Is AD the Neymar of Basketball

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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#21 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon May 3, 2021 11:55 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Neymar is far greater at his sport than AD is at his.

Neymar is among the few queens on the sport's chessboard. He's a brilliant playmaker, who was only overshadowed by arguably two of the five greatest players ever sharing his timeline.

AD isn't a dominant NBA player. He couldn't lead a team anywhere. He's arguably the greatest #2 option however. He's more Benzema than Neymar tbh.

A lot of people thought AD was the 2nd best playe in the NBA last year, so he's quite a bit more highly rated than what you think. He's certainly a "queen of the chessboard".

Yet I never considered him to be that, and I can only think and speak for myself.

I always found the idea that AD was a top 5 player to be asinine.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#22 » by HeartBreakKid » Yesterday 12:00 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Neymar is far greater at his sport than AD is at his.

Neymar is among the few queens on the sport's chessboard. He's a brilliant playmaker, who was only overshadowed by arguably two of the five greatest players ever sharing his timeline.

AD isn't a dominant NBA player. He couldn't lead a team anywhere. He's arguably the greatest #2 option however. He's more Benzema than Neymar tbh.

A lot of people thought AD was the 2nd best playe in the NBA last year, so he's quite a bit more highly rated than what you think. He's certainly a "queen of the chessboard".

Yet I never considered him to be that, and I can only think and speak for myself.

I always found the idea that AD was a top 5 player to be asinine.


I mean is it...? If he's not a top 5 guy then hes....a top ten guy. Not really a huge world of difference. You say he never lead his team to anything but he does have a ring. If your argument is that he wasn't the best player on a championship team, then neither was Neymar. Maybe you're talking about PSG's latest run, then fair enough I suppose - though COVID affected football much heavier than the NBA.

Davis was never given a contending team. He was given a first round caliber team, and he made it to the 2nd round. Can't really ask him to do much more then what he had in New Orleans.

Neymar is/was better at his sport than Davis but I don't know about "FAR" better. The only way you can be FAR better at Davis is by being the best at your sport basically, which Neymar is certainly not.


I actually did not have Davis as a top 5 player last year either. But it's not like he's not on their level, there just happens to be a clot of players at the top currently.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#23 » by Pelon chingon » Yesterday 12:13 am

Anytime I hear Neymar's name I automatically think about the time Ochoa was in the zone of zones. Lol.

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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#24 » by Chanel Bomber » Yesterday 12:19 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:A lot of people thought AD was the 2nd best playe in the NBA last year, so he's quite a bit more highly rated than what you think. He's certainly a "queen of the chessboard".

Yet I never considered him to be that, and I can only think and speak for myself.

I always found the idea that AD was a top 5 player to be asinine.


I mean is it...? If he's not a top 5 guy then hes....a top ten guy. Not really a huge world of difference. You say he never lead his team to anything but he does have a ring. If your argument is that he wasn't the best player on a championship team, then neither was Neymar. Maybe you're talking about PSG's latest run, then fair enough I suppose - though COVID affected football much heavier than the NBA.

Davis was never given a contending team. He was given a first round caliber team, and he made it to the 2nd round. Can't really ask him to do much more then what he had in New Orleans.

Neymar is/was better at his sport than Davis but I don't know about "FAR" better. The only way you can be FAR better at Davis is by being the best at your sport basically, which Neymar is certainly not.


I actually did not have Davis as a top 5 player last year either. But it's not like he's not on their level, there just happens to be a clot of players at the top currently.

For me there is a world of difference, because it's about role. The conversation is often about stats, or position, but really what separates players is their ability to be efficient in different roles.

When I say queen on the chessboard, I refer to the role of engine. The driver of a team offensively. It can take the form of an post-up/face-up isolation monster like Dirk, or a unstoppable driving force like LeBron, or a unpredictable pull-up demon like Curry (I'm aware I'm oversimplifying their games but you get the point)... What they have in common is that the offense runs through them or benefits greatly from their gravity. They make defenses collapse.

AD doesn't do that. He's not a creator, he's finisher.

I consider Neymar to be far better because he's an engine. AD isn't. Forget leading to a championship, AD's never led a team to pretender status, let alone contender status. But he's an all-time great as well in the role that best suits him. There's nothing wrong with being an elite 2nd option on a championship team.

It's harder to judge individual soccer players individually by the success of their team because they share the pitch with 10 other players. Although team success is obviously still very much relevant. It just can't be evaluated by the same standards is my point.

PS: Put it this way, I think Neymar is far better than AD in this role of offensive engine (the best player on a championship team argument). But AD is elite as a second option. So if you consider AD in the role he's best suited for (as he is in LA playing with LeBron), then the gap between the two players isn't as wide.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#25 » by cgf » Yesterday 12:28 am

Easy to hate on as he is, Neymar is on another level than AD. Neymar has been the best player on the planet not named Messi, AD just hasn't been that good yet.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#26 » by Shock Defeat » Yesterday 1:14 am

IgorK wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Equivalent talent in their sport, hyped from a young age, top 5 players but feels like haven't fulfilled their full potential, a bit injury prone, overshadowed by GOATs but have also won big, didn't dominate their own gen (Giannis, Embiid, Hazard, Debruyne etc) might soon get eclipsed by the next gen (Zion, Luka, Haaland, Mbappe)


AD won a ring. He's fulfilled his potential.

as the second option. I think people expected AD to be good enough to win a ring as the best player on his team, but he has proven that he is only a 2nd fiddle type player.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#27 » by jlokine » Yesterday 1:16 am

EArl wrote:
jlokine wrote:you cant even compare.. 1 player's impact in soccer/football is much less compared to basketball..

if AD was truly top 5, pelicans would've had more success..

you cant stick messi or neymar into a team destined for relegation and expect them to be a top 4 team in any football league.

A big reason is that there's more players compared to basketball playing at once. Football is arguably more of a team sport than basketball.



i think that's obvious.. hence, you cant compare AD and Neymar and how they impact the game for their team.. but if AD was a top 5 player, you can plop him into a nonplayoff team and they should be able to compete for a playoff spot, even if not top 4 in the conference, no problem.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#28 » by EasternHeretic » Yesterday 3:47 am

IgorK wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Equivalent talent in their sport, hyped from a young age, top 5 players but feels like haven't fulfilled their full potential, a bit injury prone, overshadowed by GOATs but have also won big, didn't dominate their own gen (Giannis, Embiid, Hazard, Debruyne etc) might soon get eclipsed by the next gen (Zion, Luka, Haaland, Mbappe)


AD won a ring. He's fulfilled his potential.

he had GOAT hype
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#29 » by Impuniti » Yesterday 4:32 am

No. Neymar talent wise is top 3 in football. He's dominated and taken over games far more than AD. AD needs an elite playmaker to win a wing, Neymar doesn't.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#30 » by RafStone » Yesterday 5:29 am

Shock Defeat wrote:
IgorK wrote:
EasternHeretic wrote:Equivalent talent in their sport, hyped from a young age, top 5 players but feels like haven't fulfilled their full potential, a bit injury prone, overshadowed by GOATs but have also won big, didn't dominate their own gen (Giannis, Embiid, Hazard, Debruyne etc) might soon get eclipsed by the next gen (Zion, Luka, Haaland, Mbappe)


AD won a ring. He's fulfilled his potential.

as the second option. I think people expected AD to be good enough to win a ring as the best player on his team, but he has proven that he is only a 2nd fiddle type player.



I'm not sure I buy all that, its more nuanced. I do think ad isn't a 1A player, like Patrick ewing, but at the same time he is a HOF producer and a game changer, particularly at the defensive end which is harder to manage.

Lebron is one of the GOATs of all time, playing 2nd fiddle to him didn't change Dwade's as dwade won one and showed it. But AD put up 27 and 10, highly efficient, dominated on Defense and they also don't win the title without him.

Thats just the thing, Lebron dominated individually for 7 years, didn't close, he left and got some talent and hof team they won. MJ dominated similarly about 7 years, was known as only a stat guy, until the right cohesion/surrounding, some HOF talent came around and they made history. Kobe, laker legend, also like the others ,knew it too when he demanded a trade or talent, until he got a hof cast and won a ring. Cohesion matters, glue guys matter, so much that can't be measured or quantified in culture, development staff, all those things we don't see matter.

Sadly this ESPN/TMZ narrative of taking over as if hoops is 1-1,when you can go back to all the above rings and see Paxon, Kerr, Fisher, so on make vital plays, shots that aren't headliners. you need the right cast and at the championship role, you don't go straight hero, you need the players around you to work together, hit big shots and more than anything play defense. LEbron is a goat, he gives everyoen a chance.

AD anchored that defense last year and they don't have a ring without him. He made his adjustments, still put up huge numbers, and did what you need to in terms of focusing on D, finding the right moments, and won the ring. Thats all that matters. I'd argue Pelicans wasted his talent, cheaped out aroudn him like Houston did Harden. These guys work their entire lives and the cullmination of that work goes by very fast and with a simplistic very harsh narrative that follows them, there are some managers that don't make the headlines, lot of role palyers etc etc all make a difference, a detailed difference bc the margins of basketball wins in the playoffs are very, very close and history would be different with the shots mentioned above, every single year.

So I see him as a Pat Ewing. I don't think hes the greatest, but he is a massively skilled talent and game changer, at the same time as a big in the nba the way its played, you need someone to create for you, you need spacing as well, and he doesn't have a wide asernal on ofefnse but hes also still effective, especially on Defense, half the damn game.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#31 » by Balls Deep » Yesterday 6:19 am

Neymar is over rated AF on here. Dude played second fiddle at Barca and is now racking up trophies in a farmers league while still being second best on his team. Comparing AD to Neymar is very reasonable.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#32 » by HeartBreakKid » Yesterday 6:29 am

jlokine wrote:
EArl wrote:
jlokine wrote:you cant even compare.. 1 player's impact in soccer/football is much less compared to basketball..

if AD was truly top 5, pelicans would've had more success..

you cant stick messi or neymar into a team destined for relegation and expect them to be a top 4 team in any football league.

A big reason is that there's more players compared to basketball playing at once. Football is arguably more of a team sport than basketball.



i think that's obvious.. hence, you cant compare AD and Neymar and how they impact the game for their team.. but if AD was a top 5 player, you can plop him into a nonplayoff team and they should be able to compete for a playoff spot, even if not top 4 in the conference, no problem.

Well, for one Anthony Davis did make the playoffs before on a nonplayoff roster. They haven't made the playoffs since he left.

Two, a lot of top 5 players can't make the playoffs if you plop them on a bad team. Heck, Steph Curry is having that problem right now. Kareem Abdul-Jabar was probably the best player in the league and he still missed the playoffs.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#33 » by Kurtz » Yesterday 6:31 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:Neymar is far greater at his sport than AD is at his.

Neymar is among the few queens on the sport's chessboard. He's a brilliant playmaker, who was only overshadowed by arguably two of the five greatest players ever sharing his timeline.

AD isn't a dominant NBA player. He couldn't lead a team anywhere. He's arguably the greatest #2 option however. He's more Benzema than Neymar tbh.


Is he even the best player on his own team though?
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#34 » by Marty_Budda » Yesterday 6:34 am

Impuniti wrote:No. Neymar talent wise is top 3 in football. He's dominated and taken over games far more than AD. AD needs an elite playmaker to win a wing, Neymar doesn't.


I mean...neymars only champions league title is playing with Messi, xavi, iniesta and Suarez. Three of those guys are literally some of the greatest playmakers to ever play. Unless you consider winning the French farmers league with psg to be a considerable achievement.

Neymar is top 3 in the world based off talent alone for sure. However he’s always injured. The past 4 seasons for psg he has played 30, 28,27 and currently this season 26 games so far. Kinda hard to put someone top 5 in his sport when he plays so few games every year.

Like I said, extremely talented and very exciting to watch. But also super overrated based off the opinions on this thread.

I’d actually consider Neymar to be far more similar to Kyrie than AD however.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#35 » by stormi » Yesterday 6:36 am

Disrespectful to Neymar
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#36 » by Impuniti » Yesterday 6:39 am

Marty_Budda wrote:
Impuniti wrote:No. Neymar talent wise is top 3 in football. He's dominated and taken over games far more than AD. AD needs an elite playmaker to win a wing, Neymar doesn't.


I mean...neymars only champions league title is playing with Messi, xavi, iniesta and Suarez. Three of those guys are literally some of the greatest playmakers to ever play. Unless you consider winning the French farmers league with psg to be a considerable achievement.

Neymar is top 3 in the world based off talent alone for sure. However he’s always injured. The past 4 seasons for psg he has played 30, 28,27 and currently this season 26 games so far. Kinda hard to put someone top 5 in his sport when he plays so few games every year.

Like I said, extremely talented and very exciting to watch. But also super overrated based off the opinions on this thread.

Ok and? Neymar is an elite playmaker and can run the show. He carried PSG to their first ever finals last year. Was trash in the final, but his run was amazing. He was also a massive, massive reason on why Barca won the title that year. Have been choking merchants ever since he left.

It works both ways.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#37 » by Impuniti » Yesterday 6:40 am

Kurtz wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Neymar is far greater at his sport than AD is at his.

Neymar is among the few queens on the sport's chessboard. He's a brilliant playmaker, who was only overshadowed by arguably two of the five greatest players ever sharing his timeline.

AD isn't a dominant NBA player. He couldn't lead a team anywhere. He's arguably the greatest #2 option however. He's more Benzema than Neymar tbh.


Is he even the best player on his own team though?

Neymar is 100% better than Mbappe, Mbappe however is a more valuable player because he's a tank. He won't get injured, while Neymar is one of the most injury prone world class players in the world.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#38 » by Raps in 4 » Yesterday 6:46 am

That's not a bad comparison. They're similarly immature and similarly talented.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#39 » by Marty_Budda » Yesterday 6:46 am

Impuniti wrote:
Marty_Budda wrote:
Impuniti wrote:No. Neymar talent wise is top 3 in football. He's dominated and taken over games far more than AD. AD needs an elite playmaker to win a wing, Neymar doesn't.


I mean...neymars only champions league title is playing with Messi, xavi, iniesta and Suarez. Three of those guys are literally some of the greatest playmakers to ever play. Unless you consider winning the French farmers league with psg to be a considerable achievement.

Neymar is top 3 in the world based off talent alone for sure. However he’s always injured. The past 4 seasons for psg he has played 30, 28,27 and currently this season 26 games so far. Kinda hard to put someone top 5 in his sport when he plays so few games every year.

Like I said, extremely talented and very exciting to watch. But also super overrated based off the opinions on this thread.

Ok and? Neymar is an elite playmaker and can run the show. He carried PSG to their first ever finals last year. Was trash in the final, but his run was amazing. He was also a massive, massive reason on why Barca won the title that year. Have been choking merchants ever since he left.

It works both ways.


Of course it works both ways. And of course Neymar was a huge part in Barca winning the champions league. But AD was also a big part in the lakers winning the title last year.

You said Neymar can win a title without elite playmakers and I pointed out that he hasn’t proven that to be true yet. Maybe he will this year. Making the final is not the same as winning it.

Out of 35 games PSG have played ln ligue 1 this year, Neymar has only played in 15 of those and pitched in with 7 goals and 4 assists. Psg are on the verge of not even winning their domestic league as a result. He played 15 domestic league games last year and 17 the year before that.

You can’t put someone top 5 in their sport that doesn’t play dude. If he played 40+ games in all competitions year round then yes, he’d be right there.
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Re: Is AD the Neymar of Basketball 

Post#40 » by God Squad » Yesterday 9:50 am

I dont even watch soccer (aside from Worldcup sometimes) and I know Neymar (woman love him).

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