Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace)

Moderators: jamaalstar21, infinite11285, BombsquadSammy, ken6199, Domejandro, bwgood77, Dirk, zimpy27, KingDavid

User avatar
Scalabrine
RealGM
Posts: 15,334
And1: 5,516
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
Location: NorCal
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#21 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:08 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits
Go Knicks!
ellobo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,464
And1: 2,457
Joined: Aug 06, 2017

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#22 » by ellobo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:29 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


Reasons known only to Thibs and God.

And I'm not so sure about God.

BTW, the Knicks are also 17-7 when Frank Ntilikina plays.
Just because it happened to you, doesn't make it interesting.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Yesterday I was lying; today I'm telling the truth.
User avatar
iLLmatic860
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,097
And1: 5,826
Joined: Jan 23, 2013
Location: 860 CT
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#23 » by iLLmatic860 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:34 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.

Yes Randle having a great month but Rose leadership and decision making late in games have been crucial
User avatar
BodieB
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,842
And1: 1,866
Joined: Mar 31, 2011
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#24 » by BodieB » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:46 pm

He's going to be extremely valuable in the playoffs with his big game experience and leadership.
KnicksGadfly
General Manager
Posts: 8,874
And1: 5,292
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Location: Rent Free
   

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#25 » by KnicksGadfly » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:48 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Nice but what does that have to do with Elfrid
Commander of the Dallas Tank!

The mission: to end false narratives about the Knicks

Example of Fake Narratives:
-The Melo era should be celebrated
-Phil Jackson was a good GM
User avatar
OKCfanSinceSGA
RealGM
Posts: 22,895
And1: 22,703
Joined: Sep 19, 2015
 

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#26 » by OKCfanSinceSGA » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:55 pm

Knicks in general are the NBA’s highest differential since all star weekend. Incredible stat to me. They aren’t going to be an easy 1st round exit.
“This kid reminds me of a 6-6 Chris Paul. He wants to win everything.”

Olin Simplis- SGA’s trainer.
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,373
And1: 12,174
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#27 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:01 pm

GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.
Image
User avatar
Capn'O
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 62,528
And1: 56,460
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Let's Stop and Get A Hot Dog
 

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#28 » by Capn'O » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:03 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


Bingo. Rose has simply provided competent point guard play.
BAF Clippers
PG: SGA Conley Chiozza
SG: KCP Melton Bacon
SF: Middleton THT
PF: DFS Bjelica Toliver
C: Vuc Nurkic Holmes

RIP Mags :beer:
"Greatness wasn't worth anything if you couldn't share it."-Kobe
User avatar
Scalabrine
RealGM
Posts: 15,334
And1: 5,516
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
Location: NorCal
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#29 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.
Go Knicks!
ATRAIN53
Head Coach
Posts: 6,717
And1: 2,091
Joined: Dec 14, 2007
Location: Chicago

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#30 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:35 pm

Interesting.

I'm hopeful his knees hold up and we get to see some vintage playoff D Rose

a Bulls V Knicks play-in game or playoff series would be insane.
You know the networks want that to happen.
Ritzo
Senior
Posts: 626
And1: 763
Joined: Dec 06, 2016
 

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#31 » by Ritzo » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:57 pm

I really thought that Rose career was finished when he joined LeBron in Cleveland. I'm glad he's doing great and didn't give up, same with Thibs who didn't give up on Rose
User avatar
Drakeem
Pro Prospect
Posts: 854
And1: 696
Joined: Oct 25, 2009
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#32 » by Drakeem » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:03 pm

Considering the only reason Rose is elevating their play this much is bc every other option is simply below average, if the Pelicans really want to not sign Lonzo, I hope he goes to the Knicks. Makes a lot of sense for both sides, and New York would finally have a solid, young core.
balleramil wrote:My Summer by Jarrett Jack

The one thing you don't know about our team is...
At practice we play freeze tag
User avatar
Chanel Bomber
General Manager
Posts: 8,373
And1: 12,174
Joined: Sep 20, 2018
 

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#33 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:47 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
GSP wrote:3 losses @ Miami, @ Brooklyn and @ Boston were each by only 2pts too....

Hes been one of the biggest midseason acquisitions in the league. Great to see a former Mvp reinvent his game and still be a really good overall player that plays both ends even in a reduced role from his prime. Also overcame nasty false allegations from a bitter dusty ex which mustve taken a big toll on him off court

Hes been one of the premier players in the league coming off the bench for years now and now were seeing him still have that impact on a playoff team pushing them to even further heights

Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.

Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.
Image
User avatar
Scalabrine
RealGM
Posts: 15,334
And1: 5,516
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
Location: NorCal
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#34 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Rose has been excellent in his role.

But he's still an average or mediocre point guard big picture.

What this shows is how much Elfrid Payton is actually holding the Knicks back.

Decent point guard play unlocks the talents of Randle and RJ, who have both improved massively since last season. Thibs has also attributed the right roles to the role players, so the pieces fit. This team is more talented than we assumed, in addition to the fact that it's playing better than the sum of its parts.


If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.

Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.


I mean, yeah, I agree with that, I was just trying to throw him some sort of bone.

What stats are you using out of curiosity?
Go Knicks!
LouisLitt
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,692
And1: 2,954
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#35 » by LouisLitt » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Why haven't the Knicks put him in the starting lineup over Payton?


If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits


You're just adding to my point.

The person is asking why Rose isn't starting because the title of this thread makes it seem like he's the main reason they've been playing well as of late.
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 22,856
And1: 2,759
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#36 » by bstein14 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:38 pm

He is still really solid and was good for Detroit offensively. He's a liability on defense.

I was surprised that Detroit couldn't get a late first rounder for him. He might be the addition that wins them a playoff series this year.
User avatar
SK21209
Analyst
Posts: 3,421
And1: 3,685
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
   

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#37 » by SK21209 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:42 pm

Man, if it had been the Knicks rather than the Suns who traded for CP3 in the offseason, they could be having the season the Suns are having right now. I've had a lot of fun watching the Knicks in this stretch.
cool007
RealGM
Posts: 16,510
And1: 2,058
Joined: Feb 03, 2005

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#38 » by cool007 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:42 pm

I was saying it when the trade happened that bringing in Rose will let all knicks players know that they are trying to make the playoffs and also changed the whole attitude. Also having that playoff experience and knowing Thibs system is HUGE.

Just watch in the playoffs, Rose is going to be a HUGE problem for the other team and his leadership is very underrated. Just ask all of his former teammates and they would tell you how great of a leader Rose was.

I am definitely rooting for Rose and Knicks this year - even though not a Knicks fan. I simply love that team though.

I am so jealous that Bulls didn't bring Thibs back. I really don't like Billy Donovan as Bulls head coach - just no identity.
User avatar
Edrees
RealGM
Posts: 13,636
And1: 8,337
Joined: May 12, 2009
Contact:
         

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#39 » by Edrees » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:33 pm

Great to see that the injuries didn't ruin his career completely. Most players with that type of injury history are out of the league. He's really worked his butt off to be a solid starter/elite bench player type of player.
User avatar
Scalabrine
RealGM
Posts: 15,334
And1: 5,516
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
Location: NorCal
     

Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#40 » by Scalabrine » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:42 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits


You're just adding to my point.

The person is asking why Rose isn't starting because the title of this thread makes it seem like he's the main reason they've been playing well as of late.


I was commenting on you saying it was Randle who's having a great month, when it's actually been multiple players that have played above their season averages. Rose has been better than Payton and he has been closing most of our games. I think he's been great coming in with Quickley and Toppin. He gets them organized and looks for them more than Payton does and he gives the 2nd unit a consistent scoring threat that the first unit doesnt necessarily need off the bat when RJ and Randle are on the floor together. Thibs likes to play his units together, so this is especially important.
Go Knicks!

Return to The General Board