker. The fact that his turnovers are always under three a game despite his usage rate in a variety of contexts makes up for the lack of creativity, genius he's got.

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[BoardCrusher]

one thing is for sure, he the best out of all the DNP/personal reasons players out there

[Peregrine01]

I have no doubt that Kyrie is a very good passer - the problem is decision-making. The greatest playmakers seamlessly mold their passing with their scoring yet Kyrie seems to oscillate between the two and he too often gets tunnel vision to the point where he completely ignores his teammates. I partly attribute this to his enormous skill set where he just has so much ability and a variety of different tools that he gets enamored with showcasing the entire repertoire. He's very similar to Kobe in this regard.

[Maxthirty]

If Kyrie is a “very good” playmaker then I need to see your adjectives for guys like LeBron, Harden, Chris Paul, Luka, etc.

He’s a very good basketball player though.

[Pelly24]

If Kyrie is a “very good” playmaker then I need to see your adjectives for guys like LeBron, Harden, Chris Paul, Luka, etc.

He’s a very good basketball player though.

Well those guys are like two tiers above. I think there's bad/decent/good/very good/elite/ALl-Time Great. LeBron, Harden, Luka, CP3 are all time great.

[Pelly24]

I have no doubt that Kyrie is a very good passer - the problem is decision-making. The greatest playmakers seamlessly mold their passing with their scoring yet Kyrie seems to oscillate between the two and he too often gets tunnel vision to the point where he completely ignores his teammates. I partly attribute this to his enormous skill set where he just has so much ability and a variety of different tools that he gets enamored with showcasing the entire repertoire. He's very similar to Kobe in this regard.

I've seen people say this, and I agree to an extent, but not totally. I think in Boston and even now, he generally mixes passing and passing pretty seamlessly. Sometimes it can feel almost gimmicky when he passes too much and it seems like he's trying to make point, but don't see that as much now. I think sometimes he decides that he's going to score or get a shot no matter what, and I think that can be fine, because sometimes you just have to do that. I think he's just not shy about calling his own number. But I generally see him pass the ball to teammates when they're open or he looks to get them the ball in their spots.

I don't think he mixes them seamlessly, but there's a big difference between him and other pure scorers/iso specialists. He can legitimately take over a game or keep a game in reach with passing. He's not one of the greatest playmakers, but I think he's not gotten enough credit for his element of his game. Compare him to Bradley Beal/Lavine, for instance.

[TinmanZBoy]

He is impeccable on offense,

[donnieme]

He's decent. His vision is limited to the immediate cone of vision ahead of him whereas a "very good passer" can spot passing opportunities before their man is actually open and from different angles on the floor. Kyrie misses too many open guys. Also his decision making and orientation is more geared towards pulling up when an opportunity isnt immediately available. In Harden's first 2 games before he was designated PG Kyrie shot the ball 52 times, Decision making and willingness is half of being a very good passer. Kyrie is merely decent when he tries

[Lalouie]

kyrie is DECENT.

but it is not what he does.
and zach lavine had 14assists once

[JonFromVA]

The Nets were -13 when Kyrie was on the floor even with him contributing 37 & 9 ...

[Pelly24]

The Nets were -13 when Kyrie was on the floor even with him contributing 37 & 9 ...

Meh, that was just a flukish comeback where the Nets bench players severely outplayed the guys they were playing. He was balling out both ends yesterday.

[phanman]

Of course he is. He's just such a potent scorer that him taking the shot is usually a better offensive outcome than getting his teammates involved.

[GYK]

For a score 1st player, yea he’s right with the best. Can easily create a possession where he or a teammate can get a good shot.

[JonFromVA]

The Nets were -13 when Kyrie was on the floor even with him contributing 37 & 9 ...

Meh, that was just a flukish comeback where the Nets bench players severely outplayed the guys they were playing. He was balling out both ends yesterday.

And yet, that was the example we were given.

[Rodwilliams]

Very underrated passer.

[Pelly24]

The Nets were -13 when Kyrie was on the floor even with him contributing 37 & 9 ...

Meh, that was just a flukish comeback where the Nets bench players severely outplayed the guys they were playing. He was balling out both ends yesterday.

And yet, that was the example we were given.

If you mean me citing that game, their offense really wasn't that much of an issue. They were literally without a backup point guard, or strictly speaking even a backup shooting guard, and they were pretty much brick city from the three point land. 76ers chased the shooters around good. But Kai was making intelligent/sharp passes the whole way through, keeping his turnovers at just three while getting 37 points on 71 TS% and making several very good defensive plays. The passes where he took advantage of bad transition defense and the lobs were awesome.

[JN61]

In terms of NBA point guard standards he is not. However he is just about average for his position which is fine considering he is scorer first and they have superior playmaker. He is nowhere near levels of Paul, Lebron, Westbrook or Jokic.

Also video was full of the most mundane playmaking/passing any point guard in the league does.

[JonFromVA]

Meh, that was just a flukish comeback where the Nets bench players severely outplayed the guys they were playing. He was balling out both ends yesterday.

And yet, that was the example we were given.

If you mean me citing that game, their offense really wasn't that much of an issue. They were literally without a backup point guard, or strictly speaking even a backup shooting guard, and they were pretty much brick city from the three point land. 76ers chased the shooters around good. But Kai was making intelligent/sharp passes the whole way through, keeping his turnovers at just three while getting 37 points on 71 TS% and making several very good defensive plays. The passes where he took advantage of bad transition defense and the lobs were awesome.

Yep, just bad teammates missing shots. I remember hearing a lot of that back in Cleveland, even though somehow when Delly would come in the game his teammates started making shots.

Anyway, I'm sure you if you look you can find a game where Irving passed the ball well, his teammates made their shots, and his group actually outscored the other team while he was on the floor.

[WHITE_HOT_HEAT]

No. He is just decent. There is a body of work to state otherwise. His natural role is that of an SG. He isn't a good decision maker and can't direct the offense of a team.

As a scoring guard though, he might one of the best ever.

[Pelly24]

And yet, that was the example we were given.

If you mean me citing that game, their offense really wasn't that much of an issue. They were literally without a backup point guard, or strictly speaking even a backup shooting guard, and they were pretty much brick city from the three point land. 76ers chased the shooters around good. But Kai was making intelligent/sharp passes the whole way through, keeping his turnovers at just three while getting 37 points on 71 TS% and making several very good defensive plays. The passes where he took advantage of bad transition defense and the lobs were awesome.

Yep, just bad teammates missing shots. I remember hearing a lot of that back in Cleveland, even though somehow when Delly would come in the game his teammates started making shots.

Anyway, I'm sure you if you look you can find a game where Irving passed the ball well, his teammates made their shots, and his group actually outscored the other team while he was on the floor.

I think he's still got a winning record without one of either KD or Harden, and he's got an 8.1 Net Rating and still has the best ORTG when on the court just by himself. I'm not sure what this is lol like, the Nets were not supposed to win that game against a fully loaded 76ers team. To say he was bad or ineffective is just a massive reach.

The teammates aren't bad, but it's not necessarily enough to win against the league MVP (top 2 at least), a 16/8/8 DPOY candidate, an all-star level scorer and multiple shooters and defenders lol. As for those Cavs teams, the fact that they were close to the worst team in the league and have been since LeBron left a second time should say enough about how good they were.