Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol

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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#41 » by TTP » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:00 am

Dominater wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Dominater wrote:The picks are protected 1 thru 4. Those are the ones that matter. Otherwise we'll be surrendering another Markkanen, coby White, or Wendell Carter type. Meh.

And if these picks were so valuable, then how come there was no market for them the last few drafts. We've had the last 3 years 7, 7, 4. Nobody was down for trading established players for any of them ala Ray Allen to Boston for #5

Just because GarPax didn't know how to draft, and wound up with Markkanen, Carter and White instead of Donovan Mitchell, Michael Porter Jr and Tyler Herro, doesn't mean mid-high lottery picks aren't valuable and should be wasted on non-difference making Veterans.

Unfortunately our new regime took Patrick Williams at #4 when Haliburton went #12. So our new regime can't draft either. Our franchise hasn't hit on a pick in 10 years. The only way we're hitting is if it's an obvious one in the top 3 that nobody misses.

Teams like the Wolves, Kings, Pistons have had high picks for many many years now. And they all still suck.


Both the Kings and Pistons in recent years have lost picks because they traded them to try to and get the 8th seed. The Kings traded multiple pick swaps (one of which caused them to drop from 3rd to 5th in 2017 and luckily ended up working out for them when they landed Fox) and their 2019 1st (which ended up 14th) so that they could free cap space sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. The Pistons traded their 2018 1st (which ended up 12th) in the Blake Griffin trade.

You literally gave examples of teams that paid the price for doing exactly what the Bulls are doing now. Both of those teams were so desperate to make the playoffs that they sacrificed their future to try and make the 8th seed, and both teams failed in that pursuit, setting themselves back. The Bulls look to be on the same path.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#42 » by Jimmy Recard » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:16 am

Troy Brown Jr about to get his chance..
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#43 » by TTP » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:25 am

Also, another reason that the Bulls haven't hit anything in the draft in recent years is because they haven't given themselves enough chances. You've been in rebuilding mode since trading Jimmy Butler during the 2017 draft four years ago.

In 2017, you drafted Lauri in the mid-lottery and sold your 2nd for cash (which is pretty inexcusable for a rebuilding team).

In 2018, you drafted WCJ in the mid-lottery and Hutchison in the late 1st. You traded your 2nd the previous year in a deal that brought you Cameron Payne.

In 2019, you drafted Coby White in the mid-lottery. You took Gafford in the early 2nd.

In 2020, you drafted Patrick Williams 4th. You took a Euro stash that you still have the rights to in the mid-2nd.

So in four drafts since going into rebuild mode, the Bulls have had five 1sts and two 2nds. That's just not enough for a non-playoff team. You can't expect to get lucky in the draft when you're giving yourself such limited opportunities.

Plenty of currently good teams that have built through the draft have had misses over the years. The Sixers wasted picks on Okafor, Fultz, Zhaire Smith, TLC, etc. The Nuggets wasted picks on Mudiay, Lydon, etc but still built the majority of their team through mid/late 1sts and 2nds (Jokic, MPJ, Harris, Nurkic, Beasley, Hernangomez, Morris were all value found outside the top of the draft). The Jazz landed their stars through mid and late 1sts, and even they missed on a few. These teams gave themselves as many chances as they could, and plenty of other picks worked out.

The Bulls should have been aggressively pursuing other teams 1sts and 2nds to give themselves as many chances as possible to hit big. Instead they were mostly satisfied making their 2 picks a year, and now their fans are disillusioned into thinking that draft picks aren't worth much because they haven't hit much of anything.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#44 » by LordCovington33 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:33 am

Shock Defeat wrote:That Vuc deal ruined their season

A lot of people were praising it at the time, which never made sense to me.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#45 » by GiannisAnte34 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 am

remember some Bulls poster claiming they'd easily win a 1st round series against the Bucks as a 6th seed lol that aged like milk
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#46 » by Dan Z » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:13 am

TTP wrote:Also, another reason that the Bulls haven't hit anything in the draft in recent years is because they haven't given themselves enough chances. You've been in rebuilding mode since trading Jimmy Butler during the 2017 draft four years ago.

In 2017, you drafted Lauri in the mid-lottery and sold your 2nd for cash (which is pretty inexcusable for a rebuilding team).


In 2018, you drafted WCJ in the mid-lottery and Hutchison in the late 1st. You traded your 2nd the previous year in a deal that brought you Cameron Payne.

In 2019, you drafted Coby White in the mid-lottery. You took Gafford in the early 2nd.

In 2020, you drafted Patrick Williams 4th. You took a Euro stash that you still have the rights to in the mid-2nd.

So in four drafts since going into rebuild mode, the Bulls have had five 1sts and two 2nds. That's just not enough for a non-playoff team. You can't expect to get lucky in the draft when you're giving yourself such limited opportunities.

Plenty of currently good teams that have built through the draft have had misses over the years. The Sixers wasted picks on Okafor, Fultz, Zhaire Smith, TLC, etc. The Nuggets wasted picks on Mudiay, Lydon, etc but still built the majority of their team through mid/late 1sts and 2nds (Jokic, MPJ, Harris, Nurkic, Beasley, Hernangomez, Morris were all value found outside the top of the draft). The Jazz landed their stars through mid and late 1sts, and even they missed on a few. These teams gave themselves as many chances as they could, and plenty of other picks worked out.

The Bulls should have been aggressively pursuing other teams 1sts and 2nds to give themselves as many chances as possible to hit big. Instead they were mostly satisfied making their 2 picks a year, and now their fans are disillusioned into thinking that draft picks aren't worth much because they haven't hit much of anything.


The Bulls also traded their own #16 pick in 2017 along with Butler. At that point in the draft these players were available: John Collins, OG Anunoby and Jarrett Allen.

When the trade happened I thought the Bulls should've insisted on keeping that pick even if it meant not getting someone like Dunn back in the deal.

You could also argue that they should've kept Butler and built around him...
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#47 » by Rainwater » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:09 am

The Real Dalic wrote:
SFour wrote:They'd be tanking for the Magic though....failure of a season

Unfortunately for the Magic, it's top 4 protected. So if the Bulls somehow get into the top 4, we lose the pick.


I am pretty certain that pick won't land in the top 4.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#48 » by Rainwater » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:11 am

dirkforpres wrote:Yikes what terrible timing. Wear your mask people


Better yet get vaccinated.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#49 » by Dominator83 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:01 am

TTP wrote:
Dominater wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Just because GarPax didn't know how to draft, and wound up with Markkanen, Carter and White instead of Donovan Mitchell, Michael Porter Jr and Tyler Herro, doesn't mean mid-high lottery picks aren't valuable and should be wasted on non-difference making Veterans.

Unfortunately our new regime took Patrick Williams at #4 when Haliburton went #12. So our new regime can't draft either. Our franchise hasn't hit on a pick in 10 years. The only way we're hitting is if it's an obvious one in the top 3 that nobody misses.

Teams like the Wolves, Kings, Pistons have had high picks for many many years now. And they all still suck.


Both the Kings and Pistons in recent years have lost picks because they traded them to try to and get the 8th seed. The Kings traded multiple pick swaps (one of which caused them to drop from 3rd to 5th in 2017 and luckily ended up working out for them when they landed Fox) and their 2019 1st (which ended up 14th) so that they could free cap space sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. The Pistons traded their 2018 1st (which ended up 12th) in the Blake Griffin trade.

You literally gave examples of teams that paid the price for doing exactly what the Bulls are doing now. Both of those teams were so desperate to make the playoffs that they sacrificed their future to try and make the 8th seed, and both teams failed in that pursuit, setting themselves back. The Bulls look to be on the same path.

I'm not going to argue that the specific trade for vucecic was a bad idea. It was. If they were willing to spend that type of draft capital, they should've spent it more wisely. They could have gotten Drummond for a 2nd, and still had those 1sts to spend for someone like Lonzo or John Collins, hell maybe even both for a 1st each. I would much have preferred a combo like that as opposed to just Vuc. No argument there it was an overpay and waste of an asset.

But the hypocrisy regarding picks here on Realgm is real. 2 years ago we had the #7. Lots of us posted several ideas on the T&T board. Pretty much every fan of every other team was like: "your pick sucks, it's worthless, that's why your trying to trade it." Last year #4 pick. Same feed back. Our pick sucked and was worthless. Now this year we surrender our pick that will be in the 7-10 range, and suddenly it's "you guys are stupid you gave away a premium pick " .

Draft picks themselves are overrated imo. Ok yea wolves and Kings did trade a pick here and there, but they still drafted their share of high busts over the Last decade plus. We literally have taken busts every year for the past 10 years. Who is the current class of the league. Lakers and Brooklyn right? Gotta love those cores they drafted. The real contenders think big, which is eff draft picks get real players.

The Lakers actually did try the whole organic thing. Randle, D-Lo, Ingrim, Ball, Clarkson, Kuzma. All of those except for Ball were great picks too. Lots of high picks in that group too. And they were going nowhere with all that.

The big boys think big. I appreciate our FO having the mindset and realizing the trade/ FA route is more effective than the draft route. But again, I won't disagree that so far the execution wasn't good.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#50 » by TTP » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:29 am

Dominater wrote:
TTP wrote:
Dominater wrote:Unfortunately our new regime took Patrick Williams at #4 when Haliburton went #12. So our new regime can't draft either. Our franchise hasn't hit on a pick in 10 years. The only way we're hitting is if it's an obvious one in the top 3 that nobody misses.

Teams like the Wolves, Kings, Pistons have had high picks for many many years now. And they all still suck.


Both the Kings and Pistons in recent years have lost picks because they traded them to try to and get the 8th seed. The Kings traded multiple pick swaps (one of which caused them to drop from 3rd to 5th in 2017 and luckily ended up working out for them when they landed Fox) and their 2019 1st (which ended up 14th) so that they could free cap space sign Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. The Pistons traded their 2018 1st (which ended up 12th) in the Blake Griffin trade.

You literally gave examples of teams that paid the price for doing exactly what the Bulls are doing now. Both of those teams were so desperate to make the playoffs that they sacrificed their future to try and make the 8th seed, and both teams failed in that pursuit, setting themselves back. The Bulls look to be on the same path.

I'm not going to argue that the specific trade for vucecic was a bad idea. It was. If they were willing to spend that type of draft capital, they should've spent it more wisely. They could have gotten Drummond for a 2nd, and still had those 1sts to spend for someone like Lonzo or John Collins, hell maybe even both for a 1st each. I would much have preferred a combo like that as opposed to just Vuc. No argument there it was an overpay and waste of an asset.

But the hypocrisy regarding picks here on Realgm is real. 2 years ago we had the #7. Lots of us posted several ideas on the T&T board. Pretty much every fan of every other team was like: "your pick sucks, it's worthless, that's why your trying to trade it." Last year #4 pick. Same feed back. Our pick sucked and was worthless. Now this year we surrender our pick that will be in the 7-10 range, and suddenly it's "you guys are stupid you gave away a premium pick " .

Draft picks themselves are overrated imo. Ok yea wolves and Kings did trade a pick here and there, but they still drafted their share of high busts over the Last decade plus. We literally have taken busts every year for the past 10 years. Who is the current class of the league. Lakers and Brooklyn right? Gotta love those cores they drafted. The real contenders think big, which is eff draft picks get real players.

The Lakers actually did try the whole organic thing. Randle, D-Lo, Ingrim, Ball, Clarkson, Kuzma. All of those except for Ball were great picks too. Lots of high picks in that group too. And they were going nowhere with all that.

The big boys think big. I appreciate our FO having the mindset and realizing the trade/ FA route is more effective than the draft route. But again, I won't disagree that so far the execution wasn't good.


Yeah I don't care what the masses on the trade boards think and it's pointless to bring that into a discussion with me given that it's not something I said. It's not a hypocrisy - different people have different opinions and you can't just lump everyone together into one collective opinion. At no point have I ever said that a lottery pick was worthless.

I already addressed the bolded in another post with you. I literally said "outside of the teams with the LA/NYC advantage". Those teams are not comparable to team building strategy for any other team. The majority of teams do not have the ability to add players in the way those cities can. Though for what it's worth, the Lakers got at least one of their real players by trading the players they acquired with draft picks, though only because he wanted to go there years in advance because of the LA advantage.

Chicago and pretty much every other city can't do what the "big boys" can do, whatever that means. Neither can Philadelphia, Denver, Utah, etc. For all of these other teams, they recognize not only the importance, but the necessity, of the draft.

Also, how has that FA and trade route gone for the Bulls historically? The best players the Bulls have acquired historically have all been through the draft - Jordan, Pippen, Rose, Noah, Butler, etc. Those are the guys that have been the foundations of your most successful teams. Your best free agent signings over the last two decades are Boozer and past prime Pau? For the Sixers it was Elton Brand. It doesn't seem to be a viable avenue for either of our teams.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#51 » by John Murdoch » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:49 pm

The Vucevic trade reminds me of SVG trading for Blake when they were no where near being "one guy away" from contending or even pretending for that matter
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#52 » by basketballRob » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:13 pm

LordCovington33 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:That Vuc deal ruined their season

A lot of people were praising it at the time, which never made sense to me.
Does it rank up there with the Brooklyn/Boston deal?

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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#53 » by LordCovington33 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:12 am

basketballRob wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:That Vuc deal ruined their season

A lot of people were praising it at the time, which never made sense to me.
Does it rank up there with the Brooklyn/Boston deal?

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Nah, not even in the worst two trades in the last couple of seasons: Harden trade and the Paul/Westbrook swap.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#54 » by Repeat 3-peat » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:15 am

GiannisAnte34 wrote:remember some Bulls poster claiming they'd easily win a 1st round series against the Bucks as a 6th seed lol that aged like milk


I'm guessing this actually didn't happen. Maybe some bozo on twitter or something said it.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#55 » by GiannisAnte34 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:00 am

Repeat 3-peat wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:remember some Bulls poster claiming they'd easily win a 1st round series against the Bucks as a 6th seed lol that aged like milk


I'm guessing this actually didn't happen. Maybe some bozo on twitter or something said it.


no it happened right here on good old general board realgm

same place Spicy P was a top 5 player in the league
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#56 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:10 am

John Murdoch wrote:The Vucevic trade reminds me of SVG trading for Blake when they were no where near being "one guy away" from contending or even pretending for that matter


yup +100 for style points. excellent comparison cant believe top 3 gm AK is worse than realgmer.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#57 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:12 am

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
Repeat 3-peat wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:remember some Bulls poster claiming they'd easily win a 1st round series against the Bucks as a 6th seed lol that aged like milk


I'm guessing this actually didn't happen. Maybe some bozo on twitter or something said it.


no it happened right here on good old general board realgm

same place Spicy P was a top 5 player in the league


sorry. i hated zach and vuc but thought we had a chance. i was saying i want the bucks as my most favorite matchups among all other powerhouses such as sixers, nets where they stand no chance its better forfeiting. never did i say we are more likely to win.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#58 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:13 am

LordCovington33 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:That Vuc deal ruined their season

A lot of people were praising it at the time, which never made sense to me.


and thats why they shouldnt be gms. they are literally elementary logic. oh fk we have 2 all stars. better than AD and LEBRON!!
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#59 » by DroseReturnChi » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:15 am

Rainwater wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
SFour wrote:They'd be tanking for the Magic though....failure of a season

Unfortunately for the Magic, it's top 4 protected. So if the Bulls somehow get into the top 4, we lose the pick.


I am pretty certain that pick won't land in the top 4.


why do you guys keep claiming top 4? The Bulls when they had 0 all stars never managed to pick 4 for all the tanking they intentionally did. Top 4 protected is basically same as unprotected. You would have to go decades early when the bulls jumped that high to 1. thats not happening.
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Re: Woj: Zach LaVine Expected to Miss Multiple Games After Entering League Safety & Health Protocol 

Post#60 » by gardenofsound » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:11 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:Unfortunately for the Magic, it's top 4 protected. So if the Bulls somehow get into the top 4, we lose the pick.


I am pretty certain that pick won't land in the top 4.


why do you guys keep claiming top 4? The Bulls when they had 0 all stars never managed to pick 4 for all the tanking they intentionally did. Top 4 protected is basically same as unprotected. You would have to go decades early when the bulls jumped that high to 1. thats not happening.


They jumped to #4 just last year. Am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?

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