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Media and casuals almost always say winning/playoff performance is the end all be all for deciding which players are the best.
Well Jokic's playoff resume is head and shoulders above what Embiid has done. It makes zero sense...Jokic's playoff numbers are better...he's gone farther in the post season...like why...why is this even a debate. Jokic is clearly the best Center in the world and it's driving me insane that so many people still believe Embiid is better. Skip Bayless can't even remember his name Why can't Jokic get a fair shake..

Career Playoff stats

Joel Embiid: 22.3 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 2.9 APG, 3.7 TO 43 FG%, 28 3P%

Nikola Jokic: 24.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.9 APG, 3.0 TO 51 FG%, 41 3P%

Denver vs Philadelphia
marketable
But I got to mention that this topic has beaten time and time again, its annoying honestly to see this at daily level.

Because he plays something called defense.

Ill take Joel over Jokic

I'd take the Joker over Embiid he's healthier.
Joel is hurt too much.

imagine calling people casuals and using skip bayless as your justification.

Embiid plays defense, but Philly only conceded 102.8ppg during Embiid's 10 game absence.
Not sure what the stats would be if Embiid missed the whole season, but I doubt they'd be any worse than Philly (currently) conceding 108.4ppg.

Because there are two sides of the court and Defense is nearly as important as Offense at the Center position.

I'm not sure why jokic fans find it insulting as if it's not close either way

It's pretty neck and neck. Even though I prefer Jokic more, I won't be offended to if someone think Embiid is better.

knuckles862 wrote:I'm not sure why jokic fans find it insulting as if it's not close either way

Because it's not... if Jokic's playoff performances were this bad and he couldn't get out of the 2nd round...without question he would be labeled a fake superstar. That's just the truth...

2019 elimination games vs. Toronto....
Game 6:
Simmons 21 points, 8 rebounds, 6 assists, 0 turnovers
Embiid 17 points, 5-14 field, 12 rebounds, 5 turnovers
Game 7:
Simmons 13 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks
Embiid 21 points, 6-18 field, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks

2018 elimination games vs. Boston....
Game 4:
Simmons 19 points, 13 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals
Embiid 15 points, 6-15 field, 12 rebounds, 0 steals/blocks
Game 5:
Simmons 18 points, 8 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 block
Embiid 27 points, 9-18 field, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks

Oh look, another one of these.

Rudy gobert better than both of them on both ends. Idk why hes not the frontrunner for mvp. most dunks in a season, defensive player, his rolling to the rim gives him playmaking, sets great screen assists. Hes way better than Nicole and Embum

youngthegiant wrote:Media and casuals almost always say winning/playoff performance is the end all be all for deciding which players are the best.
Well Jokic's playoff resume is head and shoulders above what Embiid has done. It makes zero sense...Jokic's playoff numbers are better...he's gone farther in the post season...like why...why is this even a debate. Jokic is clearly the best Center in the world and it's driving me insane that so many people still believe Embiid is better. Skip Bayless can't even remember his name Why can't Jokic get a fair shake..

Career Playoff stats]

Joel Embiid: 22.3 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 2.9 APG, 3.7 TO 43 FG%, 28 3P%

Nikola Jokic: 24.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 6.9 APG, 3.0TO 51 FG%, 41 3P%

The "he's gone farther in the post season" argument sounds great but look at it a different way - a tale of two jumpers that decided the fate of this narrative.

If Kawhi misses his miracle shot at the end of game 7 in 2019, there's a very real chance that Philly advances that series, a series in which Philly massively dominated in the minutes Joel was on the floor, and got destroyed in the minutes he sat. The Sixers were +90 in the minutes Embiid played against the Raptors and -109 in the minutes he sat. He played 45 minutes in game 7 and they were +10, and they were -12 in the less than 3 minutes he sat. Those stats you linked massively underrate the defensive impact difference between the players - the Sixers defense gave up only 95.7 points per 100 that postseason during his minutes. What more could he have done?

If Conley makes his miracle shot at the end of game 7 in 2020, Denver gets knocked out in round 1 in a series that the Nuggets got outscored in the minutes Jokic was on the floor. The Nuggets were actually outscored while Jokic was on the floor for that entire playoffs - they essentially lost during his minutes.

The fate of this narrative was decided for each by players on the other team. Hell, Embiid at least managed to get a good contest on Kawhi on the shot, whereas Jokic wasn't even on the floor for the Conley jumper. So you're telling me that if Kawhi misses and the Sixers advance, and Conley makes his shot and the Nuggets don't, you're suddenly going to give Embiid the edge...for something that wasn't even in his control?

The playoff argument isn't even reasonable. The Sixers are +7.0 with Embiid on the floor in the playoffs with +14.2 on/offs. The Nuggets are +1.2 with Jokic on the floor in the playoffs with +8.7 on/offs. The Sixers have won the Embiid playoff minutes by a bigger margin, and he's elevated them more when he's been off.

You're judging and penalizing Embiid individually for his lack of team success in the playoffs because the Sixers have gotten destroyed in the minutes that he's sat. That's pretty unreasonable.

To you, the difference between Jokic having a better playoff reputation than Embiid, rather than being seen as a playoff choker, is literally a Mike Conley jumper - consider that.

Well if we're talking about winning, either have won anything of note, so that's kind of a moot point.

For me though, it's pretty simple: Jokic is an elite offensive player, and a below-average defender. Embiid is a really good offensive player, and an elite defender. Center is the only position where both things probably matter equally. Therefore, gimme Embiid.

Dunno how you got that impression, there were several polls on this topic here throughout the season and I think Jokic won every time.

Despite Jokic scoring more I think that's more a function of their teams. Jokic is the better shooter but Embiid is a good shooter and is unstoppable within 10 feet. Embiid is also clearly the better defender and rim protector. The flip side is Jokic has everything. He might end up being the best passing big ever, while still having top 5 rebounds and his scoring so far has been super clutch.

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youngthegiant wrote:

knuckles862 wrote:I'm not sure why jokic fans find it insulting as if it's not close either way

Because it's not... if Jokic's playoff performances were this bad and he couldn't get out of the 2nd round...without question he would be labeled a fake superstar. That's just the truth...

I guess we will see who gets further this year

Embiid is a great player but even when healthy i dont trust his offensive game to translate to the playoffs.
He is is skilled but is also getting babied by the refs and gets an easy whistle on contact he initiates. Once the playoffs start and refs swallow their whistles his efficiency will take a big dip.

His defense is good but is also being bolstered by playing on a really good defensive team.
Would he be great at defense on a bad defensive team where he also has to carry a big offensive load? I doubt it, especially considering his durability issues.

Give me Jokic any time.