Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace)

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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#41 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:51 pm

LouisLitt wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
LouisLitt wrote:
If you actually watch the games, he's really not doing anything special.

It's Randle who's having a great month.


Multiple players are having great months.

Over the the month of April:
Rose 16/3/3 on 50/36/87 shooting splits
RJ 18/4/3 on 47/50/80 shooting splits.
Bullock 14/3/2 on 48/44/100 shooting splits


You're just adding to my point.

The person is asking why Rose isn't starting because the title of this thread makes it seem like he's the main reason they've been playing well as of late.


Dude, I just asked a question since I don't want many Knick games. It had nothing to do with me saying Rose is the franchise player lol. I do think Rose is better than Payton though.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#42 » by Clyde Frazier » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:51 pm

I was fine with the trade given what we gave up, but he's been far more valuable than anyone could've expected. Bought into his role perfectly which is a huge part of it. The exact opposite of his first stint here.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#43 » by Winsome Gerbil » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:52 pm

A message from Thibs to every realgmer who panned his hire:

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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#44 » by Poohdini1 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:57 pm

He never gave up when it would've been easy to with 100s of millions in the bank and more accolades than many many players before him. Love to see it.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#45 » by Shock Defeat » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:46 pm

D-Rose is proving that if he never got hurt this guy was on track to be a top 5 PG of all time.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#46 » by Winsome Gerbil » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:53 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:D-Rose is proving that if he never got hurt this guy was on track to be a top 5 PG of all time.

Uh... not sure how that tracks. But he was obviously a major talent who got cut down. Has happened far too often.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#47 » by Capn'O » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:31 pm

I always wondered if the orbital affected him long term more than was let on. When the Knicks had him a few years back he actually looked more spry out there but was almost unplayable because he played like he had blinders on. This year his court vision has been very good and he's really looking for the pass. Maybe he's just more comfortable with Thibs :dontknow:
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#48 » by MotownMadness » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:37 pm

Been trying to tell you guys he can still ball. He's a beast scoring at the rim.

Not really a true PG or anything so he's perfect to just come in and score off the bench and still give you 18-20 ppg.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#49 » by Shock Defeat » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:53 pm

Winsome Gerbil wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:D-Rose is proving that if he never got hurt this guy was on track to be a top 5 PG of all time.

Uh... not sure how that tracks. But he was obviously a major talent who got cut down. Has happened far too often.

Outside of Magic who is #1, Rose won an MVP in his 3rd season, at 22 years old. I see no reason why he couldn't be up there with Curry, Nash, CP3 etc. Guys have been talked about as top 5 PGs
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#50 » by Chanel Bomber » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:18 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
If we had an average starting point guard in the FVV, Brogdon, Murray, even Lonzo Ball, this team everyone would be saying this team is legit. Payton is a good defensive guard, but offensively he does nothing, and often tries to do too much. We're a much better team when IQ/Rose are on the court.

Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.


I mean, yeah, I agree with that, I was just trying to throw him some sort of bone.

What stats are you using out of curiosity?

Defensive impact is hard to measure and I don't think there's any statistic that accurately and consistently captures it.

Here's my thinking though.

LeFraud Payton has the worst defensive rating on the team at 110.9. Considering he shares most of his minutes with the starters, the fact that he's dead last shows how much worse than them he is defensively comparatively speaking. It's not particularly close either, and considering the Knicks are a good defensive team, it's not like his defensive rating is the byproduct of playing alongside bad defenders that cost him. He is the one holding them back.

The Knicks are 4th in the league in defensive rating at 107.8. They drop to 11th when Payton plays.

In terms of defensive on/off, opposing teams outscore the Knicks by +6.7 points per 100 possessions when he's on the court vs off. It's a lot. Consider this, Payton plays most of his minutes with Randle and RJ, right? Well, opposing teams score 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when Randle is on the court, and "only" (comparatively speaking) +1.7 when RJ is on the court.

I think all these numbers confirm the eye test, which really matters when it comes to evaluating defense imo.

Anyway, that's all I got personally.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#51 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:32 am

Rose hasn't looked bad to me physically in a long long time. I think despite it being physical injuries, I think his confidence and skill level took bigger hits than his athleticism did, and it took him some time to rebuild it over the years. Glad to see him doing well.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#52 » by Scalabrine » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:50 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Neither the stats nor the eye test show he's a good defender, although he does have stretches of nice defensive play. He generally lacks discipline and he just dies on every screen.


I mean, yeah, I agree with that, I was just trying to throw him some sort of bone.

What stats are you using out of curiosity?

Defensive impact is hard to measure and I don't think there's any statistic that accurately and consistently captures it.

Here's my thinking though.

LeFraud Payton has the worst defensive rating on the team at 110.9. Considering he shares most of his minutes with the starters, the fact that he's dead last shows how much worse than them he is defensively comparatively speaking. It's not particularly close either, and considering the Knicks are a good defensive team, it's not like his defensive rating is the byproduct of playing alongside bad defenders that cost him. He is the one holding them back.

The Knicks are 4th in the league in defensive rating at 107.8. They drop to 11th when Payton plays.

In terms of defensive on/off, opposing teams outscore the Knicks by +6.7 points per 100 possessions when he's on the court vs off. It's a lot. Consider this, Payton plays most of his minutes with Randle and RJ, right? Well, opposing teams score 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when Randle is on the court, and "only" (comparatively speaking) +1.7 when RJ is on the court.

I think all these numbers confirm the eye test, which really matters when it comes to evaluating defense imo.

Anyway, that's all I got personally.


Very valid points and I agree with all of it (aside from the nickname, which is a stretch...Elfraud Payton was right there and you chose LeFraud???). He's had his moments this year and he does have the size and speed to be able to switch onto bigger guards but there isn't a single starting point guard in the league that I would take him over. Several backups and two guards that I'd rather start at point guard than him too. He's probably outside the Top 40 if I made a list. Fine for a backup point guard, but I don't even know if he'd be a rotation player on some teams.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#53 » by Kent » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:54 am

FreeSpiritNY wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Time to change your display pic lol


Only if the Knicks actually make the playoffs :)


I can't hear you from down there Image

are you a pro tanker


Knicks fans can boast all they want.

They've waited long enough.

They deserve this change in fortune.

Amazing to see what D Rose has done. Very admirable.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#54 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:35 am

Scalabrine wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
I mean, yeah, I agree with that, I was just trying to throw him some sort of bone.

What stats are you using out of curiosity?

Defensive impact is hard to measure and I don't think there's any statistic that accurately and consistently captures it.

Here's my thinking though.

LeFraud Payton has the worst defensive rating on the team at 110.9. Considering he shares most of his minutes with the starters, the fact that he's dead last shows how much worse than them he is defensively comparatively speaking. It's not particularly close either, and considering the Knicks are a good defensive team, it's not like his defensive rating is the byproduct of playing alongside bad defenders that cost him. He is the one holding them back.

The Knicks are 4th in the league in defensive rating at 107.8. They drop to 11th when Payton plays.

In terms of defensive on/off, opposing teams outscore the Knicks by +6.7 points per 100 possessions when he's on the court vs off. It's a lot. Consider this, Payton plays most of his minutes with Randle and RJ, right? Well, opposing teams score 1.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when Randle is on the court, and "only" (comparatively speaking) +1.7 when RJ is on the court.

I think all these numbers confirm the eye test, which really matters when it comes to evaluating defense imo.

Anyway, that's all I got personally.


Very valid points and I agree with all of it (aside from the nickname, which is a stretch...Elfraud Payton was right there and you chose LeFraud???). He's had his moments this year and he does have the size and speed to be able to switch onto bigger guards but there isn't a single starting point guard in the league that I would take him over. Several backups and two guards that I'd rather start at point guard than him too. He's probably outside the Top 40 if I made a list. Fine for a backup point guard, but I don't even know if he'd be a rotation player on some teams.

I used Elfraud for over a year and felt I needed to switch it up a little. And then I thought comparing Payton to LeBron in any way was hilarious :lol: I find it even more disrespectful lol.

Otherwise I echo your sentiment.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#55 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:11 am

The other DA y I found a quarter and decided tovflip it 24 times, and it was heads seventeen times. I thought what a huge acquisition to myself.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#56 » by GSP » Yesterday 3:50 am

21-8..... just outplayed Ja Morant badly

Knicks are gonna win a playoff series this year.....
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#57 » by BugginOut » Yesterday 4:29 am

D-Rose needs to be in the 6MOY conversation. No one is having as much as an impact as he is off the bench for the Knicks.
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#58 » by FreeSpiritNY » Yesterday 4:59 am

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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#59 » by cgf » Yesterday 9:45 pm

So verno, you "read" that the knicks were 21-8 since getting Rose huh...;-)
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Re: Knicks are 17-7 when Rose plays (58 win pace) 

Post#60 » by matt6715 » Yesterday 9:53 pm

Knicks gotta cash in those assets and win NOW

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