1st Team All NBA

ryguy613 · Post #1 » by **ryguy613** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:56 pm

Just realizing that this year's 1st Team All NBA is going to be brutal. At least 1 or 2 guys you'd think of as no brainers won't make the cut. As of this second, I think the team will end up looking like this:

Jokic/Giannis/LeBron/Steph/Dame

But I admit I could be totally wrong about that.

The obvious omissions there are: Embiid, Luka, Kawhi, Harden, Beal (Durant's only played 24 games so I can't add him to the list). I feel like if Embiid was listed as a PF/C, he'd make the cut over LeBron but both he and Jokic are listed as true centers so only one will make it onto the team (I think).

xdrta+ · Post #2 » by **xdrta+** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:09 pm

I think you'll get the biggest pushback on Dame. Harden or Luka seem more likely to me.

Ron Swanson · Post #3 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:11 pm

Curry/Luka/Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic

With Lebron likely out another 2-3 weeks, I'm not sure the All-NBA voters want to go down this slippery slope of rewarding guys that miss more than a third of the season (I'm not even sure what Lebron's case over Kawhi is anyways). Lillard and Luka are interchangeable to me.

SK21209 · Post #4 » by **SK21209** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:13 pm

The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

ryguy613 · Post #5 » by **ryguy613** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:24 pm

SK21209 wrote:The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

I agree. Missed games is throwing a bunch of wrenches into this. And you raise a good point about 2nd team, if missing games disqualifies you from 1st, why not 2nd, or even 3rd for that matter. No real good answer on that. I just think it'll be Jokic because I think he will end up winning MVP (right or wrong) and therefor be a default pick for 1st team. Do I think he's the MVP? Who knows... seems like a last man physically standing kind of year...

omerome · Post #6 » by **omerome** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:32 pm

SK21209 wrote:The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

It doesn't make it a mess to me. If a player misses enough games, they shouldn't be qualified to make any of the teams IMO. Part of the criteria should be the availability of said player, not just stats.

Now how they determine how many games qualify for the award, that's a different discussion.

BenoUdrihFTL · Post #7 » by **BenoUdrihFTL** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:34 pm

C - Jokic
F - Giannis
F - Kawhi
G - Curry
G - Tyler Herro

Seem like the obvious choices

omerome · Post #8 » by **omerome** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:35 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:C - Jokic
F - Giannis
F - Kawhi
G - Curry
G - Tyler Herro

Seem like the obvious choices

One of these don't belong. Looking at you Kawhi.

Johnny Bball · Post #9 » by **Johnny Bball** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:36 pm

ryguy613 wrote:Just realizing that this year's 1st Team All NBA is going to be brutal. At least 1 or 2 guys you'd think of as no brainers won't make the cut. As of this second, I think the team will end up looking like this:

Jokic/Giannis/LeBron/Steph/Dame

But I admit I could be totally wrong about that.

The obvious omissions there are: Embiid, Luka, Kawhi, Harden, Beal (Durant's only played 24 games so I can't add him to the list). I feel like if Embiid was listed as a PF/C, he'd make the cut over LeBron but both he and Jokic are listed as true centers so only one will make it onto the team (I think).

Looks right to me assuming James is back to play the rest of the games. Leonard is in the mix. Embiid too, depends really but it's close.

eminence · Post #10 » by **eminence** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:40 pm

Curry
Luka/Lillard
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic

BoatsNZones · Post #11 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:44 pm

G: Curry (almost locked in now)
G: Luka (I think he passed Dame slightly in the past month. Also has a strong case over Harden on top of not missing much time)
F: Giannis (hasn’t missed too much time and consistent all season)
F: Zion (LBJ has missed way too much time and I think the same goes for Kawhi, who Zion has a case over regardless at this point)
C: Joker (lock IMO)

RunOKC · Post #12 » by **RunOKC** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:45 pm

Harden
Curry
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic

ryguy613 · Post #13 » by **ryguy613** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:53 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Curry/Luka/Kawhi/Giannis/Jokic

With Lebron likely out another 2-3 weeks, I'm not sure the All-NBA voters want to go down this slippery slope of rewarding guys that miss more than a third of the season (I'm not even sure what Lebron's case over Kawhi is anyways). Lillard and Luka are interchangeable to me.

LeBron vs Kawhi is pretty simple. Go back to before LeBron's injury.... LeBron was very clearly seen as the best SF in the league, and likely front runner for MVP. Kawhi was not. Now, if he cant come back within the next few games, Kawhi might edge him out but keep in mind, Kawhi has missed a ton of game himself.

ryguy613 · Post #14 » by **ryguy613** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:54 pm

omerome wrote:
SK21209 wrote:The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

It doesn't make it a mess to me. If a player misses enough games, they shouldn't be qualified to make any of the teams IMO. Part of the criteria should be the availability of said player, not just stats.

Now how they determine how many games qualify for the award, that's a different discussion.

so you believe there should be a hard cut off?

JimmyPlopper · Post #15 » by **JimmyPlopper** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:54 pm

I would break the position rules and do this:
Curry/Harden/LeBron/Jokic/Embiid

TTP · Post #16 » by **TTP** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:57 pm

SK21209 wrote:The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

I think you just look at it from a wins above replacement perspective. While Embiid and LeBron will end up with a lot of missed games, they're still going to be in the top 10 in WAR by most metrics, so it makes sense that they'd still end up on the 2nd team. In Embiid's case, a metric like RAPTOR has Embiid 2nd on a rate basis but drops to 8th when accounting for minutes played.

ryguy613 · Post #17 » by **ryguy613** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:57 pm

JimmyPlopper wrote:I would break the position rules and do this:
Curry/Harden/LeBron/Jokic/Embiid

I always found it weird that the teams don't need to be forced into actual position breakdowns of C/PF/SF/SG/PG... just the general breakdowns of C/F/G. That always seems to benefit some guys and screw over others.

BoatsNZones · Post #18 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:58 pm

Zions numbers since I’m the only one mentioning him it seems: 27/7/4 on a 65% TS, 27.5 PER. Top 10 in PPG, TS, PER, WInShares. 11th in BPM/VORP. Growing as the season has progressed also. I think he should be strongly considered for 1st.

phanman · Post #19 » by **phanman** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:59 pm

Dame's numbers have slipped in the last 12 games he's played: 22pts, 7.4ast, 3.3reb, 0.8stl on 38/34/87 or 53.7%TS and is now missing a few with that hamstring injury. Him and Luka are so close for that second spot that for me stretch like this slots him down a peg to that second team.

Harden even with how good he's been in Brooklyn has missed 9 games and counting(including that 4 minute appearance against NYK before going down again) and looks likely to miss the upcoming b2b bringing that total up to 11 + 3 games he missed prior to this setback. That is not including him destroying Houston's 2021 campaign which I believe will be used against him in 1st team voting.

The forward slot is interesting with games missed piling up for the contenders. Giannis has only missed 9 and is back in the line-up so I have him as a lock but Kawhi (13) and George (15) are already close to missing 20% of the season and most likely have a few rest games on the horizon as the season concludes. Both guys have played well enough to make it and I give Kawhi the slight lead for now.

With that said here's my team:
Guards: Curry & Doncic
Forwards: Giannis & Kawhi
Center: Jokic

knicks512 · Post #20 » by **knicks512** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:59 pm

ryguy613 wrote:
omerome wrote:
SK21209 wrote:The "missed games" arguments always make these a mess. If you think Embiid can't make 1st team over Jokic due to games missed, does that mean he's just pushed to 2nd Team or can he not be on any of the All-NBA teams? Same thing with LeBron.

It doesn't make it a mess to me. If a player misses enough games, they shouldn't be qualified to make any of the teams IMO. Part of the criteria should be the availability of said player, not just stats.

Now how they determine how many games qualify for the award, that's a different discussion.

so you believe there should be a hard cut off?

Why not? Lots of rate stat season leaders i.e. NBA ppg, MLB batting average etc. have a minimum games played / plate appearances qualifier. I like it.