Kyrie is a Very Good Playmaker/Passer.

[Joao Saraiva]

No he isn't. When doubled hard he rarely makes a great pass out of it. He dribbles a ton and yes he can obviously assist because he is a good scorer/shot creator, but that is far from being very good.

There is a reason why the ball needed to on LeBron's hands and it will need to be on Harden's hands for him to be a true contender.

Kyrie is a great shot creator, a good finisher, great handler and very good spot up shooter. Very good playmaker... definitely not. And that's why it will never work with him as the #1 guy.

[JonFromVA]

If you mean me citing that game, their offense really wasn't that much of an issue. They were literally without a backup point guard, or strictly speaking even a backup shooting guard, and they were pretty much brick city from the three point land. 76ers chased the shooters around good. But Kai was making intelligent/sharp passes the whole way through, keeping his turnovers at just three while getting 37 points on 71 TS% and making several very good defensive plays. The passes where he took advantage of bad transition defense and the lobs were awesome.

Yep, just bad teammates missing shots. I remember hearing a lot of that back in Cleveland, even though somehow when Delly would come in the game his teammates started making shots.

Anyway, I'm sure you if you look you can find a game where Irving passed the ball well, his teammates made their shots, and his group actually outscored the other team while he was on the floor.

I think he's still got a winning record without one of either KD or Harden, and he's got an 8.1 Net Rating and still has the best ORTG when on the court just by himself. I'm not sure what this is lol like, the Nets were not supposed to win that game against a fully loaded 76ers team. To say he was bad or ineffective is just a massive reach.

The teammates aren't bad, but it's not necessarily enough to win against the league MVP (top 2 at least), a 16/8/8 DPOY candidate, an all-star level scorer and multiple shooters and defenders lol. As for those Cavs teams, the fact that they were close to the worst team in the league and have been since LeBron left a second time should say enough about how good they were.

I mean, you picked a game where Irving starts the 4th quarter against the Sixers bench unit and falls behind 9 more points, and then as soon as he's pulled from the game the Nets rally back to pull within 3pts without him. Irving never goes back in the game. What's up with that?

So, we could continue to micro-analyze it, or like I said you could have just picked a better example.

[Mujahydeen]

He's a decent passer, but is at best so-so at running the offense, overall not the person you ideally want as your best player.

[Upperclass]

I have no doubt that Kyrie is a very good passer - the problem is decision-making. The greatest playmakers seamlessly mold their passing with their scoring yet Kyrie seems to oscillate between the two and he too often gets tunnel vision to the point where he completely ignores his teammates. I partly attribute this to his enormous skill set where he just has so much ability and a variety of different tools that he gets enamored with showcasing the entire repertoire. He's very similar to Kobe in this regard.

Nailed it. Tatum has the same issue though less naturally gifted as a faciliatator

[Pelly24]

I have no doubt that Kyrie is a very good passer - the problem is decision-making. The greatest playmakers seamlessly mold their passing with their scoring yet Kyrie seems to oscillate between the two and he too often gets tunnel vision to the point where he completely ignores his teammates. I partly attribute this to his enormous skill set where he just has so much ability and a variety of different tools that he gets enamored with showcasing the entire repertoire. He's very similar to Kobe in this regard.

Nailed it. Tatum has the same issue though less naturally gifted as a faciliatator

It's funny I've seen some real flashes of playmaking potential from Tatum, but idk that he's a willing passer. As for the original post, I think it's a conundrum Kobe and Kyrie have where you're very capable of making every shot (kyrie even mores when it comes to jumpers) so there's never really what you could definitely call a "bad" shot, but it would probably be better to kick out if you can.

[The_Hater]

Just because Kyrie makes some good passes when he draws defenders, that does not make him a great passer.

Generally, he’s an unwilling passer and only looks that direction when he hasn’t created a scoring opportunity for himself. This is why he had no problem saying that Harden is the PG and I’m the SG

[celticfan42487]

Passer yes, playmaker no.

His game of slow it down, and dribble around for a few days doesn't involve elements that creates good shots for others. There's no drive and kick there.

Like any scorer though he has a dump off game, and he has the talent to pass i the opportunity arrises but he doesn't create opportunities for others beyond a standard starting PG level.

His game involves drawing two defenders, not passing, and then taking a shot. He has a weird inverse game where he won't pass guys open but at the same time he's just as likely to score or more likely taking an off balanced fall away while doubling as he is shooting a wide open shot and doing both at a high %.

[Upperclass]

I have no doubt that Kyrie is a very good passer - the problem is decision-making. The greatest playmakers seamlessly mold their passing with their scoring yet Kyrie seems to oscillate between the two and he too often gets tunnel vision to the point where he completely ignores his teammates. I partly attribute this to his enormous skill set where he just has so much ability and a variety of different tools that he gets enamored with showcasing the entire repertoire. He's very similar to Kobe in this regard.

Nailed it. Tatum has the same issue though less naturally gifted as a faciliatator

It's funny I've seen some real flashes of playmaking potential from Tatum, but idk that he's a willing passer. As for the original post, I think it's a conundrum Kobe and Kyrie have where you're very capable of making every shot (kyrie even mores when it comes to jumpers) so there's never really what you could definitely call a "bad" shot, but it would probably be better to kick out if you can.

Totally agree! Sometimes you HAVE to set up teammates to keep everyone engaged, defenses guessing etc and also keep yourself at peak effectiveness. Jordan was great at this. LeBron even better and Harden is up there as well. But its probably an innate skill vs a learned one.